I need an honest vote on these coins (no bashing please)

MrPlatinum

I recently bought a set of PCGS Silver Eagles.

I paid $730 for these including shipping.


Mitch can you tell me would you sell these coins with these types of spots?

Also, if you sold them, would you accept for your client to return them if unhappy?


I'm not going to say who I bought these from, until the vote is over next week.

Bochiman

I would ask if you had inquired if these had spots prior to the purchase.
They can have spots and still be technically graded MS69.
imho, the 89 and 90 really suck as the milkiness are very noticeable and distracting.

But, did you "buy the grade/TPGS" and not the coin? That would be the question to know.
I would guess, since you were surprised, that you didn't buy these "sight seen" and you bought the grades.
If there were pics, they either really sucked or you didn't notice them.

Did you pay over going value for these? If so, how much?
If you paid under, then just resell them on ebay. Right?

wondercoin

Leo: Your pictures clearly show why PCGS is reluctant to slab MS70 Silver Eagles these days. Some coins have been known to "turn" in the holders. I actually had an order for a complete set last year and I bought a board member's collection which contained coins just like the ones in your pictures. I decided to go on the open market and buy another set, combine the best coins from my 2 sets and create an "OK" set to fill my order. I probably still have the spotty coins buried in a box around here The board member meant no harm - he had not looked at the set in ages and when he bought the coins, they looked nothing like what was shipped to me. MOST Silver Eagles are just fine after years in the holder, but, some can "turn".

Wondercoin

P.S Bochiman - I agree that it is possible that MS69 graded Eagles could still be MS69's even with some spots.

MrPlatinum

I bought these on eBay, I asked the seller if they had problems, they said NO they look good.


The pictures of the coins I bought on eBay are not the coins I got from this seller.

Basically I got screwed, with misrepresented coins, that were not the same coins shown on the eBay scan.


I would never ever never ever send someone coins that looked this bad.

But that's just me.

MrPlatinum

Mitch send me an email I'll tell you who the seller is.


I dont want this to turn into a bashing contest.

I just want to get everyone's opinion before I rip this guy a new anus.


The coins he put on eBay are not the coins he shipped.

In my opinion not only that's a scumbag move, it's fraud.

I've already escaladed this to Angel at the ANA, and my next step when I get home from Pittsburgh is to let my lawyer handle this.


This guy's wife is a rude you know what, and basically told me to eat the coins or take it up with DH.

I would be 100% fine with this if the person disclosed in their auction that the coins were spotted.

MrPlatinum

One more note, this seller also did this to a couple other eBay buyers for a tune of just over $12,000 bucks.

4 negatives in 2 weeks over spotted misrepresented coins with pictures so small you cant tell what you're buying much less if it's the actual coin.


The other thing that gets to me, he's gotten negs for this, then turns around and negs right back without just cause.


Notice how I'm not saying who the seller is until I get everyone's opinon on this, even Russ is welcomed to voice his opinion on this one.

MrPlatinum

Here's the auction pictures...









Here's the acutal coins...







Basically I lost a 30k+ deal due to this b/s, I had a complete set in all denominations of MS-69 gold, platinum, silver sold to one client, until he saw what the silver set looked like.

I normally wouldnt buy a set like this sight unseen, but I was pressed with time due to the Pittsburgh show, this is the only reason I bought these.

I could have used a WTC silver eagle set, but my client wanted normal slabs.


Hopefully I can make up for lost time before I head out to the Olympics next week.

This deal screwed up my vacation

bushmaster8

<< <i>
The coins he put on eBay are not the coins he shipped.

In my opinion not only that's a scumbag move, it's fraud.

I've already escaladed this to Angel at the ANA, and my next step when I get home from Pittsburgh is to let my lawyer handle this.


>>



Unless the seller specifically stated in the auction that the coins pictured are the coins you will recieve, I think you would be wasting time and money on a lawyer IMHO. I don't think this is fraudulent. Sellers that do this are scum, I agree, but legally, he is clean.

RBinTex

I don't thinl the pics are working???

goose3

PCGS says ms69 so they MUST be ms69.

Those look horrible and I certainly wouldn't want them. Return them.

kieferscoins

<< <i>I've already escaladed this to Angel at the ANA, and my next step when I get home from Pittsburgh is to let my lawyer handle this >>



Will the seller accept a return?

Cameron Kiefer

eye

As a collector I look for strike, luster, hits, and eye appeal. Your (these) coins may be "technically" MS69 but they lack the all important "eye appeal" because of the milky spots. I or any of my collector friends would not purchase these coins as MS69 because they have "appeal" problems. An honest person would not sell these coins without telling the buyer about the problems or offering to take back the coins if the buyer was not happy. Sellers like this guy are what hurts our hobby and I hope you find a way to get your money back.
Donn

Datentype

MrPlatinum, after reading your past posts, you have so much money, i would think that you could just spend them at the store

rlawsha

PCGS coins slabbed as MS69 can be sold for X amount of dollars sight unseen. The holder is what is being bought and sold in those cases. If you are unhappy with the quality of the coins then ask PCGS to regrade them and you will be compensated for any downgrades.

I think your only other option is if you can document an interaction between you and the seller about the coins being pictured in the auction the same ones you will receive.

As far as asking him 'if there were any problems with the coins' before purchase 'fails' because his idea of a problem and your idea of a problem are two different things.

IrishMike

There is no way if you cracked those out PCGS would regrade them as 69's. Mr Platinum you stated that the seller had been negged for this before but you still bought from them, why?

MoneyLA

I cannot view your links of the eBay pictures, so this question: did the eBay pictures show the cert numbers on the slabs? If they are different slabs the seller indeed defrauded you UNLESS there was a statement that the photo did not represent the actual coins in the auction.

If he used "tight shots" of the coins without the slab cert numbers then you have a fight on your hands to prove he is liable for a "switch."

If you found the slabs were switched -- and you were sent slabs with different cert numbers from the auction listing, go after him.

If you got coins without proof that the slabs were switched you can go after the seller OR you can indeed seek out PCGS for its protection and guarantee policy.

Several years ago I sold an MS67 Morgan on ebay and the buyer thought the coin was not a true MS67. While returning the coin to PCGS for review was an option, I simply refunded the buyers money.

If this guy has a reputation to protect he should help you resolve the matter and not give you grief.

cheers, alan mendelson

rlawsha

I think these are the original photos from the auction....

COINDOG

<< <i>I cannot view your links of the eBay pictures, so this question: did the eBay pictures show the cert numbers on the slabs? If they are different slabs the seller indeed defrauded you UNLESS there was a statement that the photo did not represent the actual coins in the auction.

If he used "tight shots" of the coins without the slab cert numbers then you have a fight on your hands to prove he is liable for a "switch."

If you found the slabs were switched -- and you were sent slabs with different cert numbers from the auction listing, go after him.

If you got coins without proof that the slabs were switched you can go after the seller OR you can indeed seek out PCGS for its protection and guarantee policy.

Several years ago I sold an MS67 Morgan on ebay and the buyer thought the coin was not a true MS67. While returning the coin to PCGS for review was an option, I simply refunded the buyers money.

If this guy has a reputation to protect he should help you resolve the matter and not give you grief.

I Agree. The Seller Will Take Them Back , If They Value Their Reputation. If They Don't, Then I Would Not Buy From Them, Because I Wuold Expect More Of The Same For Myself !!!!!
cheers, alan mendelson >>

rlawsha

Take a close look at what I posted. The coins appear to be in date order at the top starting in 1986. Therefore the 5th coin should be a 1990. You can see the spot on the 1990 in the auction photo and compare it to the photo of the 1990 that Triplex took. It appears he got the actual coins in the auction photo. Now, the auction photos aren't that great but at least one point is settled.

MrPlatinum

Datentype

Come on buddy, this is a matter of principal not who has what.

In your opinion what would you do if this were you, never mind me.


Also, I asked the seller as did quite a few other sellers that got spotted coins, each time the seller said they are NOT SPOTTED coins which have resulted in 4 negatives, in 2 weeks, not only that I'm sure there are going to be quite a few more as others that have bought this junk from this seller are now starting to complain.


Not only that, if anyone has won any item from this seller, make sure you take this up with eBay and the ANA before leaving negative feedbacks, this person has now resorted to posting retaliatory feedbacks for no reason.

Trust me there was no reason for him to leave a negative, he got paid on time, only after the questions were answered as to whether the coins had spots or not, they lied send out junk, then neg'd me.

Russ

Maybe somebody should invite Jay Parrino to this thread so we can hear the other side of the story.

Russ, NCNE

MrPlatinum

Russ there is no other side of the story, I did my job paid the guy his rude wife kept saying sorry no refunds eventhough they are junk coins.

Everyone at the ANA that has seen these, have said man what's up with him lately.

Also Russ, check out his negs bud, I know we don't get along, but what's wrong is wrong.

Also this has nothing to do with our disagreements, I'm glad we're having a decent discussion about this.

As you can see I'm not naming any names, and have not resorting to bashing anyone here.

I just want an honest opinion of all that read this thread.

Nothing more nothing less.


If this was done to you Russ I'm sure you would have done a thread by now, not only that you would be hopping mad as well.

goose3

is the seller a member of the ANA? PNG?

MrPlatinum

Oh Russ,

I highly doubt that this person would come in here, heck he doesn't even answer his phones, also the ANA does not have an address to send him correspondence.


He has his (wife?) or a woman that claims to be his wife answer the phones and she's in charge of customer service, other people have complained to her about their spotted coins.

She's a very rude person, and snaps at everyone that calls and wants to speak directly to the owner.

Never once have I head of someone that's had a complaint get thru to the actual owner.

You guys can even ask user Mistakin another ebay seller that just got his set today, in that auction it said the coins were not spotted yet he got 2 of the key coins that were just as spotted as mine.

Now if you tell me if that's misrepresentation or what?

other spotted coin auction


This person also filed a complaint today and was told we'll think about it.

You can also ask Wayne, how rude this person is, they never thank anyone, much less tell people if they got paid, that is a totally different issue.


I beg to differ but when a client demands a logical explanation, and or a refund I cheerfully answer their questions generally as fast as humanly possible, and if they still want a refund I give it to them no questions asked.

This is my company policy since day one.

I just cant see why he does not cheerfully refund the money to each person that has filed a complaint instead of now looking at a legal battle.

I've already handed this to a lawyer which is going to look at this closely and also talk to others that have had the same exact problem as I have.

Regardless what happens, it's going to cost him 1000's in legal fees.

I guess at this point I'll leave this to a judge to decide.

Russ

<< <i>Russ there is no other side of the story >>



There are always two sides to every story.



<< <i>As you can see I'm not naming any names, and have not resorting to bashing anyone here. >>



Yes, I did notice that. This is a dramatic change for you. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Parrino could buy and sell you with his dresser change, and eats guys like you for lunch. Not the usual chump you're used to threatening.



<< <i>I just want an honest opinion of all that read this thread. >>



My honest opinion is that the coins look like sh!t. I'm also a big believer in karma.

Russ, NCNE

MrPlatinum

Yes a life member of the ANA that has handled million dollar (per coin)


Go figure someone that has a reputation of handling million dollar coins now has a reputation of selling 1000's of dollars worth of junk coins on eBay.


The only thing I can figure out is... He's hurting for $ only people that resort to these types of things are the ones that are having a cash flow problem.


Even if I was desperate for funds I would not resort to that type of activity.


I would rather sleep in a cardboard box under an overpass than destroy my name selling junk.

Eventually the market will rebound and I would be ok again.


I just do not understand this person's logic.


When I said this person's Customer service needed a major overhaul I was no kidding, just keep your eye out this is just the tip of the iceberg.


I now wonder how many people have filed a fraud complaint and what his liability is under a L.L.C.

MrPlatinum

Thanks for your support Russ.


This is why I plan on battling him.

Like I told his wife look what happened to Goliath for messing with David.


If he has so much money then Russ tell me, why is resorting to selling this type of junk?

The only reason I bid on these items, was thinking they were superior coins I could pair up with my coins and make a decent sale.

Not only I lost the sale, I lost the money on these coins, and took a slap in the face.


If it was something I did fine and dandy, but this is now a matter of principal, even if I have to give up a percentage of my platinum to fight this in court so be it.

A judge will be the one who makes the determination on who's in the right or wrong.

goose3

doesn't part of being a member of the ANA mean that you are "required" to offer a return period?

MrPlatinum

Yes it does Goose.


Check out what a good client has said and sent to the ANA head.



Dear triplexotica,

dang man, sorry you got hit with a negative, the key with you, is your an honest coin dealer, where some of these guys just want to turn the coins as fast as they can and spoted coins are just wrong. all the coins i have recieved from you are as graded or better, and your packaging is first class , i work for UPS , mgillespie@ups.com and your packaging is by far the best I have seen from any of my ebay purchases , just the packaging alone and the time you put into scanning each coin proves you are dedicated to the PCGS concept of trading coins sight unseen , I know when I buy from you I never have a problem, I never am dissapointed . Your prices might be a tad higher that others , but in high quality collections improper storage will kill the price even if it was graded at a MS-70 , I am proud to say that I buy my coins from you , all any one has to do to see your dedication to building sets of the greatest coins is to check out the PCGS site . you squash this guy !! Mickey ;-)

MrPlatinum

Hey Russ,

I'd figure I just get along with everyone.

No sence in fighting when this type of crap happens, I figure if everyone can see what's going on, and have an honest opinion then it'll be better for all that collect.


Truce dood.

goose3

MrP

are you an ANA member?

do you have to be one to file a complaint with the ANA?

MrPlatinum

You do not have to be an ANA member to file one.

And yes.

egsantos

In the auction page, and others from this seller have a little (?) mistake in the text:

"Please review descriptions and pictures carefully there is on refunds or exchanges on PCGS graded coins".

The correct should be :

"Please review descriptions and pictures carefully there is NO refunds or exchanges on PCGS graded coins".

Lawyers loves this kind of discussion


Edson

bushmaster8

Ok. So now that rlawsha has graciously posted the original pix from the auction, we can see that Mr Platinum did, indeed, receive the coins that were pictured in the auction.
Which makes Mr Platinums statement, "The pictures of the coins I bought on Ebay are not the coins I recieved from this seller..." a false statement. Yet he asks us not to bash him in a thread where he misrepresents the facts!

I've said it before and now I'll say it again. In the fierce furnace of Mr.Platinums's mind, the gross carbon of wish and opinion are often blasted into the hard diamonds that he calls facts.

If you have indeed paid good money to a lawyer over this matter, Mr. Platinum, I am sure that lawyer is laughing all the way to the bank!

kieferscoins

<< <i>Not only I lost the sale, I lost the money on these coins, and took a slap in the face. >>



No one would have known if you didn't post this thread.

Good luck and I hope the ANA will resolve this problem between you guys.

Cameron Kiefer

cosmicdebris

Ok. So now that rlawsha has graciously posted the original pix from the auction, we can see that Mr Platinum did, indeed, receive the coins that were pictured in the auction.

I can't tell that from those pictures. How can you read the cert numbers?

Datentype

Here's a stupid question: What if the coins were cracked and "cleaned up" and sent back in? maybe you should not have to do this but it is one alternative that i don't believe has been considered.

bushmaster8

Yes, you are correct, the cert numbers are not legible. But, as rlawsha points out, the fifth coin pictured is easily identifiable as the 1990 with the obnoxious spot.

MrPlatinum

The time it would take to crack dip submit and get the coins back would take way too much time.

Also, I have never cracked a crap coin and dipped it out, it's not worth my time.


The point is they should have never shipped me those coins, and or cheerfully taken them back under ANA rules.


It's funny as soon as I filed a complaint, the other guys were asked to ship back the coins they just got as of this morning.


Maybe I'll get a phone call back. Also, you cant really tell by the auction pictures that these coins are problematic.

Do you honestly think if these coins would have had a clear picture, they would have got past melt?


Something to think about, I clearly asked if these coins were spotted, I was clearly told NO as the other people that bought the same coins on this last run.

They just got a refund, I'm waiting for mine.

7 days and counting...

MrPlatinum

Yes egsantos

My lawyer did point that out.


Notice how they corrected it on the other auction, then stated on the other auction the coins had NO spot, which they did.

That customer demaded a refund as far as I know as of this morning he's getting his money back.


Hopefully this does not go to court, I can assure you this is going to cost him a bundle in legal fees.


I honestly cant see why he just doesnt do the right thing...

MrPlatinum

Nothing yet.


He has not responded to the eBay fraud complaint, nor has he responded to squaretrade, being a squaretrade member he needs to respond within 3 business days, nothing has happened.

I also filed a formal complaint to both the ANA and PNG.

Also I plan on taking the time before I go to Athens next week to address this with a few other Numismatic heads.

He has violated the golden rule of the ANA, you must refund ALL monies in full if the client is not satisfied.

In this case I am the client, and I'm not satisfied with that junk. (not to mention my clients are not happy either)


I've also had my lawyer draft a letter demanding a refund within 7 days, or we'll just simply take him to court.


He can laugh all he wants if he wants, I'm 100% serious about this issue, others will also have their turn to voice their opinion if this goes to trial.


Basically I've hired a Lawyer in KC, and will do what ever it takes to get justice over this issue.

At this point,Win Lo0se or Draw, this will end up costing him one way or another.