How do you differentiate a 1967 "MS 67" Washington from an "SMS 67"?

dan1ecu

Heritage has this up for consignment:

1967 25C MS67

My question is how would you tell the difference between a coin minted for circulation and one minted for inclusion in a special mint set? Do SMS coins have similar characteristics as proof coins that allow for a positive identification?

Dan

100proof1957

Russ could tell ya
i thought they were all circ strikes

braddick

Flip it from a ten story building. If it lands "heads" it's a business strike. If it is "tails", it's an SMS.

lordmarcovan

That's a good question. I've wondered that myself, on how one can tell SMS strikes from circulation strikes in general. In some cases, the SMS coins would be obvious because of their prooflike characteristics, as you mentioned, but if you were to hypothetically have one that wasn't so prooflike, how do you tell?

XpipedreamR

If I were a smart ass, I would say that you can tell by the slab label whether it's SMS or not

dan1ecu

With the low population numbers, I would think that a business strike might be more valuable than an SMS.

Someone could get burned if it's mislabeled!

Russ

PCGS can't even tell half the time.

The problem with the SMS coins is that the same dies were used to produce them that were used to produce the business strikes, so very nice looking business strikes frequently get stuck in SMS holders. Getting a high grade one in the correct holder only happens when the moon is in the correct phase.



<< <i>I would think that a business strike might be more valuable than an SMS. >>



By a wide margin.

Russ, NCNE

Hoot

To make matters even worse, some SMS dies are reported to have been placed in production of business strikes after their initial use for SMS production. Some of those dies were recycled before being used again, so coins struck by them are fairly nice. And it does not end there... SMS and business strike master dies were made from the master hubs which were re-worked in 1966 to provide better definition for the coins ultimately struck. SMS and Business strike working hubs and subsequently, working dies, descended from the master dies, but some claim that those for business strikes were made with less attention to detail (particularly to pressing the hubs and dies) and with less fastidiousness for tight production standards. This was because business strikes were being made at an unprecidented rate in order to meet demands for circulation (due to the so-called "coin shortage"). Annealing the working dies was particularly poorly done, which is what many claim to be the reason for so many "soft" strikes for the time. SMS working dies were ultimately treated specially - like the proof dies of the 1960s, but the coins were struck only once, unlike proofs, which were struck twice. So, SMS coins are enigmatic and many business strike coins, especially those that are PL or EDS can easily be mistaken for SMS coins. I believe that the grading services suffer with their identification as well. I've submitted coins from original rolls of business strikes that PCGS staunchly claims are SMS. I know that, properly speaking, they are not.

Hoot