WARNING - Certified coin thread

ajaan · July 30, 2004 9:12AM

I just returned from a week in Canada* and while I was gone a package arrived from NGC. Turnaround times seem to be growing at NGC, they received my coins on July 1 and mailed them out July 23.

I have noticed a few treads at NGC lately, at least with coins I've sent them:

#1 AU58 grades. I have never received as many AU58 grades as I have before. In my last two submissions I received 6 out of the 20 coins have been graded AU58. Now I'm not an expert grader, but I do know something about grading, and these AU58 coins are killers. One was even taken from an ICCS MS60 'slab'.

#2 What the heck is with NGC and BN designations for copper? Two coins I got back today are no question RB and NGC gives them BN. Has anyone else noticed this? Has NGC tightened up their criteria for RB coins? Must a coin now be 40% red to get a RB?

* I have a couple off topic questions for people who live around Toronto:

#1 Does anyone stay at home on the weekend? It seems like every single car in the metro Toronto area was on the road last weekend and today.

#2 How does the road authority collect the tolls on the 407 ETR? If they take a photo of my back plate how do they collect the toll money?

Aethelred · July 30, 2004 9:19AM

<< #2 What the heck is with NGC and BN designations for copper? Two coins I got back today are no question RB and NGC gives them BN. Has anyone else noticed this? Has NGC tightened up their criteria for RB coins? Must a coin now be 40% red to get a RB? >>

Yes, they are brutal on giving RED and RB to copper, always have been!

Clankeye · July 30, 2004 9:24AM

Don, just out of curiosity, why are you using NGC for what I presume is Canadian material?

Is it the couple of bucks you save or the turnaround time? Or, do you just like them better as a service? Sincere questions.

ajaan · July 30, 2004 9:30AM

Three answers Carl:

1. Cheaper
2. Turnaround times are 80+ days quicker.
3. Current grading as tight, if not tighter than PCGS IMO. Most people won't believe this but it is my experience to be true.

ICCS is not an option because of Canadian customs.

Clankeye · July 30, 2004 9:41AM

<< 2. Turnaround times are 80+ days quicker. >>

That is a biggy. I would say if PCGS really wants to seriously attract the Canadian interest they need to change that. But... the turnaround is the same on liteside material, so I doubt it's really going to change anytime soon.

NGC does a real good job on turnaround.

It would seem to me that NGC is fighting the same thing that they do in the realm of American coins--the perception that they are an enth behind PCGS in tightness of grading. It may be a perception that is just not reality, but many collectors still think it. And I believe we've talked about before that you see it in auction prices for Canadian material.

Aethelred · July 30, 2004 11:27AM

NGC is more slack than PCGS in some areas like high grade modern stuff. They hand out 70s to Coinvault like candy. A PCGS graded 70 is indeed a rare coin, but this is no longer so with NGC.

ajaan · July 30, 2004 12:04PM

<< NGC is more slack than PCGS in some areas like high grade modern stuff >>

Modern stuff?

spinaker2000 · July 30, 2004 12:11PM

What are the coins Don?? I might be interested in some UNCs for AU $$$

1960NYGiants · July 30, 2004 12:13PM

Hi Don,

You are correct about the traffic. During the week of the CNA, Toronto was also prepping for the Toronto Indy race. There were alot of blocked streets. Combined with road repair, traffic was a nightmare. Better off just parking the car and taking the bus or train.

Any coin stories while there?

Gene

ajaan · July 30, 2004 12:17PM

Gene, no coin stories. We went up to a Resort in Orillia, about 80 miles north of Toronto. What surprised me was the traffic between T.O. and Barrie. It seems everyone heads out of Toronto on the weekend. It took us 30 minutes to get over the Lewiston (Queenston) bridge this afternoon. Part of that may be it being a holiday weekend in Canada.

ajaan · July 30, 2004 12:20PM

The coins are:

Canada 1899 1c BBed 'artificial color' bullfeathers! bought the coin from Berk
Canada 1888 1c NGC MS63 BN
Canada 1911 1c NCG MS64 RB
Canada 1858 20c NGC F15
Canada 1949 25c NGC MS62
Canada 1950 25c NGC AU58 ex ICCS MS60
Canada 1949 $1 NGC MS66 ex PCI green label MS64
Australia 1911 1/2d NGC MS63 BN a RB coin
GB 1944 2 shilling NGC AU58
GB 1887 shilling NGC AU58 ex- aethelred I believe.
GB 1887 Crown PF62 ex- ANACS PF61

1960NYGiants · July 30, 2004 12:30PM

<< Canada 1899 1c BBed 'artificial color' bullfeathers! bought the coin from Berk

Canada 1949 $1 NGC MS66 ex PCI green label MS64

GB 1887 Crown PF62 ex- ANACS PF61

>>

But, You did get 2 nice scores!

Gene

Aethelred · July 30, 2004 12:51PM

<< GB 1887 shilling NGC AU58 ex- aethelred I believe. >>

ex Aethelred, ex Spinaker and NOT an AU! NGC is off their rocker!

JamminJ · July 30, 2004 3:23PM

<< #1 AU58 grades. I have never received as many AU58 grades as I have before. In my last two submissions I received 6 out of the 20 coins have been graded AU58. >>

If you're really that sure, why not pick out the two or three best send them back for another try?

<< #2 What the heck is with NGC and BN designations for copper? Two coins I got back today are no question RB and NGC gives them BN. Has anyone else noticed this? Has NGC tightened up their criteria for RB coins? Must a coin now be 40% red to get a RB? >>

How about a couple of pictures so we can better judge? I've found them to be fairly consistent.

-JamminJ

akdrv · July 30, 2004 9:36PM

<< 
#2 How does the road authority collect the tolls on the 407 ETR? If they take a photo of my back plate how do they collect the toll money? >>

They send you a bill to the address where the plate owner is registered.

ajaan · July 30, 2004 10:54PM

Q]#1 AU58 grades. I have never received as many AU58 grades as I have before. In my last two submissions I received 6 out of the 20 coins have been graded AU58. >>

<< If you're really that sure, why not pick out the two or three best send them back for another try >>

I'm not sure it is worth $15/coin to send them in for another try.

wybrit · July 30, 2004 11:02PM

GB 1944 2 shilling NGC AU58

Has a TPG ever slabbed a Geroge VI florin before?

I'd like to see that coin. Do you have a picture?

ajaan · July 30, 2004 11:09PM

I'm sure it is a pop 1 coin Tom. I'll try to get an image of it today. I'll do a quick scan now.

wybrit · July 30, 2004 11:23PM

I check the thistle flower on the reverse for wear first, followed by the eyebrow and cheek on the obverse.

I don't see any obvious sign of wear, but it's always tough to see from a scan.

I'll bet that it is MS. The head sure looks like it.

ajaan · July 30, 2004 11:30PM

The coin is MS. I have no doubt about it. NGC just blew the call on this one but it isn't worth getting it regraded. Really it wasn't worth getting it graded to begin with, but I wanted it slabbed to fit in with all my other coins in the Monarch collection.

rhound1977 · July 30, 2004 11:43PM

I too am not an expert grader, but my gothic florin (1872) came back as MS62 from NGC, I think that it is a point or two under...

Here is the coin----->>>>Obv Rev

docday2003 · July 31, 2004 12:26AM

that is one nasty coin. I think MS62 is way too generous for it. I think that you would be lucky to sell it to anyone just to get the stench off your hands...and lucky for you I am willing to be the martyr who helps you out with it.

JamminJ · July 31, 2004 1:39AM

<< I'm not sure it is worth $15/coin to send them in for another try. >>

I usually think of it as an educational expense when I try to avenge and unjust grade.

-JamminJ

JamminJ · July 31, 2004 1:41AM

<< I'm sure it is a pop 1 coin Tom. I'll try to get an image of it today. I'll do a quick scan now. >>

Hard to tell from the scans but looks like some rub in the fields to me. I've found the fields is the place to look when determining and AU/MS liner - in my vast experiance, of coarse.

-JamminJ

rhound1977 · July 31, 2004 6:58PM

<< that is one nasty coin. I think MS62 is way too generous for it. I think that you would be lucky to sell it to anyone just to get the stench off your hands...and lucky for you I am willing to be the martyr who helps you out with it.

>>

1jester · July 31, 2004 7:06PM

"that is one nasty coin. I think MS62 is way too generous for it. I think that you would be lucky to sell it to anyone just to get the stench off your hands...and lucky for you I am willing to be the martyr who helps you out with it." --Docday

I could learn to be a martyr too!!!

eric1509 · July 31, 2004 8:17PM

Hello Ajaan!

To your question about the toll road 407!
I can tell you, you will get a bill send home!
I was on that road with a "Avis" car and they sending the bill also to Germany!!!!
Think it was including fees about 18 $.

Eric

MacCrimmon · August 1, 2004 3:32AM

Next time you take the 407, remember you still have to endure the 400....

I once sped into Toronto on the 401 cackling about how smooth it was going; I made the turn onto the 400 thinking I'd be just north of Barrie at our B&B in 30-40 minutes.....

The joke was on me. Within 2 miles I was in gridlock all the way to Barrie for the next 3 hours. Something they call Canada Day was upon me!

How was I to know that 2/3s of Toronto heads for 'Cottage Country' in the Summer.......

I stick to the farm roads now.....no blood pressure problems that way, eh?

ajaan · September 23, 2004 10:01AM

Holy ripoff Batman!!!! I got the bill for my time on the 407ETR outside of Toronto - $26.44!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For that amount I can drive to Albany and back. In total I probably only went 30 miles or so on the 407.

MacCrimmon · September 23, 2004 10:15AM

Next time, go over to that pipin' joint I told you about and use your digicam to shoot a photo of some ONT plates. Photoshop 'em on some nice glossy stock, tape 'em to your plates before heading onto the 407, and laugh all the way!!!!

PS. If those ONT plates are on a 1971 Cadillac, it's that former OPP Narc I told you about.....he'd really think that's funny!!!

CHILDREN, PLEASE!!! THE ABOVE COMMENTS WERE FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!! GOOD DAY.

ajaan · September 23, 2004 10:20AM

OK Mac, and I'll tell him it was your advice.

Sylvestius · September 24, 2004 5:40AM

This is my first Certified coin (it arrived today), i generally don't approve of slabbing but i like the coin. For £155 can't complain for an MS62 Vicky sov. Excuse the pasty looking scans, i've not had much experience scanning gold and none in scanning slabbed coins.

I like it. I love these coins! (Even if it is the most common year!) Die number 28.

syraq · September 24, 2004 6:54AM

Well it's a start! You might be able to locate some very nice certified shield sovs on ebay, at fair prices, especially when compared to GB pounds. They are also easy to resell. I did that with an 1869 ANACS MS63, terrific coin, die number 56 if I recall correctly, and more recently an 1878 NGC MS61 half sov.

Sylvestius · September 24, 2004 7:18AM

<< Well it's a start! You might be able to locate some very nice certified shield sovs on ebay, at fair prices, especially when compared to GB pounds. They are also easy to resell. I did that with an 1869 ANACS MS63, terrific coin, die number 56 if I recall correctly, and more recently an 1878 NGC MS61 half sov. >>

As much as i love my shield reverse sovereigns i only wanted one as a very nice example. This one will do. I was going to collect them but i've decided to shift to hammered gold instead as i find it even more appealing!

WARNING - Certified coin thread

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