1981 Type 1 Jeff

anoldgoat

I received a 1981 set today, all the coins are type 1, but the Jeff is so wide open. My type 2's are not this wide open. Can I get your opinions? Pic attached.


Thanks, mike

richbeat

I have a hard time telling the difference between the two from scans, but I think it looks like you have a Type 2 there. Frattlaw says there is a third type (unrecognized) that he has noticed, different from Type 1 and Type 2. Maybe you have the third one.

anoldgoat

Finally got the QX3 eorking on my XP machine. Here is a much better pic.

1956Quarter

That definitely looks like a Type 2. The S tails are circular and large with the insides being perfect circles. The Type 1 S has a more squashed look.

FrattLaw

That's exactly what I refer to as a Type III. It has some of the same design elements of both Type I and IIs. The top serif is bulbous, but the shape of the mintmark isn't flatten like a Type II. It's more symmetrical like a Type I. These are often what I see dealers trying to sell as Type IIs.

Again, I could be wrong, but it doesn't match the Type II Jefferson I have graded by PCGS.

Michael

Edited to add: 1956Quarter, you have them reversed. Type IIs are more squashed and Type Is are more circular.

Hoot

That's a T2 '81-S. The upper serif of the S overhangs the lower loop (your pic is rotated slightly counterclockwise). The interstices are wide open.

Hoot

FrattLaw

Okay here are some comparison pics from smalldollars.com


1981-S Type I


1981-S Type II


Yours -- which I call Type III

Yours looks similar to both, but matches neither exactly. I don't think PCGS would give it a Type II.

Michael

Hoot

I think you're right, Michael, about elements of both MMs, but I believe these also get T2 designations.

Hoot

FrattLaw

<< <i>but I believe these also get T2 designations. >>



Gee, I hope not. I could have cherrypicked these for years. I've never tried submitting a Type III though.

It might be worth a shot if it were a SBA, but even the Type II Jeffs don't command enough of a premium to really warrant the submission fee. Though I might try one and see what happens.

Michael

Hoot

I also don't bother with the T2 Jeffs, although I had a couple graded a few years ago, then sold them. They simply do not bring a premium, as they seem to be as common as T1s.

Hoot

Hoot

I just had a gander at the PCGS pop reports and there are about 4:1 T1:Ts Jeffs reported. Perhaps this ratio is accurate, but I doubt it. For example, the SBA T1:T2 ratio is about 3:1, and I've found those pieces much harder to find.

Hoot

FrattLaw

I think the pop reports have more to do with the value of the coin as opposed to its scarcity. I would imagine that more people would submit TypeII SBAs than Jeffs just because they command a premium.

I don't necessarily think that Type II SBAs are more scarce than the Jeffs, Roosies, JFKs or even Washington Quarters. I also think demand has a lot to do with price. Even the Dansco Album I have requires a Type II SBA, but the JFK album doesn't.

Michael

anoldgoat

Thank you for the input. I'll babel it Type III so as not to loose it.


FrattLaw - I'm including a pick that is not rotated in case you want to add it to your file.

Thanks again all,

Mike

Hoot

I have found vastly more T2 Jeffs and Kennedy halfs than any other denominations, but Jeffs are the most common. Third would be Roosies, then Lincolns, then SBAs. I have found only two full sets of T2s and all the rest were mixed.

Hoot

FrattLaw

<< <i>I have found only two full sets of T2s and all the rest were mixed. >>



I've only seen 2 full Type II sets as well. Most are mixed. I agree that you find more Jeffs, Roosies, Wash. & JFKs than SBAs and Lincolns. I just wish I knew for sure why that was.

You would think the dies to press to the largest coin, the JFK would have worn out first creating the need for the new die and the new mintmark type and also the greatest number examples. While the dies for the Jeff, Roosie, Washington, JFK & SBA would have lasted longer. I would also assume that the copper cent was the softest to strike and therefore the Type I dies might have actually lasted the longest before the new dies were put into action and thus the Lincolns should be far more rare than any other Type II examples.

Smalldollars.com indicates that the Type IIs were made at the end of the run of proof coins. I'm still not sure how the Type IIIs fit into production as well.

Someone who really understands the minting process might be able to shed more light on this. I am really only postulating as to the dies and wear.

Michael