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GOETZ: Christhead and 10K Post
cacheman
Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭
Hi All, I wanted to make a special post for the marking of my 10,000th post here at CU and couldn’t have had a better Goetz piece than this to celebrate the occasion with. As a matter of fact, I have been holding on to this medal for several months in anticipation. I was lucky enough to win this piece in a German auction at the first of July and am still in awe of its beauty.
I contacted Gunter Kienast shortly after receiving this piece and this is what he had to say;
“Hi, Scott: It is indeed a fine specimen of Goetz's talent to craft beautiful portraits. I am almost certain that the number 698 is from Karl Goetz's hand. Because the theme of 698 is marriage, and Christ has been a symbol of weddings on several Goetz medals.
It pays sometimes to re-read ones book. I browsed through my Volume II and find an interesting little note on page ix. The last paragraph on page ix of the book, mentioned the history of the so-called Druckbuch (proof book). I now remember how it came to the use of this book. When visiting Guido Goetz in person in his house in Munich in June 1985 it became quite clear that a number of medals were cut into dies by Karl Goetz, but were not listed in Volume I. I am not sure, but believe, that the Druckbook was numbered by Karl Goetz during his lifetime, continuous from the last symbolic medal of his life as opus 633. When one looks at opus 698 we know that a Hans Brunner married a Julia Miller in the city of Augsburg on Feb. 1911 How then, one wonders, does the image of Christ on your unlisted piece, connects to the die cut of 698? My theory is that (may be) a later version was planned to join the Christhead with the die cut image of opus 698. Whether it became reality, we may not ever know. I go one step further and guess that Karl Goetz would not just have made a new medal with both images, but also would have completed it with some words on the Christhead side. Again, just speculation. A Sherlock Holmes however, would not have rested until he would have interviewed all the parties to the deed. It would be most interesting to follow the provenance of the Christhead design. Who were the previous owners, what do they know about Mr. and Mrs. Brunner?
But my thoughts may go way beyond the "collecting of commemorative medals" angle. Needless to say, this your latest acquisition is a credit to your dedication to Karl Goetz medals. I cannot help myself, even now, after looking at it time after time, I believe the Christhead design is incomplete. I believe every word when you say that the medal "belies the actual beauty of the piece". One can sense that!
Take care, Scott
Gunter .”
This piece is unique and my most prized Goetz acquisition to date. My only hope is that all of you can receive some enjoyment from it too.
Christhead (Christuskopf, No Date (o.j.) presumed 1911, 49mm, Cu-silverplate (versilbert), uniface (einseitig), XF (Vorzüglich), UNIQUE
And while I have your attention, I'd like to thank all of you darksiders for making this forum what it is!! Scott
I contacted Gunter Kienast shortly after receiving this piece and this is what he had to say;
“Hi, Scott: It is indeed a fine specimen of Goetz's talent to craft beautiful portraits. I am almost certain that the number 698 is from Karl Goetz's hand. Because the theme of 698 is marriage, and Christ has been a symbol of weddings on several Goetz medals.
It pays sometimes to re-read ones book. I browsed through my Volume II and find an interesting little note on page ix. The last paragraph on page ix of the book, mentioned the history of the so-called Druckbuch (proof book). I now remember how it came to the use of this book. When visiting Guido Goetz in person in his house in Munich in June 1985 it became quite clear that a number of medals were cut into dies by Karl Goetz, but were not listed in Volume I. I am not sure, but believe, that the Druckbook was numbered by Karl Goetz during his lifetime, continuous from the last symbolic medal of his life as opus 633. When one looks at opus 698 we know that a Hans Brunner married a Julia Miller in the city of Augsburg on Feb. 1911 How then, one wonders, does the image of Christ on your unlisted piece, connects to the die cut of 698? My theory is that (may be) a later version was planned to join the Christhead with the die cut image of opus 698. Whether it became reality, we may not ever know. I go one step further and guess that Karl Goetz would not just have made a new medal with both images, but also would have completed it with some words on the Christhead side. Again, just speculation. A Sherlock Holmes however, would not have rested until he would have interviewed all the parties to the deed. It would be most interesting to follow the provenance of the Christhead design. Who were the previous owners, what do they know about Mr. and Mrs. Brunner?
But my thoughts may go way beyond the "collecting of commemorative medals" angle. Needless to say, this your latest acquisition is a credit to your dedication to Karl Goetz medals. I cannot help myself, even now, after looking at it time after time, I believe the Christhead design is incomplete. I believe every word when you say that the medal "belies the actual beauty of the piece". One can sense that!
Take care, Scott
Gunter .”
This piece is unique and my most prized Goetz acquisition to date. My only hope is that all of you can receive some enjoyment from it too.
Christhead (Christuskopf, No Date (o.j.) presumed 1911, 49mm, Cu-silverplate (versilbert), uniface (einseitig), XF (Vorzüglich), UNIQUE
And while I have your attention, I'd like to thank all of you darksiders for making this forum what it is!! Scott
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Comments
09/07/2006
P.S. Have you chosen a title yet?
09/07/2006
BTW, What do you do to get the title? Do you have to contact Admin?
karlgoetzmedals.com
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WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
How about somehting along the lines of "Official Forum Troll Slayer"
09/07/2006
The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
Guns have only two enemies, rust and liberals.
Criminals love gun control, it makes their profession safer.
If guns are outlawed can we use swords?
A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Happy 10K
Congratulations on your 10,000th!!
Buenissimo!
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
09/07/2006
Askari, this is a cast piece...I know it can become confusing due to the quality of Goetz's casting expertise. What I wonder about it is why he went to the trouble to incise his signature into the piece if it was just a trial...also, why would he go to the trouble to plate in silver too? I am going to take Gunters suggestion and see if I can find out anything from the auctionhouse as to the previous owners...not always possible but I have to try.
karlgoetzmedals.com
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<< <i>What I wonder about it is why he went to the trouble to incise his signature into the piece if it was just a trial...also, why would he go to the trouble to plate in silver too? >>
I've seen cast trial pieces with incised signatures. Maybe it was a sort of "copyright"; I don't know for sure. As for plating, well, if it's a trial piece, he'd certainly want to know what it looked like. Medal designs vary in which metal best shows them off. Often, IMHO, bronze looks better than silver, but there are designs that look better in silver than in bronze. Alternatively, it's cheaper to cast a silverplated bronze than a silver medal trial.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
karlgoetzmedals.com
secessionistmedals.com
this forum was a fascinating thing,
peopled by strange characters
with odd names. Over time,
these anonymous figures became personalities
with a variety of numismatic gifts.
One of my earliest appreciations
was of Cacheman, an enigmatic figure
cloaked as Fat Freddy, who showed
exquisite medals and coins.
I have learned much from him
(as well as others), and visit
his Goetz web page often.
He has now exhibited the persistence
necessary to be named as he would be-
no small feat! 10,000 posts...
More than a few of which showed off a wit
at once gentle or scathing as the
opportunity required.
More than that, he has provided interested forum members
with an invaluable education on pieces
they might never have been aware of otherwise.
He has created a website which stands tall
in the internet world and will no doubt
become a leading Goetz authority.
He has epitomized what a forum member
should be- an educator in his field, willing
to help any who need it.
So now, how do I congratulate you?
Why, by saying goetz thee to a distillery!
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
karlgoetzmedals.com
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Shep
I have learned much from your pictures and your posts about Mr. Goetz. I thank you for that.
Clankeye
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
Good luck. Everytime I've asked question about current or previous owners from auction houses they refused siting that is privileged and private information.
09/07/2006
Me too, but sometimes in europe if one dealer/auctionhouse doesn't tell you another might or they will make contact for you and ask the previous owner to initiate contact with the new owner if they are so inclined. Not always but sometimes.
karlgoetzmedals.com
secessionistmedals.com