My thoughts and experiences in the World Series of Grading and the ANA convention.
SethChandler
Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭
WOW! What a contest, to say the least!
Ever since the contest was announced(was it already a year ago?) I was excited. Its a cool idea. How many of us "collectors" wanted to see how we stand vs. big bad coin dealers in an unbiased competition? 100 coins up, 100 coins coins down. I first took the qualifying round in Long Beach over the summer. I didn't really know how to formulate a goal, but I did know that if I my score was at least 75% of what the big boys got, I would be happy. The qualifying round that I entered, a few dealers got around an 80/82, I got a 63, which made me happy, but still, I was anxious to see if could qualify for the finals. I knew there was going to be alot more coins, most importantly high powered and a diverse mix of stuff. Well, I qualified and it was off to Pittburgh!
The ANA convention was the best I've ever been too. I went to the one in NYC a few yrs ago, and a couple in the late 1980's. The exhibits were the best! Two 1913 Nickels, two 1804 Dollars, the King of Siam set(that makes three) the 1866 No Motto silver set, 1861 Twenty Lib paquet rev MS67(isn't really a pattern?), 1794 Dollar SP66, the most amazing Three Dollar gold set......I'm telling you it was my favorite set of gold coins that I have ever seen. I wish the owner was a boardmember here, I sure would like to ask him a few ?'s and let him/her know how much I appreciate the opportunity to view the set. There must have been a handfull of MS67s, the 1854-D looked surperb, quite reflective.
There were two sets that will be forever in my memory, fellow boardmembers' Tradedollarnut's set of Seated Dollars, and Cardinal's set of Bust Dollars. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!!!!!! That is some serious coinage! TDN was incredibly nice enough to let Oreville and I view the sey in person. BTW, that was my first time meeting Oreville, great meeting ya, Oreville! He is very passionate about coins. A true collector's collector. We've got to spend more time together. TDN's set is a sight to behold! To hold the finest known 1870-S Seated Dollar is an incredible rush. You try to tell yourself that it is just a regular coin, but that thought doesn't last, you are holding the finest known coin of a classic American rarity. My next favoite coin in the set, was the 1873-CC. It looked like a speciman strike. Rather prooflike. You know what they say, Carson City made the best deep mirrored Proof like dollars! The one suprising thing that I left with after viewing the set was there wasn't ant junky overgraded coins. You know, there are dozens of coins graded 65,66...you'd think there would be a few dark ugly coins. Not a one. A true testament to the eye of the owner. He's got it.
Cardinal's set of Bust Dollars was equally amazing, except, I was unable to view it in person. Cardinal, if you read this I'd like to meet you! The highlights of the set to me was the pair of 1794 Dollars. The MS64 is truly exceptional and certainly one of the finest. Pure very, very choice BU. Practically unimprovable. The AU58, is really a Gem AU++++ with moster toning and astounding luster. A great looking original coin. Cardinal, I believe this is new coin in your collection, can you tell us about it? It is mind blowing the condition of the other coins in the set, numerous 64 and 65 coins...and remember these are Bust Dollars!
As a footnote to people that exhibit coins, don't build a fancy glass cabinet to show off your coin. You can't see the coin. I had to pass on looking at the 1913 Nickels, 1866, and 1804 Dollars because you can't see them! They are usually about 5 feet off the ground and viewed at a flat 90 degree angle, you can't really rotate the coin in the light to properly see it. Do other people share my view? The best are the good old fashioned bourse cases.
I was away overseas on vacation for 5 weeks, and I left my wife and two kids early to be at the ANA show. I arrived in NYC from Istanbul on a Thurday and flew out to Pittsburgh on Friday. When I arrived, I made a beeline over to a very good coin dealer friend of mine, James Essence. I had him submit a few coins to PCGS for me before I left on vacation. I meet Jim at an ANA Summer seminar when I was 13 and he was 14. This was back in 1986. We've been great friends ever since. Sometimes I really do belive that it is the people that you meet, not the coins that make this hobby so wonderful. My coins came out OK. I had an NGC MS63 1907 High Relief Saint that crossed as a 63. I had a 1885-CC Morgan NGC MS65 that I bought at a local show here recently that I new was better. I cracked it out and PCGS called it a 66. Yes, contrary to what you read on these boards, it really can happen. I bought a raw AU 1804 Early five dollar gold for a great price that I felt had a shot at 60/61. Fellow collectors, NEVER buy a raw early gold coin at a good price unless you really know what you are doing. Pcgs graded it AU58. Every dealer that I showed it to said they could easily see it in a BU holder, just have to hit 'em at the right time. Decent submission.
Back to the contest, I think it was 50 coins 45 minutes, something like that. The first thing that I realized was that I forgot my loop. So I ran over to my friend Jim to borrow his. Problem was, it was, like one of those 60x loops. Like a pocket microscope. Totally irrelivent to coin grading. Jim is an error nut, very minor varities he gets excited over, hence the loop. So I just didn't use one.
One of the first coins was a practically perfect MS68 five lib gold. Right away I new this contest was going to be difficult, not just the grading the coins aspect. But the mere fact that you are holding an MS68 gold coin in your hands. Sure you grade it in about ten seconds, but you want to take you time and ohhh and ahhh over the coin for 20 minutes. How many of you handled a Ms68 gold coin? See what I'm saying. Now I have a sense of what it is like to be a judge at the Miss America contest. Your human instincts take over and all your thoughts consist of OHHH and AHHH and a few other things, but somehow you have to collect your thoughts, assign a number, and move on to the next one.
My favorite coin was the 1799 Ten Dollar MS64. Very fresh and original. Dealers...what would that coin sell for? I also loved the 1863 Quarter. Beautifully toned I called it a 67, but it was a 66. There was a twenty lib that I called 67 that was a 66 that I felt it was a perfect match for the 68 five lib. The selection was very nice. Not too many moderns. Lots of neat early gold. I'm sure it would be much more represenative if there were 100 to 150 coins but that would be to drawn out.
They announced the results on Saturday at 2pm , but I had to leave by 1pm to catch my flight. TDN pm'ed me to let me know that someone took the test around the same time that I did and got second place, and he suspected that it was me. Thanks for the vote of confodence, TDN. I ended up getting third place with a score of 65. It looks like the avg score for the top ten dealers was around a 78/79, therrfore I'm quite happy. Looking forward to doin' it
again.
The grading contest was a lot of fun, especially meeting with others too see how they graded a particular coin.
I'll add more about my dealer experiences and what I bought at the show soon.
Your thoughts comments are appreciated!
Seth
PS NOT edited for spelling, who'd want to edit all this?
Ever since the contest was announced(was it already a year ago?) I was excited. Its a cool idea. How many of us "collectors" wanted to see how we stand vs. big bad coin dealers in an unbiased competition? 100 coins up, 100 coins coins down. I first took the qualifying round in Long Beach over the summer. I didn't really know how to formulate a goal, but I did know that if I my score was at least 75% of what the big boys got, I would be happy. The qualifying round that I entered, a few dealers got around an 80/82, I got a 63, which made me happy, but still, I was anxious to see if could qualify for the finals. I knew there was going to be alot more coins, most importantly high powered and a diverse mix of stuff. Well, I qualified and it was off to Pittburgh!
The ANA convention was the best I've ever been too. I went to the one in NYC a few yrs ago, and a couple in the late 1980's. The exhibits were the best! Two 1913 Nickels, two 1804 Dollars, the King of Siam set(that makes three) the 1866 No Motto silver set, 1861 Twenty Lib paquet rev MS67(isn't really a pattern?), 1794 Dollar SP66, the most amazing Three Dollar gold set......I'm telling you it was my favorite set of gold coins that I have ever seen. I wish the owner was a boardmember here, I sure would like to ask him a few ?'s and let him/her know how much I appreciate the opportunity to view the set. There must have been a handfull of MS67s, the 1854-D looked surperb, quite reflective.
There were two sets that will be forever in my memory, fellow boardmembers' Tradedollarnut's set of Seated Dollars, and Cardinal's set of Bust Dollars. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!!!!!! That is some serious coinage! TDN was incredibly nice enough to let Oreville and I view the sey in person. BTW, that was my first time meeting Oreville, great meeting ya, Oreville! He is very passionate about coins. A true collector's collector. We've got to spend more time together. TDN's set is a sight to behold! To hold the finest known 1870-S Seated Dollar is an incredible rush. You try to tell yourself that it is just a regular coin, but that thought doesn't last, you are holding the finest known coin of a classic American rarity. My next favoite coin in the set, was the 1873-CC. It looked like a speciman strike. Rather prooflike. You know what they say, Carson City made the best deep mirrored Proof like dollars! The one suprising thing that I left with after viewing the set was there wasn't ant junky overgraded coins. You know, there are dozens of coins graded 65,66...you'd think there would be a few dark ugly coins. Not a one. A true testament to the eye of the owner. He's got it.
Cardinal's set of Bust Dollars was equally amazing, except, I was unable to view it in person. Cardinal, if you read this I'd like to meet you! The highlights of the set to me was the pair of 1794 Dollars. The MS64 is truly exceptional and certainly one of the finest. Pure very, very choice BU. Practically unimprovable. The AU58, is really a Gem AU++++ with moster toning and astounding luster. A great looking original coin. Cardinal, I believe this is new coin in your collection, can you tell us about it? It is mind blowing the condition of the other coins in the set, numerous 64 and 65 coins...and remember these are Bust Dollars!
As a footnote to people that exhibit coins, don't build a fancy glass cabinet to show off your coin. You can't see the coin. I had to pass on looking at the 1913 Nickels, 1866, and 1804 Dollars because you can't see them! They are usually about 5 feet off the ground and viewed at a flat 90 degree angle, you can't really rotate the coin in the light to properly see it. Do other people share my view? The best are the good old fashioned bourse cases.
I was away overseas on vacation for 5 weeks, and I left my wife and two kids early to be at the ANA show. I arrived in NYC from Istanbul on a Thurday and flew out to Pittsburgh on Friday. When I arrived, I made a beeline over to a very good coin dealer friend of mine, James Essence. I had him submit a few coins to PCGS for me before I left on vacation. I meet Jim at an ANA Summer seminar when I was 13 and he was 14. This was back in 1986. We've been great friends ever since. Sometimes I really do belive that it is the people that you meet, not the coins that make this hobby so wonderful. My coins came out OK. I had an NGC MS63 1907 High Relief Saint that crossed as a 63. I had a 1885-CC Morgan NGC MS65 that I bought at a local show here recently that I new was better. I cracked it out and PCGS called it a 66. Yes, contrary to what you read on these boards, it really can happen. I bought a raw AU 1804 Early five dollar gold for a great price that I felt had a shot at 60/61. Fellow collectors, NEVER buy a raw early gold coin at a good price unless you really know what you are doing. Pcgs graded it AU58. Every dealer that I showed it to said they could easily see it in a BU holder, just have to hit 'em at the right time. Decent submission.
Back to the contest, I think it was 50 coins 45 minutes, something like that. The first thing that I realized was that I forgot my loop. So I ran over to my friend Jim to borrow his. Problem was, it was, like one of those 60x loops. Like a pocket microscope. Totally irrelivent to coin grading. Jim is an error nut, very minor varities he gets excited over, hence the loop. So I just didn't use one.
One of the first coins was a practically perfect MS68 five lib gold. Right away I new this contest was going to be difficult, not just the grading the coins aspect. But the mere fact that you are holding an MS68 gold coin in your hands. Sure you grade it in about ten seconds, but you want to take you time and ohhh and ahhh over the coin for 20 minutes. How many of you handled a Ms68 gold coin? See what I'm saying. Now I have a sense of what it is like to be a judge at the Miss America contest. Your human instincts take over and all your thoughts consist of OHHH and AHHH and a few other things, but somehow you have to collect your thoughts, assign a number, and move on to the next one.
My favorite coin was the 1799 Ten Dollar MS64. Very fresh and original. Dealers...what would that coin sell for? I also loved the 1863 Quarter. Beautifully toned I called it a 67, but it was a 66. There was a twenty lib that I called 67 that was a 66 that I felt it was a perfect match for the 68 five lib. The selection was very nice. Not too many moderns. Lots of neat early gold. I'm sure it would be much more represenative if there were 100 to 150 coins but that would be to drawn out.
They announced the results on Saturday at 2pm , but I had to leave by 1pm to catch my flight. TDN pm'ed me to let me know that someone took the test around the same time that I did and got second place, and he suspected that it was me. Thanks for the vote of confodence, TDN. I ended up getting third place with a score of 65. It looks like the avg score for the top ten dealers was around a 78/79, therrfore I'm quite happy. Looking forward to doin' it
again.
The grading contest was a lot of fun, especially meeting with others too see how they graded a particular coin.
I'll add more about my dealer experiences and what I bought at the show soon.
Your thoughts comments are appreciated!
Seth
PS NOT edited for spelling, who'd want to edit all this?
Collecting since 1976.
0
Comments
Looks like you had a great time. Wish I could have been there,
probably drooling all over myself.
I too was blown away by the $3 set--as I have written elsewhere, it was the best exhibit that no one is talking about. The other exhibits pretty much speak for themselves: megararities, unique and top rare coins, and phenomenal sets. It was my first ANA, so I figured it was always like this--little did I know!
I am sorry we did not have the opportunity to meet.
As you and I are one of the few members who loves gold, do you know anything about that Three Dollar set? I sure wish the owner was a member? Did you see the 1865 MS67*? The 1854-D? WOW!
What do you think that set is worth?
Congrats on your placed finished in the contest. I was a little dissapointed that I didnt place this time in the finals, but my inexperience in gold really hurt me in this round. I missed two counterfiet gold, the 1855 $3 and the 1914 Indian 5$ and undergraded quite a few of the other gold coins like the no motto 20. The coin was super nice but I was nervous about putting 65 down, and come to find out it was a 6.
I also missed the counterfiet cinn commem , but had I read the darn 2nd edition of the PCGS book, I probably would have recognized it.
But all in all it was fun, definitely a learning experience and the second time in my life where I see that I really needd to learn more about gold coins.
jim d
Actually, my first impulse was to look at the 54-D $3. It was an AU-55, and it was plenty nice and original. However, the more rare dates in the series were stunners: 1865, 1877, some of the S-mint dates, etc.
I guess in a more typical ANA convention without 1913 nickels, without the 1866-P No Mottos, without the 1804's and the King of Siam set and without the super high-grade early silver dollar sets, this $3 set would be getting its props.
I would similarly like to know more about it. I do not care who owns, but would be interested to know what dealers participated, how long it took to assemble, the presence of pedigreed coins, whether it will be up for auction soon, etc.
It was in the gold coin section of the exhibit area, adjacent to a set of Indian quarter eagles. Very easy to miss: no police guard, no upright or rotating display, no attack ferrets, etc.
Thanks for the great write-up. And congrats on your success.
<< <i>Your human instincts take over and all your thoughts consist of OHHH and AHHH and a few other things, but somehow you have to collect your thoughts, assign a number, and move on to the next one. >>
Your insticts are right. With coins like that forget about assignning a grade. The grade doesn't matter.
C'mon