Are cleaned coins really worth anything?

coinguy89

Why does anyone buy them? Alot of you guys, and I complain about cleaned coins. How much does value and appeal decrease?

Cladiator

The only time's I bought cleaned coins I was "new" and did not know they were cleaned. I think the only coin I would buy now knowing it was cleaned would be a 1792 Half Disme...I'd buy that coin no matter what had happened to it, if it was in my price range.

granddad

Both value and appeal could actually increase, depends on the targeted market.

Louis

rich

To a serious collector,A cleaned coin is worthless.Unless of course it is a really rare coin with a pedigree like King Farouk.He used to clean his coins regularly.In those days it was acceptable.Now, we know better.It is like an antique furniture piece that has been refinished improperly.
The value can drop up to 90%.It depends on how & how badly it was cleaned.Notice I didn't say Restored.Thats something left to professionals.If is an every day common type coin and you just want it to yourself with no intention of selling it.That is up to you .But if it has any value please leave it alone.

mirabela

I got stuck with my share when I was new. I unloaded a lot on ebay last winter (stating very clearly the problems) and seemed to realize 50-75% of sheet on otherwise equivalent coins for most of them, better on a few. A moderately harshly cleaned AU Vermont commemorative half brought what I'd expect an original one to sell for.

I've had a few that didn't bother me too much. One high-AU 1860 quarter I sent to PCGS after having it for 20+ years came back bodybagged for cleaning, but I couldn't for the life of me see the evidence. It still looked good. The dealer I wound up trading it to wanted it pretty badly despite knowing the graders' verdict. I think it wound up in his own type set...
I have right now a Stone Mountain half that was lightly cleaned a long time ago and has pretty thoroughly retoned since. It's basically an AU58 coin but for the hairlines, which blend in with heavy die polish lines. It's nice looking. I got it for a bit under EF money. I like it. I'll probably keep it a long time.

Mostly, to me, it's a matter of eye appeal. Most cleaned coins, that's the first thing you notice -- they're cleaned -- and they suck. Here and there, there are some that sort of pass on their remaining merits. I'd never knowingly put real money on anything cleaned, though, which is part of why I pretty much don't spend real money on anything not in a slab. Just my .02.

DorkGirl

A key date in any series is still a key date. Sometimes the cleaning isn't harsh enough to distract from it's beauty. You can fill a hole in a album for less money with a coin that is a higher grade with very little downside that I can see. When the time comes that you can afford a nicer example, then someone else can fill the hole in their album with a cleaned coin. It can be very hard to find nice coins that weren't cleaned 50 or more years ago. I think they cleaned their coins along with the silverware sometimes.

dorkkarl

all cleaned coins are worthless. don't waste your time. that's why they get bodybags! like, a cleaned 1794 dollar? worthless. a cleaned chain cent? worthless. a cleaned 1955 double die? worthless. why even ask such a silly question?

K S

Manorcourtman

It is far from a silly question. Although cleaned coins will never bring uncleaned prices a segment of the coin market will always be buyers for many different reasons. Some peoples budgets don't allow for top of the scale material. As mentioned some cleaned coins are very eye appealing. To each his own. I sold a 1857 FEC that was ANACS slabbed UNC details, cleaned, net AU50 for $300+ a few weeks back. It was a spectacular coin that looked at least MS63 but was lightly cleaned and retoned. If PCGS ever decides to net grade problem coins you will see a huge new market created for cleaned coins. Just my opinion of course.

earlwbollinger

Technically, cleaned coins aren't worth much in the current market. The collectors frown upon it most seriously.
But many many years ago it was a accepted practice.
Best value is obtained froma coin by not cleaning it and leaving it as is.
But what if the coin has some corrosion, or PVC damage already on it? In this case cleaning the coin to help preserve it doesn't hurt the value
as that coin already has lost much of it's value already.
Previously cleaned coins make great hole fillers in Whittman albums, et cetera.
Who knows, maybe in a 100 years we'll be back to cleaning coins is OK because. . . (add your reason here).

GoYankees

There are no such thing as "silly questions" from newbies, like myself.

That's not to say don't hate cleaned/problem coins. I do and avoid them like the plague.

partagas

I have had luck with buying cleaned key date coins. Mind you they had light cleanings, not harsh. They still had excellent details. As long as they fill the collectors needs, they can still be enjoyed.

When I was younger (1985) and couldn't afford a better one, I bought a cleaned 1909 S Indian Cent . One of the guys in the store said it was junk and why would I buy it? I paid like $30 for it. I told him, i was twelve I can't afford a better one, and it filled the hole in my album.

I sent it to ANACS and sold it on ebay for over $300 this year. Another coin I bought was a 1866 Seated Quarter with a light cleaning. It retoned nicely since I owned it. I sold it and I doubled my money since 1988.

So I see nothing wrong with collecting lightly cleaned coins. I would just stick with keys though. Common cleaned coins should be avoided in my opinioin.

I did buy one cleaned common date, and I wound up selling it for $10 more then I paid for it. So with time value of money I lost on that one.

SDCollector

I think we would all be surprised at how many cleaned coins are actually in our collections, that we think are original.

Since cleaning coins was so wide spread, it's hard for me to believe that the majority of the coins in my collection were not cleaned at least once in their 100+ year history. I used to be paranoid about cleaned coins. Now I accept cleaned coins as part of the hobby and try and find coins with nice, original-looking eye appeal. I am no longer obsessed with whether or not the coin was cleaned long ago.

And I think the market is too hard on cleaned coins, especially key dates.

GOLDSAINT

CG89,

You would think that saying, and selling, “ cleaned” coins would be a kiss of death, but amazingly over the last year this market has change drastically. Several months ago when I had dozens of coins body bagged by NGC for cleaning my attitude toward these coins changed to one of disgust. My mood on these coins has more than picked up over the last few months as the price of many of these rarer coins in cleaned condition are now moving up substantially in the market. The one thing that I did not count on was that a really hot market raises all boats. As an example of this in the hot Scotsman auction that just took place with many very RAW coins brought strong prices. An additional example is the good prices that Anacs coins bring, net graded, at most auctions. Many of my “cleaned” Bust dollars and half dollars have gone up over 20% just this year. This is a point that I made several months ago when I said that PCGS should change its policy toward grading rare cleaned coins. A rare cleaned coin is still a rare coin, and many type and set collectors are being priced out of the market, so what choices do they really have.

MacCoin

I cleaned coins and I will buy a cleaned coin for my albums but if I using them for a registry set well thats differant

RYK

all cleaned coins are worthless.

Sometimes I have trouble telling when dorkkarl is being sarcastic, facetious, or just plain honest.

oldcameoproofsguy

<< <i>Are cleaned coins really worth anything? >>


This one was worth $3500. There is a huge market for headlight proof type.

In the case of this coin it probably fared better being cleaned.

Sorry about the bad photography; this one was pulled out of my oooooold files.

coinguy89

Well I haven't bought anything cleaned, but in my early day of collecting I got quite a few rolls of wheaties from my dad sadly we decided to clean them all. When we were doing the cleaning they looked great, but a few hours later, yikes, they looked like crap. I don't think I will ever buy anything cleaned unless, I really wanted it, it was a key date and good price, or something I just absolulty wanted. Other wise I probably will avoid them. Im collecting capped bust half dimes and have decided raw roosies in MS-66 or higher coins to put in albums are best for me, are these coins popular to cleaning? If so, i'll probably have to purchase a book on telling what is and what isn't cleaned.

Placid

Value compared to a uncleaned coin depends on the coin and grade.

Dirty coins have better eye appeal.

KlectorKid

You probably wont have much of a problem with roosies but capped bust coins seem to get cleaned alot. Its pretty obvious to tell whick ones are cleaned in most cases though. If its white, golden, or very colorful I usually stay away from them.

tincup

hmmmm..... does cleaned coins include 'dipped' coins??!

If so... give me one of those ugly dirty coins with those colors!

dorkkarl

<< <i>collecting capped bust half dimes >>

you can forget it then. 90%, i am not exaggerating, NINETY PERCENT of capped bust coins in xf or better have been cleaned. actually half dimes are easier to find then say, bust halves, but the point is, you WILL end up buying cleaned coins is you like capped bust.

you can get paralyzed in this hobby if you let paranoia about cleaned coins dominate you. just worry about what look you like, & buy accordingly.

K S

cladking

The paranoia about cleaned coins may have already peaked. One can buy a nice attractive
cleaned coin in XF for 10% of the uncleaned counterpart. Even the most harshly cleaned coin
will no longer look cleaned by the time it's carried as a pocket piece and worn down to VF. At
this point it's usually worth about 75% of what the uncleaned version would have gone for.
Indeed, in many cases with copper all that is really required is to let them sit exposed to air
for a few months and they won't appear to have been cleaned.

Perhaps it's merely the swing of the pendulum raising prices on these, rather than the rising
tide.

islemangu

But what if the coin has some corrosion, or PVC damage already on it? In this case cleaning the coin to help preserve it doesn't hurt the value

This type of cleaning would fit the definition of "conservation" but when they start putting ad stickers suggesting cleaning on original undamaged coins then they have gone too far

GOLDSAINT

The paranoia about cleaned coins may have already peaked. One can buy a nice attractive
cleaned coin in XF for 10% of the uncleaned counterpart.

Cladking,

Not to start an agument here, but I think your number above is way off. From what I have seen in the last
few months. I think the gap has narrowed to a point where you can buy a nice XF coin for 60 to 70% of an uncleaned coin. Look at the Scotsman auction that just went off. Even coins that they said were cleaned went
for no less than 50% of uncleaned.

coinguy89

Well out of the only 7 capped bust half dimes i've seen, one appeared to be cleaned, the rest looked great. I don't think I would have to worry about cleaning on them anyway. I collect in VF-20 or around there, nothing above XF-40.

aem4162

they have value to SOMEONE. experienced collectors may think that they are lower than slug slime on the scale of desired things, but a cleaned coin makes great filler and if ya give one to a kid you might start them on a fun hobby. other than that, don't buy them if ya don't like them.

GOLDSAINT

Just in from Heritage

New York Signature & Bullet Auctions Top $8.1 Million

" Another appealing rarity was an early Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar of 1797, O-102; even with environmental damage, the AU-detailed coin from The Willamette Collection realized $71,300 as lot 7851."

It's a very crazy market!

dorkkarl

crazy all right, like i said cleaned coins are WORTHLESS!!! why even bother? a cleaned 1801 half? worthless. a cleaned 1909-svdb? worthless. a cleaned 1916-d dime? worthless. a cleaned 1916 slq? definitely worthless!

worthless worthless WORTHLESS!!! all cleaned coins ain't worth a cent. thye're junk, nobody NOBODY collects such garbage. the paranoia about cleaned coins is appropriate.

you are only allowed to buy pcgs or ngc coins that aren't cleaned because only coins that have never been cleaned have value. all cleaned coins deserve body bags because they are so worthless.

K S

MacCoin

I don't think people know how many cleaned coins get by the grader and are in plasic. I read in an old coin rag that over 50% of the old pcgs coins were cleaned or doctored so how.

Conder101

<< <i> experienced collectors may think that they are lower than slug slime on the scale of desired things >>


I tend to think of myself as an experienced collector. The problem is although experienced, I am also POOR. If I insisted on only better grade uncleaned original coins on the stuff I collect, I would be a collector with no collection. So yes they DO have value to those of us at the low end of the income scale.

Myqqy

you are only allowed to buy pcgs or ngc coins that aren't cleaned because only coins that have never been cleaned have value. all cleaned coins deserve body bags because they are so worthless.

Sometimes Dorkkarl cracks me up.... Ealier posters were correct about having to live with cleaned coins if you collect capped bust or earlier coins. I don't worry about whether my bust halves have been cleaned- I just look for dark, original looking toning because that's what looks right to me from an eye appeal standpoint. I avoid dipped white bust halves, but they seem to sell pretty easily.....

aem4162

i'm poor, too.

i SHOULD have said "SOME experienced collectors may think that they are lower..."

dorkkarl

just don't understand why some of you are trying to come up w/ all these bogus reasons to buy cleaned coins. don't do it! i'm tellin ya, a cleaned coin is a junk coin, i don't care WHAT it is! you might as well spend it!!!

K S

RotatedRainbows

<< <i>crazy all right, like i said cleaned coins are WORTHLESS!!! why even bother? a cleaned 1801 half? worthless. a cleaned 1909-svdb? worthless. a cleaned 1916-d dime? worthless. a cleaned 1916 slq? definitely worthless!

worthless worthless WORTHLESS!!! all cleaned coins ain't worth a cent. thye're junk, nobody NOBODY collects such garbage. the paranoia about cleaned coins is appropriate.

you are only allowed to buy pcgs or ngc coins that aren't cleaned because only coins that have never been cleaned have value. all cleaned coins deserve body bags because they are so worthless.

K S >>




Wrong Wrong WRONG!!! You can take that 1916 dime to any 7-11 and buy 10¢ worth of candy so it is about as far from worthless as you can get which means it is worth way more then a CENT!!! Now if you are talking about Bust coinage they probably are worthless since the cashier at 7-11 would not accept it thinking it is some type of foreign coin.

alergar

"Are cleaned coins really worth anything?"


Yes, they are worth face value !!!

ccrdragon

Karl,

Are you just trying to scare people off of these coins so that you can add them to your collection w/o a lot of competition?!?!?!?!

dorkkarl

DOH!!!

K S

Nysoto

Avoid harshly cleaned sackajawea's and keelboat nickels.

RARE cleaned coins are OK, if you like them, as long as you know the pricing of the different levels of cleaning and can identify rare coins that have been wiped, soap & watered, acid bath, baking soda, ajaxed, or wire brushed. I prefer original coins, but for a truly rare coin (R.5 and up), I will buy anything.

Elcontador

If you don't like cleaned coins, I suggest not buying Bust $s. I've yet to see one in AU that hasn't been cleaned. The TPGs tacitly look the other way re cleaned coin of this series, if the cleaning has not in their opinion been overly abrasive. Revier, in his book on Bust $s, backs me up on this.

Modwriter

Great discussion on cleaned coins. Another oldie but goodie thread.> @GOLDSAINT said:

Just in from Heritage

New York Signature & Bullet Auctions Top $8.1 Million

" Another appealing rarity was an early Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar of 1797, O-102; even with environmental damage, the AU-detailed coin from The Willamette Collection realized $71,300 as lot 7851."

It's a very crazy market!

skier07

Most 18th century and early 19th century coins are “cleaned”.

Zoins

@coinguy89 said:
Are cleaned coins really worth anything?

Why does anyone buy them? Alot of you guys, and I complain about cleaned coins. How much does value and appeal decrease?

For some items, the non-cleaned ones are out of one's budget.

I picked up this one a while back which was less than non-impaired ones, but still fairly pricey:

1920 Wilson Dollar - Opening of the Manila Mint - HK-449 - Ex-Dr. Eugene Bruder

Liquidated

Deleted

ricko

The term 'cleaned' covers a broad spectrum. It can be harshly cleaned, mildly cleaned, suspected cleaned....This is important to people who put monetary value on the coins for purposes of selling or investment. It is criteria that has become a standard for value purposes. As stated often above, cost of procurement limits collectors to such coins.... And they derive great pleasure from owning one, although 'cleaned'. To each his own... enjoy the hobby... I wish you success if it is your business. Cheers, RickO

WAYNEAS

I like this post and the opinions expressed. I have been looking at SLQs that have been cleaned. Not AT ones.
I do not have a single one in my collection and thought that since I am passing my coins down, It would be nice to have a few of these for their design and not monetary value. A SLQ in an AU or a low MS grade would cost me more than I would like to spend.
Wayne

FrankH

Boy, this thread sure does enforce the degree to which economics has pervaded numismatics.

WUZZIT WORTH? WUZZIT WORTH ??

micotu

So what does cleaning actually do to a coin? If all it does is remove tarnish, wouldn't a cleaned coin be indiscernable from a non cleaned if you were to wait another 100 years or so? Does it remove mint lustre, or just leave a bunch of scratch marks from whatever they used to remove the tarnish?

lkenefic

Cleaned coins aren't completely worthless, but it should be noted... lightly cleaned vs. harshly cleaned. I'd have a difficult time passing on certain lightly cleaned 18th C type coins if they still looked nice and were priced accordingly, even though they've been cleaned. Even harshly cleaned coins still have intrinsic value for the silver or gold content.

Aotearoa

There are heaps of old copper coins out there that have been cleaned and retoned and now reside in straight-graded holders. There is definitely such a thing as "market acceptable" cleaning.

MrEureka

All coins have some value to someone, for all kinds of reasons.

A more interesting question:

How badly does a coin have to be cleaned (or polished or whizzed) before it becomes impossible to verify authenticity?

Russell12

I did an experiment to see if cleaned coins are worth anything. I got a roll of quarters from my bank, cleaned them in the dishwasher and was still able to spend them. Cleaned coins are NOT worthless!