how badly do carbon spots affect grading?

DesertRat

How would the small carbon spots just above the Liberty on the obverse affect grading on this?

Russ

One point.

Russ, NCNE

jom

The first thing I would consider is how it bothered ME when looking at it. What a TPG might think is secondary...to me anyway.

jom

tsacch

Do carbon spots multiply? is that a "wet spot" from a graders cough that showed up later????????????? What is a carbon spot.

wingedliberty

Its a subjective call based on the size and location. It is part of aesthetics rather than technical grading. Grading services vary in their assesment of carbon spots, but as a whole, I agree that it can be 1 pt. or sometimes even 2. I can tell you also that the major services are far more forgivining on carbot spots when it comes to Indians rather than Lincolns. Lincolns really get an unfair shake, especially the proofs, but it is as it should be, a more modern coin is expected to be in better quality, oh, nice 69S by the way. Looks like a CAMEO, hard to tell anything else, other than the contrast based on the small photo.

DesertRat

I'm going to submit it under one of my free submissions to see how it comes out. I know the photos aren't the best, but other than the small spots on the obverse it is a nice coin with some red toning on the obverse from just below the date around clockwise to the top of the head and a very nice purpil toning covering the "One Cent" on the reverse. I'm guessing maybe PR-67 CAM depending on the take away for the spots. Will let you all know when it gets back sometime next year

merz2

David Hall told me that those kind of spots,in that area reduce grade by (2) points.

grip

The carbon spots are in a focal area, the field,2 points would be my guess.
Al

majorbigtime

Carbon spots are evil--the coins s/b body bagged IMO!

islemangu

2 points my experience with a white DMPL morgan years ago when pcgs was using green labels and profile services in which they write a summary about the coin . Without the two small carbon spots on the obverse hair area she would have gone 67 as summarized back then but slabbed as 65. I still love the coin as technically superb in all other aspects. I asked the board members here about it a while back (too lazy to dig up) if dipping would remove the spots, but the opinion then was with silver coins the carbon spots are impurities in the metal itself and would keep coming back or still show.

ksteelheader

Seriously, I've got a couple of dozen of those laying around and wouldn't think of submitting then!! Sorry!

Ken

MadMarty

<< <i>Seriously, I've got a couple of dozen of those laying around and wouldn't think of submitting then!! Sorry! >>



Sounds like most of your coins Ken!!!

BAJJERFAN

In these somewhat modern times even in 1969 it makes you wonder why a mint worker would put chit like that into a proof set. I thought they were sposed to have some modicum of quality control.

BillJones

<< <i>Carbon spots are evil--the coins s/b body bagged IMO! >>



Well there goes virtually the WHOLE populartion of Proof buffalo nickels into body bags. TINY copper spots are usually the factor that determines the grades for high grade Proof buffalo nickels, NOT hairlines. I've handled a number of pieces in the grade range from PR-65 to 67, and ALL of them had copper spots, when you looked at them with a 10X glass. On the PR-67 coins that might be a couple about as large as a pinhead. On the PR-65 coins you could see them with MY near sighted naked eyes or with a 3x glass.

majorbigtime

<< <i>

<< <i>Carbon spots are evil--the coins s/b body bagged IMO! >>



Well there goes virtually the WHOLE populartion of Proof buffalo nickels into body bags.. >>



Not so--I have a few that are absolutely spotless under a scope! They are a rare breed, however.

Steve27

On a proof coin, spots will cause a severe grade reduction, I would guess PR64CAM for that coin.

seanq

<< <i>I'm going to submit it under one of my free submissions to see how it comes out. >>



If you want to do it so you will know how PCGS looks at that type of spotting go ahead, but don't submit if you think you will make a big profit on it. Earlier this year I made a '69-S Lincoln in PF67DCAM, listed it on eBay with a $9.95 start and no reserve, and didn't get a single bid.


Sean Reynolds

BillJones

Yes, unless you get these coins into something like a PR-69, cameo holder, they don't sell for much.

There are HUGE drops in price for one or two grading points.