Baseball Cards and Coins
RYK
Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
Last night, I read a reprint of an article in the Numismatist from 1992 penned bt Bowers entitled, "What are we doing to ourselves?"
In the article, he discusses the glorious state of baseball card collecting and contrasts it with the gloomy state of affairs in coin collecting at that time. He lists five points at which baseball card collecting was proficient and coin collecting was quite weak. We all know what happened soon thereafter; baseball card collecting tanked.
In 1992, I was already mostly out of baseball cards. I spent 1985-1989 or so heavily involved in cards and the next couple years unwinding a good portion of my collection. I was not doing coins during any of that period.
I see now concerning similarities between baseball card collecting in 1989 and coin collecting in 2004, as well as some stark differences. Here is some food for thought:
1. Baseball card collectors in the 1980's were very much focused on the "moderns", the active and future players. People would speculate who would be the next Willie Mays or Bob Gibson and take sizable "positions" in these players cards. If a player had a good week or month, his rookie card good rise in price appreciably in a short period of time. To me, there are some striking similarities between these modern baseball cards and modern coins of today.
2. More advanced collectors, after the thrill of getting a few Dwight Gooden or Darryl Strawberry rookies, would often move on to more "classic" cards. I formed a "type set" of Roberto Clemente cards (one from each year, 1956-1972--I never bought the "key date" 1955 rookie card--too expensive--and still is). I also purchased some rookie cards/key dates of hall of famers like Willie Stargell and Rod Carew. I was also able to obtain non-key cards of Ted Williams, Sandy Koufax, and Mickey Mantle. Relative to the "modern" cards, these seemed way too cheap.
3. Many baseball card issues became a one-way market. Even when there was a lot of demand for collectors to buy certain issues (Don Mattingly rookies come to mind), the dealers were not that interested in taking them back on trade, let alone for cash. When I start to hear that it is tough to get dealers to buy popular coins, I will know the end of this cycle is near.
4. Near the peak of the baseball card cycle, there was a lot of supply. The established companies were pumping out new cards like crazy, there were retro sets (a reprint issue of the 1953 Topps set, for example) and new companies with new gimmicks every year. We will have a a "retro" coin next year, the new "buffalo nickel", but fortunately, there is only one US Mint to produce new coins.
5. One point that Bowers brought up was that baseball cards were successful because you could go to shops and shows and readily discuss the game and the hobby with friendly dealers and fellow collectors. Coin shows are not quite as friendly and shops are non-existent. The internet and forums like this certainly take the place of the friendly neighborhood coin shop.
6. All of the press about baseball cards was positive and promotional at the time of its boom, while the press about coin collecting was negative including whining about the sagging market, hand-wringing overgrading issues, concern for counterfeits, etc.). I would say that the numismatic press presently is balanced with a good mix of both the positive (price and demand boom) and the negative (grading issues, ebay rip-offs, etc.).
I disposed of most of my collection by 1992 but still have some cards that I will keep no matter what their monetary value because they have some sentimental value to me. Cards like a Cal Ripken card that he signed for me (for free) in person, my complete Mazeroski and Stargell sets and my almost complete Clemente set (can you guess where I am from?), my Honus Wagner (not THE Honus Wagner), Pie Traynor, Ralph Kiner, etc. cards, and so on.
I apologize for the rambling post but thought it would be an interesting discussion point.
In the article, he discusses the glorious state of baseball card collecting and contrasts it with the gloomy state of affairs in coin collecting at that time. He lists five points at which baseball card collecting was proficient and coin collecting was quite weak. We all know what happened soon thereafter; baseball card collecting tanked.
In 1992, I was already mostly out of baseball cards. I spent 1985-1989 or so heavily involved in cards and the next couple years unwinding a good portion of my collection. I was not doing coins during any of that period.
I see now concerning similarities between baseball card collecting in 1989 and coin collecting in 2004, as well as some stark differences. Here is some food for thought:
1. Baseball card collectors in the 1980's were very much focused on the "moderns", the active and future players. People would speculate who would be the next Willie Mays or Bob Gibson and take sizable "positions" in these players cards. If a player had a good week or month, his rookie card good rise in price appreciably in a short period of time. To me, there are some striking similarities between these modern baseball cards and modern coins of today.
2. More advanced collectors, after the thrill of getting a few Dwight Gooden or Darryl Strawberry rookies, would often move on to more "classic" cards. I formed a "type set" of Roberto Clemente cards (one from each year, 1956-1972--I never bought the "key date" 1955 rookie card--too expensive--and still is). I also purchased some rookie cards/key dates of hall of famers like Willie Stargell and Rod Carew. I was also able to obtain non-key cards of Ted Williams, Sandy Koufax, and Mickey Mantle. Relative to the "modern" cards, these seemed way too cheap.
3. Many baseball card issues became a one-way market. Even when there was a lot of demand for collectors to buy certain issues (Don Mattingly rookies come to mind), the dealers were not that interested in taking them back on trade, let alone for cash. When I start to hear that it is tough to get dealers to buy popular coins, I will know the end of this cycle is near.
4. Near the peak of the baseball card cycle, there was a lot of supply. The established companies were pumping out new cards like crazy, there were retro sets (a reprint issue of the 1953 Topps set, for example) and new companies with new gimmicks every year. We will have a a "retro" coin next year, the new "buffalo nickel", but fortunately, there is only one US Mint to produce new coins.
5. One point that Bowers brought up was that baseball cards were successful because you could go to shops and shows and readily discuss the game and the hobby with friendly dealers and fellow collectors. Coin shows are not quite as friendly and shops are non-existent. The internet and forums like this certainly take the place of the friendly neighborhood coin shop.
6. All of the press about baseball cards was positive and promotional at the time of its boom, while the press about coin collecting was negative including whining about the sagging market, hand-wringing overgrading issues, concern for counterfeits, etc.). I would say that the numismatic press presently is balanced with a good mix of both the positive (price and demand boom) and the negative (grading issues, ebay rip-offs, etc.).
I disposed of most of my collection by 1992 but still have some cards that I will keep no matter what their monetary value because they have some sentimental value to me. Cards like a Cal Ripken card that he signed for me (for free) in person, my complete Mazeroski and Stargell sets and my almost complete Clemente set (can you guess where I am from?), my Honus Wagner (not THE Honus Wagner), Pie Traynor, Ralph Kiner, etc. cards, and so on.
I apologize for the rambling post but thought it would be an interesting discussion point.
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Comments
It was quite a thrill when my parents fund those cards in an old U.S Keds shoebox in the attick of our former home, as they were cleaning stuff out to prepare for a garage sale. My sister fortunately saved the cards from an almost certain fate of being sold for pennies at the garage sale.
I have almost a complete set of 1967 Topps Baseball (including the Mickey Mantle and other HOF keys), and since I'm originally from Atlanta I colelcted many various Hank Aaron cards
I agree with you that's what so great about classic sports card collecting is the history of the game and the friendly nostalgia that you can share with your fellow collecting friends. This particular collection also reminds me of my youth when I purchased and actively built this collection.
I am truly fortunate to still have this tangible part of my youth to enjoy...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
a real stretch. The only thing they really have in common is that the cards hadn't been bringing
large premiums at that time for long just as modern coins haven't long been appreciated. With
the cards there were millions of people collecting, buying, and selling them. The market was
huge and could be found anywhere. Modern coins garner so little respect that many coin dealers
don't even carry them. While there are millions of collectors, most get the coins right out of circu-
lation or from the mint.
It might also be considered that these modern coins you're so quick to write off are actually older
than the classic baseball cards even back in those days.
If you must compare moderns to card thn you should compare them to the modern cards back
about 1969 or '70. Back before there was widespread interest or a well established market.
Don't get me wrong though, any comparison is a stretch and can hardly include the many unique
aspects of the many markets for coins.
Sadly, my original childhood collection (1971-1978 or so) was sold to a scumbag card dealer for $45 when my mother decided she wanted to get it out of the house (around 1980). I probably had individual cards worth more than that at the time. That would NEVER happen with a coin collection.
BTW, Clemente's last card was a 1973 Topps, even though he never played that season. as you know, he was killed in a plane crash on Dec. 31, 1972. Strange but true fact...a current baseball card for a deceased player showing him at bat, as if that picture were taken in 1973. An oops on their part.
I do take issue with you on the statement that coin shops are non-existant...I live in a small city of 250,000 people and we have five full-time coin shops in the area. Coin shops are out there and aren't hard to find. On a trip from Pittsburgh through Milwaukee, Madison, Rockford, and St. Louis this summer, I stopped at no fewer than a dozen different coin shops, and had to miss another dozen or more because of lack of time.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>Actually, you don't need to compare thing to the baseball card market in 1989, just look back at the coin market in 1964! Just like there were baseball card shops every street corner in '89, there were coin shops every corner in '64, and the moderns, i.e. say 50-d nickels were $25 each which was a whole lot of money back then! >>
or stamp shops...try finding a stamp dealer who doesn't sell cards, coins, or beanies and stays in business...impossible.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
michael
<< <i>just look back at the coin market in 1964 >>
I remember it well. Anything the mint spit out doubled in price and more money was spent on coin less than 20 years old than all the old coins combined.
Coin collecting has always been a broad based hobby with countless books and written information on the subject. Arguably, this is a hundred and fifty year old hobby, as we know it.....(Of course, coin collecting, per se. has been around for thousands of years).
Now, cards, on the other hand. A baby hobby, in terms of longevity. As we know it, this hobby has existed for less than 40 years.
Information was scarce, prior to the internet, as far as mintage, availability, marketing, etc. It took the internet to show how common or scarce any particular card was and is.
Some would say this is comparing apples and oranges. I think it's closer to comparing apples and bicycles.....
Paul
tobacco baseball card with the name 'WAGNER' on the front! Genuine! And for $12! I quickly swiped it up. Turns out it was HEINE Wagner!
Oh well-- I still have that card, and I still treasure it as by far, my oldest.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Also, good follow-up point by jrocco.
Partner / Executive VP
Heritage Auctions