Interesting CW article about Long Beach dealers leaving early and forfieting their tables as a resul
keets
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This has been a Hot topic before, tables empty on Sunday with collectors complaining and dealers defending the exit due to a slow day. There are good points from both sides. I recall a couple of years ago that some dealers left the F.U.N. Show early and were penalized $1000. This appears a bit more strict.
According to the article the show schedule was changed from four days to three days, eliminating Sunday. Expo general chairman Ron Gillio states that dealers back in June left early to the tune of about 80. They were warned in the contract and during the show over the public address system.
Four unnamed dealers left early anyway and have forfieted their tables for the next show!!! The waiting list has shrunk.
Comments??? Anyone hear the announcements?? Can any dealers verify the warnings in their contracts?? Does anyone know who the four might be??
Al H.
According to the article the show schedule was changed from four days to three days, eliminating Sunday. Expo general chairman Ron Gillio states that dealers back in June left early to the tune of about 80. They were warned in the contract and during the show over the public address system.
Four unnamed dealers left early anyway and have forfieted their tables for the next show!!! The waiting list has shrunk.
Comments??? Anyone hear the announcements?? Can any dealers verify the warnings in their contracts?? Does anyone know who the four might be??
Al H.
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Comments
By the way, what did they consider early enough to invoke the forfeiture?
Michael
the article makes reference to 5 PM.
al h.
I don't know the specific situation of the four dealers who left early, but feel that the system should have an appropriate mix of harshness and understanding, incentives and penalties.
The Expo already eliminated Sunday hours, with a 4PM Saturday departure. Clearly, the organizers are willing to work with the East Coast dealers. As I said, I don't know the situation specific to those four...
EVP
[edited to add that I'm not sure of the 4PM vs 5PM departure time.]
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Michael
The loss of your table may be a bit harsh however. A 'G' note fine or some similar punishment may be more appropriate. This way, if you had to be home for Tiffany's birthday party, it only cost you an extra thousand.....It must be a serious problem though and the promoters are trying to find a solution......
Paul
be an effective deterant.
Let's see if they actually keep doing it.
<< <i>Say that to me AFTER you've been there for a week. And have been on the road for 2-3 weeks out of a month >>
I see your point, but you're in Monmouth county so you're at least a hour from either airport. Between getting up that morning, working the show, packing up, getting to the airport, flying and then driving home, it'll be 4am before you even get home.
I would rather grab a nice juicy steak, have a Black Label or two, take a hot shower, kick back and relax. Fly the next morning and get home around 2 pm when you'll just be getting up anyway.
Michael
Now, requiring dealers to stay to 5:00 p.m. and adding another day away from the family - the handwriting is on the wall IMHO that dealers may simply take a pass on the entire show in the years ahead. And, I feel for the collector position as well (i.e. travelling to the show). But, if 1/2 the dealers simply pass on doing the show at all in the future - will these collectors be better off then?
I've played the "10 day show game" a number of times - IT IS NO FUN.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
The red-eye home departs LAX at 10PM. I didn't get home until around 7:30AM. It was my first red-eye, and I felt miserable. Previously, I left Sun morning and getting home around 7PM Sunday. 7PM!!! That bites! The draw of the home is very strong!!!
Don't know what I'll do next -- probably the red-eye again. BTW, that flight is nearly 100% full.
I think a job is a job, but man do I miss home!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Heck, if I was at show as a collector, and they said there was a free table, I wouldn't mind taking it for a couple hours just to relax and chitchat with the passers by. I could even empty my slab box and ask stupid prices for everything
Coinosaurus posts the best solution--let the departing dealers go and fill their table with local dealers, vest pocket guys, or collectors wanting to set up shop at no charge. Retail public gets to come to a full house. East coast dealers get to go home. Win-win.
I am under the impression that the Baltimore shows are the East Coast homologs of the Long Beach shows? Are not the issues virtually the same? (except that perhaps travelling west at the end of the day is not as disruptive as travelling east)
AMOR VINCIT OM
The Estate Of Dustin T. Wonders
Are they not part of the show??
What would happen if no one showed up for the show? If you want your dealers pass to enter the show early then buy the #$%# thing leave early but don't set up at the show.
Is the show ONLY for the dealers> If so then set it up that way and set up a show for the public.
Nothing more disgusting than going to a show and seeing EMYT tables.
Period! .
Jim
<< <i>These show promoters got smart. They all want someone who is a regular on the table to be there-with inventory displayed.
The ANA is famous for sending a person around with a clip board about an hour before the show closes (something I have always felt is childish).Those people will nail a dealer in a heartbeat. >>
Come to think of it. I stayed late on Sunday at the ANA show in Pittsburgh. To me it looked like all the tables were still set up.
Jerry
That's a great idea. Hopefully someone will read this and put this to practice. I can see even letting the early leaving dealers sublease a table to someone.
I know there will be problems with this but it's the best option so far.
Michael
<< <i>Say that to me AFTER you've been there for a week. And have been on the road for 2-3 weeks out of a month. >>
Where's the "bawlin' my olde red eyes out" emoticon???
How about if you work 12 hour days, 6 days per week, constantly on your feet in one of Tyson's chicken processing plants? poooooooor baby!!
<< <i>There really is no place like home. >>
Well, Jiminy Cricket, are you really Judy Garland?
I'll be baaaack......!
al h.
<< <i>good idea in theory but not principal. i doubt you would have guys with their inventory hangin' out till somebody packed it in around noon just so they could unpack for a couple of hours.
>>
But what if it was a planned Saturday exit by the dealer? He wouldn't have to wonder if it was OK to leave early, and the local dealer would be assured of a table on Sunday. In other words, the primary dealer would decide when he buys the table how many days he will be there and things would be planned accordingly, with no doubts in anyone's mind. They could put it in the contract. I would probably show up on a Sunday if I knew there was fresh inventory and eager dealers!
Suppose a regular table at LB is $1000, then make a Fri-departure table available for $1050, with vacancy by 7PM.
Sat-only tables available for $50, with setup at 7:30PM Fri. Enforce the rules, giving allowance only to those with a real reason (wife in labor, son rushed to hospital, dog misses you, etc.).
* Gives national dealers a choice.
* Gives others a chance.
* More dealers on last day of show.
* More $$ to show promoters.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I went to the big Baltimore Show once with my son who is 7. This was his first big show with me. We got there when the doors opened on Sunday morning (Worked all week and had another engagement on Saturday)....and it was a damn ghost town!!
Maybe 40% of the dealers were there and within 3 hours half of them started clearing out of there.
It was sad really. The show was advertised in every publication Friday-Sunday until 4 PM. When this happens they are lying to the public and this is bad news. Especially since a lot of these dealers are members of the ANA and PNG and all these other clubs that constantly talk about INTEGRITY. Integrity is keeping your word and being at the show when it is advertised that you will be there.
Imagine if a store had posted hours and just did not show up on the one day you got there to buy something. Normal retail stores would never do this. Rarely ever will that happen. But at coin shows it is a COMMON thing. Dealers don't take it seriously, and even when threatened with fines they still do it. Any almost always have a weak excuse.
I say cancel all shows on Sundays and stop advertising them. Of course then it will happen on Saturdays which would become the last day of the show.
People should just honor their commitments and be there as advertised. Period.
David
It is the collector who gets the shaft IMHO here. See numerous posts above for details about that.
However, I have travelled extensively in past positions and I recognize what is going on with the professionals here. You are all burned out by the auctions and dealer to dealer transactions in the 5 days before the collector even arrives on scene.
What is clear to me is that high end dealers do not come to sell to the public and the relatively small amount of business they do with them is not all that important. The serious collectors live in a different world than most of the small collectors. However, it is the small collectors who make up the majority of the attendees at these shows.
My solution is to sell a one day table for the first day of the show to the dealers who are too tired or burnt out to staff the entire show. Put them in a seperate area and they can sell on Thursday only. Everyone one else commits to stay until whatever time on Saturday.
You said:
<<<<<<y that to me AFTER you've been there for a week. And have been on the road for 2-3 weeks out of a month >>
I see your point, but you're in Monmouth county so you're at least a hour from either airport. Between getting up that morning, working the show, packing up, getting to the airport, flying and then driving home, it'll be 4am before you even get home.
I would rather grab a nice juicy steak, have a Black Label or two, take a hot shower, kick back and relax. Fly the next morning and get home around 2 pm when you'll just be getting up anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>
My thoughts? I am surprised at you.
I have been there, done that. But it was so much better to take that 7pm flight and be home even at 4am because when your darling 5 year olds wake up, there is nothing more reassuring and emotionally stabilizing to them (after a long absence) to them to see to see Daddy slumbering away in his bed with Mommy at 7 am. After the usual 1 hour of time-outs and rewards for being quiet until 8 am, then Daddy gets up anyway because Sunday is the most important day in their lives since that is THEIR day to be with Daddy. Not at 2pm. But at 8 am.
Now I hope YOU NEVER FORGET THAT!
I, in my opinion wasted $400 in hotel expenses, plus food and gasoling expenses, for what? All I got was anger and didn't even get a T-shirt. I haven't been back to that show yet and that was 4 years ago. If you can't fulfill an obligation other than an emergency then don't sign up.
<< <i>Now I hope YOU NEVER FORGET THAT! >>
Well Oreville, I don't have children yet so I didn't really put into that perspective. I was thinking more along the lines of what I would do personally. Hence the reference to Black Label. I don't expect everyone to become a scotch drinker. But I do see your point
Michael
Tables would always be full, and everyone can be happy. lalalalala
Thank you for your ecumenism. Some of us drink anything from cheap rum to hoity-toity cognac but avoid scotch all together.
I went to Long Beach on Saturday to see some forum members, pick up my Heritage auction lots, and maybe see some nice dark side material. After I tallied up my Heritage winnings I didn't have anything left to put a dent in Karl Stephens' inventory, but I took my 4-year old daughter on the show-sponsored treasure hunt.
I was surprised to see dealers packing up when we arrived around noon. Everyone at the Heritage table was eating lunch at 1:00 PM when I wandered over to pay for my auction lots. I stood in front of the table for a few minutes before I finally got someone to assist me (albeit grudgingly). Others came after me and were told that lot pick-up closed at 1:00 PM (though through some persistence were "allowed" to pay for their coins). At least I got to pick up my coins and my daughter got to search through nickels for her album. My thanks to the show organizers for making her day. I think she got away with a haul of 15 nickels, and the Long Beach Coin Club gave her two dark side coins.
If I were in the market for liteside coins and had had some cash left, I would have been bothered by all the dealers packing up when we got there at noon. As it was, I was just glad to be able to pick up my auction winnings before the Heritage folks turned me away.
Obscurum per obscurius
Many of the empty tables you see are wholesale dealers and not likely to have many coins out on display, even early in the show schedule.
One other thing! Lets say that Long Beach has 300 tables and one third of the dealers leave early. That still leaves 200 tables with dealers. I think a person should be able to find a few coins with 200 dealers inventories to look through. It may look like many have left but looks can be deceiving.
I can recall two times in 9 years of coin dealing when I made money on the Sunday of a multiday show. One time I sold about $2,000 worth of stuff. The other I meant a very, very good customer. He did not buy anything on that day, but he did buy several hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff in subsequent years.
If half the people who complain about dealers being no shows on Sunday actaully CAME to the shows and spent money, there would be no controversy. The trouble is most of those folks just like to complain.