Old-Holdered coins with a new seldom mentioned twist.
keets
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It seems to be a collecting diversion for some/many to seek out old-holdered coins, either for the novelty of the holder or the hopes of finding some truth in the long and tightly held Numismatic Myth that these are undergraded. Perhaps some were and perhaps some of them still intact fit within that category, but many were overgraded or still hold there assigned grade as judged by todays standard. But, are there other reasons to seek out those rattlers, green inserts and no-barcode blue PCGS slabs as well as those oldies in other service holders??
Who would have anticipated the varying controversies that have swirled through the hobby in the past half-decade, issues surrounding Artificial Toning at the top of that short list?? I have several coins in old-holders that would presumably move laterally or up if regraded. My choice is to leave them be for now since I'll be holding long term. Past that, it seems they gain some legitamacy by virtue of the period they were holdered in, though that sword could cut both ways---maybe they were holdered as AT before AT was understood enough to allow detection. What a pickle!!!! I spoke with a trusted member at the ANA Show and he pointed out that when/if I were to sell some of these in the current holder, an interested and knowledgeable buyer might feel better about the holder they're in, also.
I wondered how others felt about this scenario?? Does anyone else have particular reasons for leaving coins in their older-holder??
al h.
Who would have anticipated the varying controversies that have swirled through the hobby in the past half-decade, issues surrounding Artificial Toning at the top of that short list?? I have several coins in old-holders that would presumably move laterally or up if regraded. My choice is to leave them be for now since I'll be holding long term. Past that, it seems they gain some legitamacy by virtue of the period they were holdered in, though that sword could cut both ways---maybe they were holdered as AT before AT was understood enough to allow detection. What a pickle!!!! I spoke with a trusted member at the ANA Show and he pointed out that when/if I were to sell some of these in the current holder, an interested and knowledgeable buyer might feel better about the holder they're in, also.
I wondered how others felt about this scenario?? Does anyone else have particular reasons for leaving coins in their older-holder??
al h.
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Comments
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
For IH's in particular PCGS early rattler slabs still draw a lot of attention. PCGS was generally tough on IHs in the beginning, before they had a feel for what the new MS66 grade should look like. It seems like most of those have been picked over already and what's left is the other end of the spectrum. But every once in a while an undergraded old rattler pops up. This 1909 66RD from the 2003 FUN show comes to mind.
Don't you mean "under-graded" ?
K S
noted and corrected!!
al h.
<< <i> ... one good thing about old holder vs newly graded is stability -- you know it won't retone shortly after you purchase it. >>
EXACTLY! It's a bonus finding a nice example in an old holder. Again, you usually don't have to worry about the coin having been played with.
I am actually hesitant to - heck, I won't - get my Proof 10c's reholdered (the slabs have some hairlines and a few scratches I's like gone), for fear of fingerprints and whatever else. I saw a thread just a day ago or so about this. I am probably "erring" on the side of caution - but thats ok with me. I read somewhere about using 3M rubbing compound on slabs - is this safe? I don't know.
Best,
Billy
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definately PQ - some may well upgrade if I resubmitted them.
I'm holding for the long-term so it makes no sense to send them in for regrade
at this point. I imagine there are many nice coins that have been put away in
the past 5-15 years and are presently sitting in old holders. You just usually
won't see these coins in dealer cases!
Ken
<< <i>I may be restating the obvious and previously posted because either I don't understand or am too lazy to, but wouldn't it make sense that if a coin is still in an old holder there's a pretty decent chance it's there because it's either overgraded or at the proper grade? Haven't the days of buying up old-holdered coins to resubmit them just about ended? >>
Isn't that kind of like saying there aren't many decent raw coins available any more because by now almost all would have been submitted to a third party grading service?
While many coins are probably still in old holders because they don't have a shot at an upgrade, I think there's still the possibility that there are many undergraded coins still available in older holders. There are still a lot of dealers and collectors who don't play the crackout or crossover game.
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
Agreed.......you don't have to worry about toning, carbon, fingerprints, etc rearing there ugly head six months down the road.......and you do still find premium coins in these older holders.....and as always you'll find a few that are overgraded also....
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Unless you're a crackout artist trying for the quick buck I don't see a need to crack a coin out of a rattler. Why take a chance that your coin comes back bodybagged for some reason.
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<< I may be restating the obvious and previously posted because either I don't understand or am too lazy to, but wouldn't it make sense that if a coin is still in an old holder there's a pretty decent chance it's there because it's either overgraded or at the proper grade? Haven't the days of buying up old-holdered coins to resubmit them just about ended? >>
I can just chime in here to say that I went on a slab buying spree about 15 years ago and have about a hundred old slabs scattered all over the place that I haven't looked at in a long time. I have a post on the boards now asking if an old NGC slab could go FB on a Merc in todays grading rooms. I bet there are a lot of collectors like myself that have not looked over their old slabs in a long time. Heck I remember buying Morgan's that were either BU (MS60), CHBU (MS63) or GEMBU (MS65), nothing in between. I bet a lot of those CHBU's and BU's would swing wildly between AU55 and MS65.
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I thought immediately of the market for flat pack proof sets from 1955-64. If someone still has a fair number of these which he knows are not the resealed envelopes often found on eBay, their unopened status makes them worth a gamble to the person looking for gem or cameo proof singles. So many people are now buying the holders rather than the coin that a bona fide unopened proof set would sell for more than the average opened one.
Yes there are some overgraded and AT coins in early holders, but some buyers are convinced that the early holder will upgrade by today's standards regardless. Most of the remaining unopened flat pack proof sets are probably average, but that hasn't stopped curiousity seekers from paying a premium for them.
Thankfully, it's harder to counterfeit a PCGS "rattler" than to reseal a 40-year-old proof set. A few sellers auction off their empty old proof set envelopes to those who market "unopened" proof sets. I haven't yet seen eBay sellers try to auction off old PCGS inserts, but wouldn't be terribly surprised if this is being done already.
Are their new reports of recently counterfeited old slabs?
With so much dipping going on these day (especially with copper) I tend to think the coin may be more stable. Many coins get an odd, hazy, or “funky” look within a few years of being dipped. If I see a really nice large cent, in an early PCGS holder, I figure it will look similar in another 15 years. I’m not nearly as confident of a newly slabbed large cent.
Sadly, there are way too many doctors on the loose these days…and their work can be difficult to detect.
Dave
<< <i>I prefer the original PCGS holdered coins myself, and not because I think they may be undergraded.
With so much dipping going on these day (especially with copper) I tend to think the coin may be more stable. Many coins get an odd, hazy, or “funky” look within a few years of being dipped. If I see a really nice large cent, in an early PCGS holder, I figure it will look similar in another 15 years. I’m not nearly as confident of a newly slabbed large cent.
>>
Good point. Many also say they are worth more in the old slabs, so just leave 'em alone.