I Learned Something Tonight About Crossovers ....

foodude

This is from tonights Q&A. I asked HRH the following question since I was curious about this aspect of crossovers ...

Question: Is a crossover that crosses graded twice?- once in the holder to determine it meets the minimum grade selected (or will otherwise be holdered by PCGS), and then a second time raw to determined the actual grade?

Answer: We only grade crossovers once...in the holder

sliderider

I'm not sure if I like that response. What if theres a scratch or something on the inside of the slab that looks like it's on the coin? They have to break it out to reholder it, right? So why not cross it outside the holder?

hookedoncoins

I can understand that with "cross at grade or above," but with "cross at any grade," I would think they would crack the coin before grading. What if there is rim hits or scratches on the slab that could affect the grade.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>So why not cross it outside the holder? >>



Because if smoething happened after the coin was cracked out and it dint cross then PCGS would have a dilemma on their hands. How to get it back into the holder that the customer submited it in.

Strat

Why would PCGS crack out a coin from another service's holder in order to grade it? Such an action would nullify a customer's guarantee from the original grading service (if there is any), introduce the possibility of damaging the coin and probably would enrage customers at some point, if not right away. The only realistic solution is for them to grade the coin through the original holder.

PCGS coins submitted for regrade are removed from their original PCGS holders. You can request a PCGS coin to be regraded in its original holder, but the last time I did that, they said no.

Placid

Ngc first makes sure the coin will cross at the grade the submitter requests if any then cracks it out and grades it raw.

Guess pcgs dosen't do it like that.

FC57Coins

So what would happen if when they grade it raw it doesn't meet the grade for some reason? Now they would be sitting with a crossover coin cracked out of it's holder, where maybe the owner specified cross over at a minimum grade, or else send the coin back in the holder, but now there's no holder - doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

foodude

Why would PCGS crack out a coin from another service's holder in order to grade it?

Because it is easier to grade the coin outside of the holder.

So what would happen if when they grade it raw it doesn't meet the grade for some reason? Now they would be sitting with a crossover coin cracked out of it's holder, where maybe the owner specified cross over at a minimum grade, ....

This could happen. Again it is easier to grade a raw coin. Sometimes things can be missed, or not seen (e.g., things at or near the rim/edges) in every type of holder. Won't this lead to being extra cautious on grading crossovers? It would seem unless someone at PCGS noticed (since it is not regraded at this point, it would seem it would need to be an obvious problem) after the coin was cracked that there was a reason the coin as seen raw or in the PCGS holder (e.g., the person verifying the grade once the coin is in the PCGS holder*) would not meet the minimum grade (and hence the grade guarantee applies?). Otherwise, it looks like the coin would need to be resubmitted (and graded raw, since PCGS cracks PCGS regrades; not sure how this works on Presidential Reviews) if it looks overgraded in the PCGS holder.

* It can be easier to see some things (e.g., portion of the rim/edges) in PCGS holders as compared to some other holders).

keets

all these replies highlight an assertion i've made for some time when this topic comes up. there's certainly plenty of risk involved with a crossover for PCGS, so they'd better be quite certain about the grade before the coin's removed from the other service holder. who can blame them for erring on the side of caution?? after all, the submitter of a coin for crossover isn't short of no balls, or they'd crack the coin and submit it raw, right??? why be afraid to do that and then blame PCGS because they choose the same caution, that's absurd. crack the coin and send it in raw or accept their caution and receive an un-crossed coin, it's that simple.

also, a coin submitted for "any grade" crossing may DNC due to questionable color or any of the other no-grade qualifiers, again, just PCGS erring on the side of caution and incurring our wrath for the no guts/no glory approach of an in holder cross.

the solution is simple, if you feel a coin is OK for the assigned grade, crack it yourself and take your lumps. unless it's better to sherk responsibility and pass that along to PCGS, thus earning the right to rant about their policy!!!

hey, i feel better now.

al h.

Placid

Ngc crossover procedure.

bushmaster8

I do not think NGC's crossover procedure is any different from PCGS's. Despite the NGC graders statement that the coin is "graded twice", the "second" grading is not a true grading, in that the coin once cracked out can not receive a grade lower than the original grade assigned by the non-NGC grading service.
I guess it's a matter of semantics.

keets

hey Bushmaster

i'd have to agree. when PCGS "grades" the coin in-holder, they certainly don't assign a grade, crack it and holder it without a cursory "grading" out of the holder.

al h.

GoYankees

I'll always crackout from now on except for regrades (I'm still on the fence on those)...

1921-D Mercury Dime ANACS (G06) PCGS---G06
1921-D Walking Liberty Half ANACS (VG08) PCGS--- DNC (PCGS said it was G06)
1950-D Franklin Half PCI (green 14-digit) (MS64FBL) PCGS--- MS64FBL
1916-D Mercury Dime PCI (green 10-digit) (AG03)* PCGS--- AG03
1900-O Morgan Dollar PCI (green 10-digit) (MS64PQ)* PCGS--- MS64 (DOH! I thought it was 65!)
1944 Walking Liberty Half PCI (green 10-digit) (MS62PQ)* PCGS--- MS64 (sweet!)
1930-S Lincoln Cent PCI (green 10-digit) (MS63PQ)* PCGS--- MS64RD
1936 Washington Quarter PCI (green 10-digit) (MS64)* PCGS--- MS65
1944 Mercury Dime PCI (green 10-digit) (MS63PQ)* PCGS--- MS65
2001-D Roosevelt Dime PCGS (Blue - No Bar Code on front) (MS67)*** PCGS ---- MS68FB Wahooo!
1943-D Mercury Dime PCGS (Old Rattler)(MS64)*** PCGS---MS64 (DOH!) I thought it was FB my eyes must have been tired

* - crackouts
*** - regrades (not cracked out)

Russ

<< <i>the solution is simple, if you feel a coin is OK for the assigned grade, crack it yourself and take your lumps. >>



Yea, verily.

Russ, NCNE