Pricing cryptography. How to find out what the dealer paid by codes on the sticker on the slab.

wingedliberty

I could not help but notice, especially with repeat dealers that I buy from and also from shows and their shops. Its interesting, they'll have a small sticker on the front of the coin with the price and another sticker on the back of the slab.
Here is a random example. 1881-S Morgan S$ in PCGS-64, for example's sake, let say he (the dealer) purchased the coin for $28 at bid and the retail gray sheet ask is $40, so here is what I see alot.
, so let says the sticker says BH, so B is the second letter in the alphabet, so the first digit is a 2, (second letter), and the second digit is the eight letter , then H is the eight letter in the alphabet, so the second digit is 8, so he know that BH means he paid $28 for it and has wiggle room if he puts $39 on the front as a retail sticker. This dealer thought it was funny that I figured out his code, but I've known him foreever., so it was fun, other dealers with code it further and put the letter X in between like BXHX, to skip a space to throw you off. I thought it was hysterical.

sliderider

Looks like I'll be examining those little dealer added stickers a bit more closely from now on.

Cameonut

That is a pretty simple system - easy to figure out.

Another code word I have run into is QUICKTRADE. Q=1 , U=2, I=3, etc.

Anyone run into any other codes?

sumnom

Sounds like that dealer needs a more complex code.

ms70

That's interesting. I hate those stickers.

ziggy29

I used to work at a place that used CHARLESTON (C=1, N=0) with an X for a repeated digit. So a cost of $23.38 would have been HAXT.

solid

It is a common system for coin dealers (and many general retailers). Any 10-letter
word made up of 10 unique letters will work.

I suppose it wouldn't be too awfully difficult to decipher any dealer's simple
letter-substitution code if you are good at word games and could look at enough
of their inventory to make some educated guesses. If a coin with an asking price
of between $100-200 has a code of BWY, it is reasonable to assume the B represents 1.
Confirm it with a second similarly priced coin. Then find a coin with an asking price of
around $300 (probable cost of $2xx), etc. If many coins end with the letter Y, it is
reasonable to assume this represents 0.

Unless you are very subtle about this, it also seems like a good way to get yourself
on the dealer's bad side real fast.

roadrunner

Having a cost code works for collectors too, especially if you don't want to be flipping through tons of paper at a show. A simple way around the "0" thing is to use multiple filler letters for zeroes. You can use as many as you like to keep people guessing. It's not a bad idea for all enthusiasts to use. One downside though is making an error by one letter and selling something short....I've done it twice.

Frankly, a code is just a simple first line defense in keeping your cost somewhat hidden from view and to know what you paid for it when things get too busy at a show. I often tell people what I paid anyways if it makes them feel any better.

roadrunner

LanLord

<< <i>I used to work at a place that used CHARLESTON (C=1, N=0) with an X for a repeated digit. So a cost of $23.38 would have been HAXT. >>

Ziggy, that's interesting, I know of a dealer that uses that same code (although I'm not sure on the X for repeats).

khayse

> Unless you are very subtle about this, it also seems like a good way to get yourself on the dealer's bad side real fast.

But why would a dealer care if I know what he paid for a coin?

-KHayse

Barry

<< <i>But why would a dealer care if I know what he paid for a coin? >>


Conversely, why do you care what a dealer paid for a coin? If he overpaid for it, would that make it OK for you to overpay even more? If he ripped it from a little old lady, should he pass that along to you?

khayse

>Conversely, why do you care what a dealer paid for a coin?
I don't think most in this thread do care. I assume most are doing it for the fun of breaking codes.

I was thinking the same thing though, so I know the dealer paid $150. What can I do with that info? I can't tell the dealer,
"hey you paid $150, so sell it to me for $165." That will just annoy him. I can base my offer on what I think the minimum
mark-up he'll take but I really will only be guessing.

It would be interesting to figure out after the fact what mark-up an average dealer would accept but that would require
too many data points for me to gather.

-KHayse

jom

What Barry said.

jom

ziggy29

<< <i>Conversely, why do you care what a dealer paid for a coin? If he overpaid for it, would that make it OK for you to overpay even more? If he ripped it from a little old lady, should he pass that along to you? >>

True, I guess. If I'm willing to pay $100 for a coin, it matters not to me whether the dealer paid $10 or $90. Just the same, it might be interesting to get a glance into what a "typical" profit margin might be -- though it certainly varies, as some illiquid stuff that will sit in a display case for months might see a dealer pay you 50 cents on the dollar, where as quality, certified stuff the dealer can turn over very quickly might have them pay you 80-90 cents on the dollar.

wingedliberty

I find it fascinating that so many have experienced this. Its actually kind of fun, but I agree, one should keep their mouth shut unless they are friends with the dealer and/or have a long standing relationship where you can joke a little.

TomB

I also carry a code on the flips and slabs of coins that I sell, however, you wouldn't be able to determine what I paid for a coin based upon my code. This is because I code the date that I bought the coin, not the price. For most coins, I remember what I paid for them relatively easily, but if I forget I always have a spreadsheet with the date and price listed.

nwcs

One local dealer uses roman numerals for the first digit and then the positional for the last. Like VH for 58.

mgoodm3

interesting. I'll have to look in the future.

agentjim007

To find out a dealers code sell him a coin then look at it later and see the code. atleast you'll know a few of his code letters

jdimmick

Ever since I was young, I used to be facsinated about the dealers use of a code system for pricing. I used to try and figure out what it was. Still to this day, several of the old timers use codes in thier shops locally. I know two of the dealers systems, one uses an alphabet with an extra o and x character and the other a 10 letter word. I carry a small inventory of never no more than 50 coins at a given time, so I dont have to use a code as I can remember that many easily with out having to code them.

jim

wingedliberty

Its interesting that your fascination goes back that far, Mine does also, I used to wonder in the 80's when slabs came out, when I went to shows, I wondered what does codes were.

fountainheadgold

the longer you buy from a dealer who uses codes it becomes easy to break the code, but i fiqured a long time ago that i did not care what the dearler paid if i like it and the price is fair, buy it

pursuitofliberty

interesting post ... I used to know a local dealers code (we aren't local anymore), and I have one of my own. Both mine and his were 9 letter words/phrases, with random letters for zero's

Wisconsin

local dealer's code is:

Black Horse
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