AT, NT, What's toning???

flyingcougar13

I was just sitting here thinking about the whole NT, AT thing and a couple of things bother me. What is AT? Is it only when a coin doctor places chemicals on it, heats it up, blows smoke on it, or whatever to alter a coins appearance? If you take a toned coin and dip in acid isn’t that an AT coin, albeit “Blast White” now?
What is NT? If a collector takes a freshly minted coin and puts it into an album made of cardboard and paper, which are all treated with chemicals, the coins tone after a number of years. Isn’t that really AT then? The coin would not have done that until they introduced it into the foreign environment of the album. Would the same then be true to any environment we might place a coin into that causes toning regardless of the time frame?
The only way we can keep a coin from toning is by artificial preservation of some means. Should this be an AP coin? Or maybe there should only be AT coins and AAT coins (accelerated artificial toning).
Just wanted to stimulate a little coin thinking.

Keith

08HALA20

I think you have tooooo much time on your hands.






But you got me thinking now!!!!


Come to think of it I have never seen a really toned coin in person.

Next time I go to a coin show I will have to make a point of looking for them.


Rookie Joe

bennybravo

My head hurts

ddink

You have an excellent point; in reality I think we can define NT as:

A coin that was placed in a certain environment for any reason OTHER THAN a desire to create toning. For example, Morgans placed in mint bags, where toning certainly was not intended, and probably not even known to happen.

AT would then be defined as one of the following:

A) Placing a coin in a certain environment with the express intention of creating a toned surface. This is a more philosophical definition, since we have no idea what a person 80 years ago intended; it can only be speculated upon.

Attempting to accelerate the process of toning, usually by artificial means, although sometimes not. This is easier to detect by looking at the coin itself, and includes all of the techniques used by coin doctors. However, it also means that SAE you put in an envelope on the windowsill of your garage is AT. Whether baked or placed in an envelope in the sun, the coin is AT under this definition.

However we define NT and AT, I think we can all agree that the coin that's baked or treated with chemicals to create color is AT. The coin that was put in a mint bag 100 years ago is NT. But we cannot agree on whether that SAE on the windowsill is NT or AT; no unnatural process was used to create the toning, but the coin was placed in an artificial (i.e., manipulated) environment to accelerate the otherwise natural process.

Baley

imo, the NT/AT question isn't an either/or thing, rather it's a spectrum, no pun intended, primarily measuring, for a given coin,

A. How Long the toning took to form (decades in the case of nice Bag and Album NT, to to just minutes for chemical or heat color painted or baked on this morning), and

B. the Intent of the storer (ranging from accidently like stored bags and rolls, through albums and little envelopes, to intentional storage in folks bathrooms and on top of water heaters, to, again, chemical and heat and smoke, etc., and

C. the Appearance of the result, which "appears natural" or not, or questionable, to the trained eye.

flyingcougar13

Thanks ddink and Baley for your comments. What really got me thinking about this was a couple of coins I sent in for grading. I was digging through some stuff and found two proof Kennedy's that I had put into blue paper flips 20 years ago. When I pulled them out they were these great looking almost gold coins. They came back PF69DCAM. A month before that I had sent in some raw Morgans, one had been in an album for 45+ years. It came back body bagged, AT. Go figure!!!
I understand the "floating" coloring versus the true "part of the metal" concept, but do the graders all the time?

Keith