The 60's Football Olympics
Fuzz
Posts: 903
It has been a week or two now without being overwhelmed with five channels of sports all day and all night. Though thank God ...... Football is finally here (rough start but better than nothing). I did enjoy the medal count updates. I have converted the 60's issues to Olympic style medal counts (top three spots for each of the major FB sets from the 60's). Here's what I found.
Owner Gold Silv. Brnz. Total
Davalillo 0 2 5 7
Fuzzdude 3 2 0 5
Paul Lemm 2 2 0 4
Skinsfan 2 1 0 3
Wolfbear 1 1 1 3
FabFrank 1 0 2 3
Frank Evanov 2 0 0 2
Nearmint 1 0 1 2
MOSH. 0 1 1 2
Al & Sandy 0 0 2 2
An additional 21 different owners each would have received one medal.
Congrats if you are on the list. I actually thought before I started that Mr. Lemm would win because it seems that every time I look at a set, he is the guy on top that I would be chasing.
If you are not on the list, thank you. You have probably saved me money by not driving the prices up any more than my buddies already have.
Guess we should be starting a "Fear the Lillo" club any time now. Congratulations Jim !!
Fuzz
Owner Gold Silv. Brnz. Total
Davalillo 0 2 5 7
Fuzzdude 3 2 0 5
Paul Lemm 2 2 0 4
Skinsfan 2 1 0 3
Wolfbear 1 1 1 3
FabFrank 1 0 2 3
Frank Evanov 2 0 0 2
Nearmint 1 0 1 2
MOSH. 0 1 1 2
Al & Sandy 0 0 2 2
An additional 21 different owners each would have received one medal.
Congrats if you are on the list. I actually thought before I started that Mr. Lemm would win because it seems that every time I look at a set, he is the guy on top that I would be chasing.
If you are not on the list, thank you. You have probably saved me money by not driving the prices up any more than my buddies already have.
Guess we should be starting a "Fear the Lillo" club any time now. Congratulations Jim !!
Fuzz
Wanted: Bell Brands FB and BB, Chiefs regionals especially those ugly milk cards, Coke caps, Topps and Fleer inserts and test issues from the 60's. 1981 FB Rack pack w/ Jan Stenerud on top.
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Comments
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
Thank you but that is a temporary thing I'm sure.
I consider that in large part because so far, you only collect two sets.
Fuzz
I suspect that this year I will end up with only one first.
Fuzz
I will be posting a 67 topps set next week i think the name will be FUZZBEAR
I need 4 cards to finish it they are at psa and a handful need up grades but its at 8.25 now
Nice stats Fuzz.
Just remember that they don't hand out the medals for the 880
at the 800 meter mark ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
I actually expected to lose that set to Dav in the next few weeks. But I still expect only to win the 63F set this year. Not to bad considering I won six last year and have added only a handful of cards this year and probably most of next year as well. Congrats on the '67 set. You must have been winning a few while I was away. Nicely done. Can't think of anybody I'd rather lose to with the possible exception of the Bear.
But now the bad news. You have crossed the line. That was my set and you took it. So. I will feel compelled on my return to a) take it back & b) inflict comparable damage. So run my friend. Run very fast. As a very wise old man once said, "Don't look back ........... something might be gaining on you.
Wolffy,
Don't worry yet. There are no medals given out. I suspect that there are a few late updates that may change things a little but. It was just a chance to look at this a different way and it appears we all need to fear Jim and now Art. This will move the Skinsfan up one in the standings so I would take that as a challenge if I were you. My 6th medal winner is already upstairs in a box, I just haven't brought it out to play yet. Maybe next year.
In fact, there are very few races that I think are over. Because at my house, there is almost always next year even if you don't play this year. And most of my losses, I plan on getting back. I might even try a new set or two just for fun. About the only areas that I look at and go "geeeeezzzzzzz.......", is that Mantlefan stuff. Even starting out with a nice set, that is a steep hill to climb. But maybe I can get a lesser someday in those.
Fuzz
ENJOY THE VACATION MY MAN!!!!!
I like your 60's Football Olympic Score card idea......Pretty Cool Stuff !!
But I feel you are missing the boat just a little by not assigning weighted averages, although I realize this is taking things to a whole different level as some heavy thought would have to go into that.
Example would be someone that is first on the number one 63 set should get a lot more credit than a third place
finisher on a Topps 68 set or a set that that there has been little participation in.
I guess if you are just counting medals for simplicitic reason, it is a very cool and fun conversation piece and I commend you for it.
Somehow I'm thinking it would be interresting to give realistic weighted averages to the really tough sets, to determine who the real heavy weights if you will ...... are.
But perhapes you have already done so with a far more simplicitic version?
Why make it difficult if it doesn't need to be right??
Anyway, just thinking out loud......which is always dangereous.
It would interresting to work on a few formula's to determine with the help of the POP reports etc. who is king of the real tough sets.
As mentioned, perhapes you have already done that?
Maybe this can be a little pet project I work on with some one like Near Mint Mike or someone else??
Any and all comments welcomed.
You can certainly tell me, if you think I am all wet.
Mojorob
PS. Maybe the 60's Football guy's could have their own little cyber award ceramony?
Maybe Near Mint Mike could list it on his MOST EXCELLENT WEB SITE?
Again, just a thought.
Mike
PS - I thought I saw Davalillo running down Interstate I-95 with a torch in his hand last week?
Straight Medal Count
Owner Gold Silv. Brnz. Total
Davalillo 0 2 5 7
Fuzzdude 3 2 0 5
Paul Lemm 2 2 0 4
Skinsfan 2 1 0 3
Wolfbear 1 1 1 3
FabFrank 1 0 2 3
Frank Evanov 2 0 0 2
Nearmint 1 0 1 2
MOSH. 0 1 1 2
Al & Sandy 0 0 2 2
3-2-1 Medal Points:
Fuzzdude 13
Paul Lemm 10
Davalillo 9
Skinsfan 8
Wolfbear 6
Frank Evanov 6
FabFrank 5
Nearmint 4
MOSH. 3
Al & Sandy 2
2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
Nothing on ebay
If people would like to see it, I would happily add a page to my gallery site for the table. I would resist weighting the 1-2-3 positions and the difficulty of sets, though. The beauty of the Olympic medals table is that it's simple and familiar--and that it's just a set of counts that people can analyze on their own.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Add my name to the list of people that would like to see you add a page to your gallery site for the table.
That would be very cool.
Thumbs Up!!
Mojorob
Many of the 50's sets I'm putting together have people locked into the number 1 spot with the older graded PSA 9 sets, that are pretty much unbeatable. I could buy every PSA 9 that comes up for the next 4 years, and still not touch Verno's 1950 Bowman set.
I'd imagine I'm not the only one out there ... who's final goal is just getting to second or third place.
Mike
circle.
Jack
Pickcatfish just stay away from those 68 nines i need
your friendly CRAZED REDSKINS FAN
Is it me, or has there been a dearth of vintage graded Rc's on Ebay lately? Commons seem to be plentiful, but the key Rc's don't seem to be anywhere.
possibly in the HOF category..?? Seriously, you have a great set and I have my hands full just trying to get
back to #2. By the way - skins looking impressive.
Pinkcatfish
Tell me about it....
Loves me some shiny!
I guess I will take that as a compliment .. lord knows doesn't happen often.
Got to go bust open my kid's piggy bank tonight.
Feel free to do with the info as you please. If you are going to post it on your site, I will stop posting it here as we go forward. Your site is frequently visited here by most of the FB guys so that should be adequate info. The same strategy works for Bowman and 50's Topps FB. I was going to post the results here but this has gotten a lot more interest than I expected and if you are going to follow it up, I will leave it as a draw to the website.
I also took a look at the inserts/regionals, 70's and 80's sets and decided not to do anything those. Not that the same principle doesn't apply but in some of those sets, there are not three mature sets that would be worth awarding anything to at this point. Several of the years do not even have a registry award qualifier yet due to the lower completion percentages. I suspect that will change over the next couple of years but at least for now, I choose to stay away from them.
Fuzz
Mike
Which Crane Disc recieved the magical Couldabeena transformation treatment.......... from a soggy, soiled beer coaster to a Olympic Gold Medallion?
Was it the legendary Doug Buffune ........... Oh, I'm sorry I mean 't Buffone.
Please forgive the fruedian slip.
Mojoro
Did you include any sets besides Topps, Philadelphia, and Fleer in your tabulations, Fuzz? I assume you didn't include insert sets, but how about 1961 Nu-Cards? Any others?
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
I know I am not FUZZ, but I will at least give you my opinion.
I think at least initially, it best to just keep it at the three major sets: Topps, Fleer, and Philly.
The Nucards and really anything else could come down the road if deemed necessary, which I don't think they are.
You see, the key to this whole thing ................ is to not include "WEAK SISTER" issues like this as to give "Shouldabenna Mike"
even the slightest window of oppourtunity to nominate his PERFECT PSA 10 CRANE DISC SET.
Now I know you are saying: NuCards are Head & Shoulders above those lowely Cranes and really what aren't for that matter??, but really once you have crossed the baseball equivilant to "The Mendosa Line," where do you stop??
Mojorob
PS. Oh yea....I guess Cranes were issued in the 70's
Thank GOD we're SAFE!!
I included only the four Fleer sets, the four Philly sets and the major Topps issue for each year inculsive between 1960 and 1969.
For most of the insert sets, regionals and the "minor" sets (like Nu cards), there are just not enough quality sets listed to make sense at this point. Not to say that there aren't some nice sets, but some of the issues clearly don't have three quality sets yet and it made no sense to me to try to include some and not others. This should probably be revisited down the road. The same goes for the 70's and 80's sets at the current time.
Clearly this leaves out the 50's Topps and Bowman sets where there are many mature sets and this kind of analysis probably makes sense for them as well. Feel free to include and/or combine as you see fit. Might make a draw to the site and you may even want to add a link in your tag line.
Please let me know if I can add anything else.
Fuzz
HOT DOG
Funny Rings make BAD coasters.
One got stuck to the bottom of my martini glass,
and when I saw it, I freaked out and spilled gin all over myself.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Very nice looking. That should help spur a little healthy 60's competition for those 2nd and 3rd place spots.
Although, I'd like to take a moment and make an appeal for the not so mainstream sets of the 60's. << start humming God Bless America as you read on >> .... The sets without names like Topps, Philly, and Fleer. The step child sets, the non aristicratic sets, the ... Yes, I'll say it ... oddball sets.
In the true spirit of the 60's, how can we possibly leave out our brother oddball sets? Wasn't America built upon the very foundation of including everyone? "Give me your tired, your poor, your oddball!"
Sure they may not be collected by the bigger names on the boards, but I'd offer up that they just may indeed be harder to put together than many of the mainstream sets, and every bit as deserving of recognition as the others. Just about anyone with the capital can buy their way into a top three main set. But it takes a true collector, a hunter if you will, .... to go out into the wild and track down the raw cards needed to build a high grade odd ball set. Sets with odd little names like Mayrose, Nu-Cards, Stancraft, Lake-to-Lake, Funny rings, Bucks, Stand-ups, 4-in-ones, etc.
There is a great divide that has been formed between what some would call mainstream and others would not. But I believe if we all start today to include our brother oddball sets into the fold, and look upon them as equals .... and not as outcasts, then some day we can all stand together atop the mountain, and rejoice in the true meaning of collector.
Mike
PS - and I'm not just saying this because I'm getting ready to register some oddball sets
Think about it: synchronized diving and rhythmic gymnastics are now Olympic sports, and what has that gotten us? More medals for the Chinese and Russians, that's what. How un-American is that?
I'll leave it up to my fellow board members, but I don't see how we can admit the likes of Football Bucks and 4-in-1's. Seriously, how can we even talk about something that comes pre-creased or perforated?
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
What kind of whining is this ??
If we look at the sets that you suggest, Stancraft, Funny Rings, Stand ups and Bucks all do not even have three sets registered ! The bucks have none and the Stancraft only one. Hard to give a medal to no entry.
The Lake to Lake set has three entries, but none are even close to qualifing for an award. Several of the other sets you skip like Fleer patches, Topps emblems and iron on transfers are all in the same boat.
While I like the sets, and someday think the deserve inclusion, only the 61 Nu card and the 69 4 in1 have enough mature sets to consider it today. Two seems a little low on the count to me. I'm with Nearmint, give them a while, let them grow up, as they mature in sets entered it will make sense. Before then, no thanks.
I would make the same arguement, again, for CFL sets, 70's sets, 80's sets 70's oddball and the like.
Fuzz
couldabeen what you going do ,what you going do when the chilli pepper dances on you
I must agree with the Fuzz and Nearmint on this 1 Mike not enough players at this time.
And that counts my beloved funny rings
"couldabeen what you going do, what you going do when the chilli pepper dances on you"
Coaster Boy forgot to mention the 1967 Topps inserts.
1960's Football cards just don't get much better than this :
Doesn't the Olympics have some sports classified as 'for exhibition purposes only', or words to that effect ?
You don't get a real medal, but the event may eventually become an Olympic event ?
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Having checked the site, I must say "most excellent work".
Though you can delete that where you got the idea stuff. I don't need to be blamed for anything else these days.
Fuzz
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
I knew I was probably blowing in the wind when I asked ... but I promised one of the oddball collectors that I'd make an appeal to try and get the sets included. Maybe some day you all will see the err in your ways .... but until then, I guess we'll just pretend the "other football collectors" don't exist and only praise the mainstream collectors.
..... sigh .....
Hail, Hail, the mainstream guys ..... rah, rah, rah
Mike
Nice job - looks great. Thanks for including us lowly bronze medal holders. They will have to pry it out of my
arthritic hands someday. I do have a silver (maybe 2) down deep in my wallet somewhere.
Jack
Don't despair.
When the word ODD BALL is ever brought up, I always think of you anyway.
Mojorob
Football Olympics with an asterisk "*"" And that asterisk being including the 1971 Topps Football set. Being that the 71 set is as rare as most 60 sets and the fact that no other 70 set is even close to being rare, maybe you could include it in your list. Take a poll
and see what you come up with.
Dave Lemon
55 Bowman FB will get you my vote.
Loves me some shiny!
The choices that I made were arbitrary but based on criteria. That the date start with "196x" and I choose to use only the main stream sets. Could I have included up to 72 and/or the odd ball's? Sure but I didn't because I didn't see that the broad category of sets were deep. The people that I think have a legitimate complaint is the Bowman and 50's guys and I believe that they deserve their own recognition.
I have explained the reasons that I choose what I did and now I will offer evidence.
Below is a list of the 60's oddball's that PSA slabs and they current % completions for the top three sets.
1960 Topps CFL None None None
1960 Mayrose 100 100 100
1960 Playoff Cnt. None None None
1960 Topps Metal St. None None None
1960 Fleer Penn. 100 None None
1961 Nu Card 100 100 99
1961 Golden Tulip None None None
1961 Kahn's None None None
1961 National City None None None
1961 Topps Stickers None None None
1961 CFL None None None
1961 Lake to Lake 42 25 22
1962 Topps Bucks None None None
1962 CFL 4 1 None
1962 Kahn's None None None
1962 Post None None None
1962 Salada Coins None None None
1963 Kahn's None None None
1963 Stancraft 80 None None
1963 CFL 84 56 None
1964 Topps Penn. None None None
1964 Kahn's None None None
1964 CFL 63 23 None
1964 wheaties None None None
1965 Topps Rub offs None None None
1965 CFL 99 43 None
1966 Funny Rings 100 75 None
1967 Toops embems None None None
1967 Royal Cast. Dolp None None None
1968 OPC None None None
1968 Test Teams 100 48 None
1968 Stand ups 100 95 None
1969 4 in 1's 100 100 100
Of the 33 sets that PSA grades that are 60's odd ball's (supplementals, regionals, inserts, etc.) only 4 of the issues actually have three current registerd sets. Off the 99 "medals" that this would result in only 28 would actually be issed as 71 of them have "no entry". Of the 28 that would be won, five actually have completion percentages of 25% or less. Now there are some very nice sets in this group that I would love to own. And maybe by publishing this list, you can make an argument that it will spur collectors to collect or register their sets. But when the bar is so low I don't feel it really adds much. If you wanted to compete here, you could buy 29 cards that have already been slabbed, add them to this and "win" 20 golds, 2 silvers and 7 bronze. Geez, isn't that bar kind of low? How would that be in comparison to some of those really top end 100% complete sets that are in there?
As for the 71 set, here is the current status. Dave's set is absolutely top notch and the others are coming along. But it is not a 60's set and the total completions are not as high as typically found in the 60's sets. But Dave, I assure you, you are not missing out on any glory, accolades or groupies. You will win the same thing that every other first place winner will get this year.
If you want to see a list of the 70's, I can put one together, just let me know.
1971 Topps 100 36 42
For comparison, I have done the % completions for the Bowman's.
1948 Bowman 100 97 97
1950 Bowman 100 100 100
1951 Bowman 100 100 100
1952 Bowman Lrg. 100 92 100
1952 Bowman Sm. 95 49 3
1953 Bowman 100 98 100
1954 Bowman 100 100 99
1955 Bowman 100 100 93
In this case, the 52 small clearly is low hanging fruit as a handful of cards could get in to third place. Certainly all of the others have three very good sets. I would argue here that it belongs. It is a Bowman and to leave one out stirkes me as funny when every other one is solid.
As I have explained, I did this for fun. I learned that "Dav" is the top dog today of 60's FB. If we expanded the criteria this might not change. If we expanded far enough then probably MOSH would win. But they only win bragging rights and we never hear from MOSH and can't hear from Dav. So what? If anybody wants to see any other "groups", please let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Fuzz
1976 Crane Disc's 100 100 100
1976 Crane Disc 100 100 83.
You can't count the all-times..... only the current.
I didn't realize he had retired his set. Someone must have bought it off of him recently ...... hmmmm ...... he had the only other PSA 10 available for one of the cards.
Smells like someone's trying to sneak up on me?