Ethics Scenerio. UPDATED With a TWIST!

braddick

You walk into a coin shop you're somewhat familar with and begin looking through a book of uncirculated Mercuries. You stumble upon a 1945, and although you've never found a FSB, you flip the coin over anyway, just out of habit. Sure enough, even under 10X power, you spot the bands are not only split but fully rounded. You note the pricetag on the flip is $40., priced at full retail for an MS65+ example (without bands!).

You inquire of the Dealer where he had located the set and he tells you it just "walked in off the street early today", and he purchased it within a large lot of other misc. coins. He then volunteers, without prompting, "I think I'm something like $20. into it if you want it at $30.".

Now, knowing the Dealer had a chance to check it out for himself because it's in the Dealer's flip and priced by the Dealer but knowing also it's a $5,000.00 coin if even holdered at MS65 FB (you strongly believe it is, if not slightly better), do you school the Dealer or simply outright take him up on his $30. sell offer?
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______________________________EDITED To Add the Following:_______________________________________________________

Now... add this tidbit of information: Say the same Dealer is out of town at a coin show and his wife is running the shop. She is not nearly as gifted as her husband and usually handles the clerical around the shop and not the inventory. She buys the coin for $20. off the street and when she looked it up in the Red Book, priced it accordingly without giving it a second thought. You are offered the coin, by her, at $30. (although her handwritten price sticker states $40.). Do you still proceed with the purchase?

tradedollarnut

Done deal.

Purple73

If that coin was at the local shop here in my hometown. I would try to get it @ 25.00 if not ,I would pay the 30.00 and go with it.


PURPLE

airplanenut

Buy it at the quote price--he was too lazy to check his own inventory...

DennisH

Buy it. The dealer had two chances to think about it. No ethics problem here at all.

bearcave

Done deal. He's making money according to him, so buy it and move on.

Colorfulcoins

Not an ethical dilema for me........

fountainheadgold

$30.00 it is.

ziggy29

A dealer -- who should be knowledgeable and educated enough to look for this -- missed it. I don't think it's an ethical quandary at all, except that I'd feel horrid for the person who sold it to the dealer, and I'd probably have no way to track them down and give them a little bit more than $20.

100proof1957

Done deal

XpipedreamR

SOLD, baby!

FatMan

I would buy it at the price the dealer asked. Then I would ask him if he knew the person who sold it to him and let him know I wanted to sell it back to them and why. If he doesn't know or refuses to help I simply walk out the door with my new rip.

coinguy1

Please don't flame me or ridicule me for this but......buy it. Then tell him about the bands and offer to pay him AND the original seller something extra if it turns out that you are correct.

Yes, I understand that my approach would cause some "unneccesary" complications.

coinlieutenant

Buy it....

elwood

Buy the coin at his price. If 5 or 6's FB and you make 5k, then you start feeling guilty, throw him a small bone.
I wouldn't tell him what you got for it.

keets

simple dilemma, i own it!!

al h.

braddick

Added New Twist! (See my first post...)

ddbird

I would still pay 30...thats a 50% increase in price. Her husband would be happy with her for selling a coin and making a quick profit...just make sure they never find out its a FSB..

XpipedreamR

Buy the coin and after you two have sex, offer to do the dishes out of guilt.

ddbird

no no..after the sex..make her do the dishes...and say "Next time...Dont charge me a 50% mark up on a crappy coin!!!"

mgoodm3

if the dealer's a friend, i would tell him. otherwise take it home.

braddick

<< <i>no no..after the sex..make her do the dishes...and say "Next time...Dont charge me a 50% mark up on a crappy coin!!!" >>

Note to self: At 3:30 PM this Thread was offically hijacked!

Smitty79

No doubt in either scenerio, take the coin home.

fcloud

The problem I have is why the dealer didn't take the time to look at the coin and pay the seller a fair amount of money. Many people have coins, but don't collect them. If the dealer wants to make $10 to $20 bucks, it is his/her fault. They could have taken the time to look at the coins, paid the seller three grand and made a grand. Shame on the dealer for not treating the seller fairly.

FatMan

<< <i>I would buy it at the price the dealer asked. Then I would ask him if he knew the person who sold it to him and let him know I wanted to sell it back to them and why. If he doesn't know or refuses to help I simply walk out the door with my new rip. >>

My answer remains the same.

Newmismatist

Hmmm - How about this - you buy it, submit it to your favorite grading service & they bag it for being "tooled" - having "enhanced" bands.

Now what - do you return your "rip" and ask for your money back as its only a $5 coin?

Topdollarpaid

Buy the coin No prob. and The wife should not be pricing coins if she is not schooled

relayer

The nice people on eBay rip me for my coins all the time, so I think a dealer is fair game.

When I buy coins at this one shop, the owner always looks at both sides. I keep thinking he'll change his mind and not sell it to me.

nwcs

Done deal. And if it was a sub? Done deal. Now, in the local coin shop I sometimes go to, when the main dealer isn't there the other guys won't deal with recent stuff or they will call the main dealer. I suspect that would be the case in most cases. Either way, they had a chance and it's a done deal for me. Now, if it was a clear mislabel situation such as a 1916-D merc that was labeled 14.95 instead of 1495 and it was obvious what the intention is, I would bring that to their attention.

Coinerww

done deal

keets

here's a story from the other side of the counter that puts things in perspective. it happened:

the local guy has a coin shop with his girlfriends Jewelry/Pawn Shop next door. one of the regular pawn customers had some stuff and he wasn't in so she bought, paying about 50 cents each for the Indian Cents and giving them to my pal when he returned. low and behold, one is an 1872 that he quickly flipped for about $250. i wonder if he ever thought of having her call the "regular customer" to give him a better cut??

don't hold your breath, i know the thought never entered his mind!!

as i said before, i own it!!!!!!

al h.

DennisH

No difference. Buy the coin.

100proof1957

Did she make dinner ?

Numismanic

I'd pay the $30.00 and see what else I could cherrypick.

Monstavet

I think anytime I am in a coin shop I m looking for something the dealer missed...that doesn't make me a scammer, it just makes me a smart shopper.

Wasn't it MadMarty that found that 93-S Morgan at the pawn shop? Maybe I didn't hear the whole story, but I thought he paid like $20 for it or something? Score for him!

If you look for VAMs or double-dies, or RPMs...it doesn't mean you have questionable ethics. You are expoliting a niche. Few dealers can know everything about every coin in their inventory. Most of them aren't that smart (heh-heh-heh).

REverse scenario: How many dealers would pay the proper price to the seller of said coin if the seller was unknowledgeable of what they had? Plenty would pay the $20 and profit the rest.

Shamika

I'd give the guy (or his wife) a $50 and tell him/her to keep the change.

Just imagine what they'd think about that!

sinin1

would you feel bad about buying a coin off of eBay for $20, and a couple weeks later being offered $2500 for it (in a NGC MS67 that you made)?

just don't tell them about it, then you will make them feel bad



practically the same thing IMHO

RGL

You own it .. a few seconds with a loupe was all that was asked of the dealer. He either didn't know or didn't look. Your gain. I sure have not dropped hints when cherrying dealers out of some nice coins for bottom dollar ... They are professionals, I am not. If I pick up SMS DCAMs for $10 each or a F 14-D Buff out of a junk box for a quarter, bully for me.

ms70

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but it's interesting how we want to lynch a dealer for ripping off a collector who might not be totally
aware of something in a deal. Though it seems it's ok if the collector rips the dealer who might be making the same innocent error.

centmaster

Let's pretend the dealer recognized it as FB when it was offered to him. Now, how many dealers would tell the guy who brought it in what it was worth and pay him 75-80% of the value, which would be fair? Maybe 1 out of 50? Case closed on our end if it's now sitting in his stock. It's a no brainer and we shouldn't feel guilty in the slightest since he's supposed to be a professional. Just don't EVER tell him or he may scrutinize future purchases of yours. One sidenote: a lecturer at the ANA Baltimore last year said he routinely picks varieties from dealers' stock and tells them after the fact, and when they see him coming now, they sometimes don't let him look. I don't understand dealers like this. If they are too lazy to look or have too large an inventory, then how are they hurt by someone like this? They probably would never look at most of their stock anyway!

Topdollarpaid

I went into to a shop and bought a large group of proof sets (about $3,000.00 worth) Low and behold I find a 1971 set with no "S" on the Nickel... Quess what I told the dealer when I went in the shop the next day. ??

NOTHING !!

Cherry picking is fair game.

If you come into my shop and I price a coin under market and you want it - BUY IT -

And please come back soon, we love coin collectors.

If you get a deal now and then it will keep you smiling

LAWMAN

Cherry picking from somebody, especially somebody in the business, is always good. I'd settle in for a couple of days at the coin shop to see what else he has underpriced. As for the wife while he's away, too bad for him and her. That's capitalism. I get rewarded for being smarter, better educated and informed, and for good timing.

ccrdragon

No ethical delima in either case - they sell it, I buy it, it's mine!!!!