Coins like this are SO undervalued....

coinlieutenant

Near gem half dime, more common date, original and so pretty up for auction at the ANR sale...

Tell me you wouldnt want one....

You cant bid on this one though...I am...

Edited to add:Notice that my "undervalued" statement only applies to the first half dime...

boiler78

John
I am kinda partial to this one Lot 291 in ANRs upcoming sale

coinlieutenant

I liked that one too...how about this one?

Look at the strike on that puppy!!

coinlieutenant

Good Lord!! This one too!!

Great Barbers...

coinlieutenant

This one...Oh my...it is so wild it makes me suspicious...

boiler78

I do like that 94-s quarter Whats the grade? too lazy to pop over to ANRs site

mgoodm3

1894 quarter is really nice.

RYK

Coins like this are SO undervalued....

My first reaction to your statement is to agree with you, but the more I think about it (the half dime, that is), the more I disagree.

A pre-Civil War coin with original and attractive toning in near-Gem condition is the type of coin that should make you salivate...on paper. The reality is, however, that you buy the coin, receive it in the mail, are impressed first that it is darker than you thought it would be and smaller than you remember them being (in fact, it takes a 5-7x glass to even look at it). But it's neat and old and original and you are happy that you bought it. You put in your box with your bigger and brighter coins. Everytime you pull it out to look at it, you think to yourself, "This is smaller and darker than I remember." It sits in your collection and over time, you wonder why you bought the blasted thing. Then, after a time, you decide to jettison it.

That was my exact experience with my MS-65 1857 half dime.

coinlieutenant

Yeah Robert....I see your point...BUT...

You are a gold snob!!!

stman

Interesting you mention the Barber Quarters. At the last Long Beach show I had the opportunity to view what I believe is the coin linked below.
While the image looks good, in person it had to be the nicest one I've seen. The colors were much more vibrant and the luster was very very flashy. You can see what a price he paid and the owner was laughing that he'd own it for a long time and didn't care. He did offer it to me for ONLY a few hundred more than he paid, but there was just no way.... I would have paid stupid money for it at a couple grand lower than he paid, but just couldn't (wouldn't) pay that kind of money. It is a dazzler IMO. Barber Quarter

RYK

You are a gold snob!!!

No, you are wrong, I am a general snob. But I do like seated coins. When my website is up, you will be surprised to know that I have more neat seated coins that you think I might. I would prefer to stick to 20c size and larger.

I have outlined exactly what happened with my former 1857 half dime:

lordmarcovan

Coinlieutenant, speaking of pretty toned half dimes, I am rather partial to that one I just bought from you!

coinguy89

Im defiently a fan of these kind of coins.

coinlieutenant

Im just a wannabe though Robertson...

You got a pic of that puppy.. I have forgotten what it looks like..

John

lordmarcovan

I don't have a pic of it at the moment. Has sort of pale orange/pink peripheral toning, as I recall. Dunno if it's totally original, but it looks like old album toning to me. It's a gorgeous little piece. What was it, uh... 1841, I think. Nice AU.

TahoeDale

Stman,

I also saw the 1892 Barber Quarter at Long Beach you are refering to in your post. It is the prettiest 1892 66 or maybe 67 I have ever viewed. But the dealer wants 67 money for it. And it is the most generic barber around(except for the 16-D, maybe).

But if the Barbers take off( for really beautiful coins) like the commens and the Morgans, then this coin is a buy.

coinlieutenant

I remember that one being pretty nice... I think I thought it was original. I told you that the shield nickel was cleaned...at least I should have

roadrunner

The ANR seated half dime doesn't quite do it for me. Maybe it's the silvery highlights on the figures that tell me the luster probably weakens across Miss Liberty. I love RYK's 1857 half dime but we are in the minority with desiring that kind of color. The surfaces look stunning but a bit soft on the head, and the always "too small for me" from most every potential buyer makes them tough to move.
I used to buy half dimes a lot, but finally just decided to stay with halves and quarters and dollars.

Someone told me a PCGS MS66 1850-0 half was going off on Teletrade tonight and I was surprised it was $18,700 with the juice.
May have been a deal closer to $10K. Coin is very mottled looking so who knows how it looks in person. A monster 66 would be worth $20K I guess. This date is around compared to the other early "O" mints, but it's still a nice date. I owned a colorful "gem" back in the 1980's (ex-Stacks Halsell sale circ 1984) that slabbed out as MS 64 in 1987 at PCGS. Funny thing is that when I owned it, PCGS graded it 64. I put it up for auction in 1988 knowing it was borderline 65 and it brought $6000 or so (not at 65 level of $10,000). The dealer who bought it complained to NGC when it only graded 64 for him. They then "regraded" it and made it a 65. The coin was wholesaled shortly thereafter for $12,000. Wasn't the 1989 market grand? If around today, the coin would grade 66 based on color.

roadrunner

stman

<< <i>Stman,

I also saw the 1892 Barber Quarter at Long Beach you are refering to in your post. It is the prettiest 1892 66 or maybe 67 I have ever viewed. But the dealer wants 67 money for it. And it is the most generic barber around(except for the 16-D, maybe).

But if the Barbers take off( for really beautiful coins) like the commens and the Morgans, then this coin is a buy. >>



Hi, actually when I was talking to the owner of the Barber Quarter, he mentioned there was one other guy that had the same look as I did about the coin and was thinking along the lines as myself. Glad you thought is was one of the prettiest you've seen as well. At least I know I'm not imagining it. I also felt the coin was very clean as it seems you did. I remember him telling me what he paid, and although I did believe him, I dug out the auction and he did "Step Up" for the coin.

I also know it's a very common year, but the first year of issue is a big plus for me. OK, let me dig his card out and call the guy up.

Android

Here's a beauty, but it's not for sale.

Android

Here's a half dime that's pretty cool.

Android

This one is kind of hard to describe...

Bustman

half dimes are undervalued because very few people want them. they are too small.
John,
That gorgeous 1868 is as nice and as real as they come. Just the type of coin dealers love to show as their "good stuff", and, of course, some rich dude already bought. If I am not mistaken I think it is a PCGS proof 68. That's probably why it looks unreal to you.... how many high end Seated Half dollars in proof 68 have you seen?

coinlieutenant

John,

I understand that half dimes are small and collector demand focuses on larger coins...I still think that they are undervalued. Of course that is my value system, not the majority of the market.

I also know that the 1868 is real...of course it is. I was just saying the color was so wild that I was suspicious of AT....
I was mostly joking and would have to see the coin.

It is a NGC PF68 btw.

John

Bustman

John,
I, too, was talking about the color when I said "real". The coin is not AT. I have seen that type of toning on many super grade uber coins.

coinlieutenant

Why would that toning pattern only show up on super grade coins? Is it scared of marks?

Bustman

That type of tone, meaning ZERO haze... crisp pure color that shows at just about any angle, is what helps to give that coin a grade of 68.

roadrunner

That toning pattern would have likely been cleaned away by someone in the past 136 years. The fact that it is still there and is probably not secondary toning would be one of the factors to getting a 68 grade. Very few cleaned coins make PF68.

I have an NGC PF67CAM 1866 half with that same general look. The centers of the coin are stark white like a bullseye, framed by off center toning swirls. If the coin were dipped it might become a DCAM. Not something I'd try. They are hard enough to find like this. Got the coin from Mike Storeim at the 2002 FUN show via the Evergreen Collection. The toning is definitely real.

roadrunner

lordmarcovan

<< <i>remember that one being pretty nice... I think I thought it was original. I told you that the shield nickel was cleaned...at least I should have >>



You did, and gave me a nice price, too. It's also a very pretty piece, even considering the cleaning.

coinlieutenant

First let me say that I am pretty sure that that seated half is NT...My original post was one of awe, not attack...

BUT, I dont think that you can always tell AT/NT 100% for sure off a scan, so unless you have seen it in person John, I dont think you can say that it is NT for sure.

Take these two for example...Both in NGC holders...I thought, and had someone check, that they were very questionable...

The toning pattern is very different and so are the colors, but I can guarantee that I wouldnt buy that seated half without seeing it in person or having someone I trust check it out.

coinlieutenant

John,

Again...joking...

Why are you being so pugnacious?

John

Bustman

John,
I'm not being pugnacious.....you asked!.

And actually, that seated half is one of the few coins I CAN tell from the pics that the tone is real. And thats because I have seen that exact type of tone many times on very high end coins.
Comparing the tone on that bust half to the seated half is night and day. That half could go either way ( at/nt).... and you would need to see THAT in person.

coinlieutenant

No prob...

I just was a little intersted why you said:

That's probably why it looks unreal to you.... how many high end Seated Half dollars in proof 68 have you seen?

Seemed to be a bit of a leftover "wannabe dealer" jab...

Bustman

not at all.

RYK

Speaking of PUGnacious, where's Frank?

Stuart

John: Those toned Bust Halves are gorgeous!! I especially like the 1821. Are they up for sale in an auction??

sliderider

Wanna buy a half dime??

coinlieutenant

POEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeee!!!!!!!

oreville

RYK:

You said:

<<<<<<<<<<..................... first that it is darker than you thought it would be and smaller than you remember them being (in fact, it takes a 5-7x glass to even look at it). But it's neat and old and original and you are happy that you bought it. You put in your box with your bigger and brighter coins. Everytime you pull it out to look at it, you think to yourself, "This is smaller and darker than I remember." It sits in your collection and over time, you wonder why you bought the blasted thing. Then, after a time, you decide to jettison it.

That was my exact experience with my MS-65 1857 half dime.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What the heck! I need a 5-7x glass just to find my 1/4 $ California fractionals!!!!!!!! You think they would let me jettison them? They know how to hide from my aging eyesight!!!!!!

elwood

<< <i>And thats because I have seen that exact type of tone many times on very high end coins. >>


And who's to say that the persont that did the seated half didn't do the other coins you've seen with the same toning pattern and colors?

Bustman

<< <i>

<< <i>And thats because I have seen that exact type of tone many times on very high end coins. >>


And who's to say that the persont that did the seated half didn't do the other coins you've seen with the same toning pattern and colors? >>



You can tell when you see these coins that they are not AT. Roadrunner hit the nail on the head, it is original first time toning. When you see it, you know its real.

Stuart

The "pull-away" toning under the date on the following half makes the toning appear natural to me, without personally examining the coin...
Either way it's gorgeous!!

stman

<< <i>he "pull-away" toning under the date on the following half makes the toning appear natural to me, >>



I never use one diagnostic to try and determine AT from NT. Yeah, it's got the "Pull away toning" at the date like you mention Stuart. But, do you not think it's possible to enhance other areas? Maybe a little heat? I'm not saying or referring that was done to this coin. I'm merely mentioning this in general. There are Bust halves around that heat has been applied IMO and a few other folks opinion as well. Just happens to be blue.

elwood

<< <i>You can tell when you see these coins that they are not AT. Roadrunner hit the nail on the head, it is original first time toning. When you see it, you know its real. >>


If you say so
Sorry didn't mean to laugh!!

Bustman

Well, Elwood, laugh all you want.....you would need to see them in order to know what I am talking about. That type of coin usually trades hands quickly and quietly, the general public does not see too many. They show up fron time to time in auction, and often as date proof sets.
I'm out of here.

tradedollarnut

And who's to say that the persont that did the seated half didn't do the other coins you've seen with the same toning pattern and colors?

He would have had a tough time breaking into Mr Vermuele's house to do so.

elwood

elwood

TDN
Do you disagree that that toning pattern and color cannot be duplicated by todays coin Dr's?

tradedollarnut

Don't know what today's coins doctors can do exactly, but my first thought is that I don't think they can. If they could, with the extraordinary premiums that type of color brings on the marketplace, I suspect we'd see a lot more than the few examples that come up every now and then.

The place you see color like that is from old time collections - Vermeule [Stacks, Nov 2001] is a prime example. Many of his coins had that exact color and vibrancy. They had been off the market and carefully stored for nearly a century.

I own the 1872 Seated Dollar [PCGS PF65, ex Sunnywood] from that sale. The reverse is a near exact match for the half in question.

elwood

<< <i>He would have had a tough time breaking into Mr Vermuele's house to do so. >>


I don't seem to be able to locate an 1868 Seated Half in the Vermeule Collection? Was there more than one sale?


<< <i>Don't know what today's coins doctors can do exactly, but my first thought is that I don't think they can. >>


Believe me, it can be done.

tradedollarnut

No, there wasn't an 1868 proof half in the sale. But there were many, many coins with this same toning. You stated a position that perhaps all these coins are 'done' by the same person. Only if that person did all of Vermeuele's coins could that position be true. Thus my statement.