Grade this 1926-S Buffalo nickel

ccex

This is an example of why I don't collect Buffalo Nickels seriously. I have mastered grading of Barber and Seated Liberty coins, and have a pretty good idea about Morgan dollars and Walkers. However, I'm afraid of the weak strikes in the middle of the Buffalo Nickel series, and haven't spent serious money on any coins of this type I can't grade.

A favorite eBay seller (who I have met in person, and who has sold me a couple of coins in my type set and Barber sets) posted this key date 1926-S nickel on eBay. He advertises it as VF-20 stating that even some uncirculated examples of this tough date lack a full horn. I'd guess F-15, but what say you?<p>

mgoodm3

i like the f15 number, but i'm no expert on buffs

fcloud

VF20

Yea I know it doesn't have a full horn, but the grade is right.

wingedliberty

I say only an F12

coinkat

It would be in the F12-F15 range tops

jdimmick

Here we go again!

Here's is my two cents worth on this subject?

IMO, The coin probaly grades F-15 or near miss 20, but not becuase of the lack of horn detail. The is a little too much wear in several points.
However, you are going to find several coins like the 26-s that are just a tad better than this that are in fact graded vf that have about the same horn detail, maybe a tad more. They will be graded by the TPG's as Vf as well, becuase of the overall wear of the coin.

But it has always been of the opinion of myself that the reason for the giant price jump at Vf, is becuase buyers expect to see full horn details, and they want detail that is commensurate with what a typical Vf coin should look like. There are full horn 26-s buff's in VF out thier, it's just going to take some looking to find one. Dont settle for a softer struck 26-s, especially at the full vf price.

jim

FullHorn

F15 due to overall wear around the rim and on the date,tail and shoulder, but because of the massive price change from F to VF you can call it F15++++++

MacCoin

fine to very fine $25.00 to $30.00 coin. nice find a for sure keys date

Coinerww

Fine 12

ccex

<< <i>Here we go again!

Here's is my two cents worth on this subject?

IMO, The coin probaly grades F-15 or near miss 20, but not becuase of the lack of horn detail. The is a little too much wear in several points.
However, you are going to find several coins like the 26-s that are just a tad better than this that are in fact graded vf that have about the same horn detail, maybe a tad more. They will be graded by the TPG's as Vf as well, becuase of the overall wear of the coin.

But it has always been of the opinion of myself that the reason for the giant price jump at Vf, is becuase buyers expect to see full horn details, and they want detail that is commensurate with what a typical Vf coin should look like. There are full horn 26-s buff's in VF out thier, it's just going to take some looking to find one. Dont settle for a softer struck 26-s, especially at the full vf price.

jim >>

<p>

Thanks for the quick commentary. This last post addressed my concern perfectly. It seems my friend is hoping for VF money (c. $350) instead of F money (c. $60). This date is weakly struck so often that even the Redbook mentions it as an exception to grading for the rest of the series. I'm more curious to see where his auction will end than what a TPG service might call this.<p>Auction link

ms70

VF20

DennisH

VF20

RGL

F-15 in my book, but given date and standards, could sneak by a VF-20 ... could have old cleaning, but will be forgiven.

OnlyBuffalos

Most collectors do not give much importance to the horn on the early and mid 1920 S and D buffalos. The lack of a clear seperation between LIBERTY and the rim would preclude a VF grade in my book. I would not pay VF money for this coin. To me its a F!5 or F18. That said, I have seen this level of detail on slabbed VF coins including PCGS.

gemini12398

f 15 is my guess

lazeroo

F-12

mojorizn

I'm with the majority on this one. David Lange goes so far as to say that the reverse dies for this issue may have been "leftovers" from previous years, as they are so worn.

Without a doubt the '26-S is frequently found in TPG holders in VF or even XF grades when they in no way meet the criteria for those grades. This date & branch is often graded on the basis of overall wear rather than the purists horn detail method.

My opinion: F15.

mojo

relayer

15

bosox

VF-20. David W. Lange's guide to Buffalo's says "Worn reverse dies are the norm for the 1926-S.....Weakness in the bison's head is common enough that many examples offered as VF and XF do not meet the criteria for these grades and have been assigned them simply on the basis of overall wear. Well struck coins are worth a substantial premium over lesser examples."

dorkkarl

boy oh boy, that coin brings back BAD memories. today, i would grade that f-15. but that is a virtual identical twin to a coin i had in a pcgs vf-35 holder, that anacs subsequently graded FINE-12, a 23 point grading differential. at the time, i fell for the whole line of baloney about weak strikes, so you grade 'em higher, etc etc. don't make the same mistake! that coin's worth FINE $$$, & no more! don't get suckered like i did!!!

K S

Shamika

F-12

The details are clear, but the wear is significant.

UncleJoe

F-12 maybe F-15 is ok for this coin but NEVER VF.

And especially NOT VF if looking at any price guide's value. Any price guide's VF value is for a FULL HORN. Call this coin VF if you must but don't pay VF published prices for it.

Joe.

LanLord

This is an issue that I think needs some serious and probably painful correction.

Coins need to be graded on the amount of wear they have, not on the the fact that some dates are tough to find in a particular grade.

If there are some date/MM pairs that don't exist above a particular level because the came out of the mint so poorly struck, that too bad, but that's the way it is.

I hate the fact that middle twenties buffs with a mintmark get a boost in grade because they are all poorly struck.

Just my humble opinion.

rhedden

Regardless of what it grades, it has the value of an F-15. You can call it VF-20 / softly struck, but the fact that 1926-S is usually softly struck does not make this coin worth full VF-20 money!

mr1931S

Very fine. The details still evident on this coin support my conclusion notwithstanding its lack of a full horn (barely). Call it very fine. If selling, ask for vf money. The coin really is quite sharp in appearance.

Shamika

<< <i>Coins need to be graded on the amount of wear they have, not on the the fact that some dates are tough to find in a particular grade. >>


LanLord is correct. I can almost accept a coin being forgiven for a poor strike when it comes to MS grading (MS63 as opposed to a more deservedly MS61). However, once wear is visible on the coin, all bets are off.

Are we grading the coin based on value or valueing the coin based on grade? That's the guestion.

jonesy

F12, Cleaned.

EvilMCT

It looks like it's been covered already so F-12/15.

Ken

Elcontador

I went through this in grading a 24 S Buff I found in change. There's a huge jump in price between F & VF (something like $50 and $350). My coin was technically a VF 20. However, no one in the know will pay VF $ for a mid-twenties mint marked buff (usually San Francisco) w/o a full horn. Pay fine $ for this coin, or pass.

If you want a 26 S with a full horn, take your time in finding one. I finally found a slabbed PCGS XF 1924 S that IMO had VF details (including a full horn). I get the feeling that this is the norm, rather than the exception with these coins.

DDR

I think Rheddon has it exactly right. I would grade the coin F-15, but whatever you grade it, it has the market value of an F-15.

Owl

F-15

Shamika

<< <i>I went through this in grading a 24 S Buff I found in change. >>


Are you kidding?

mojorizn

"Are we grading the coin based on value or valueing the coin based on grade? That's the guestion."

EXCELLENT point, Shamika. I've never heard that expressed better!

the moj of jo

lordmarcovan

F12.

Maybe F15 on a very good day, but I could never call that VF20, personally.

Of course, I'm no Buffalo specialist.

buffnut

F 13.5
The flat spot on the hip is too large for VF, and the horn lacks sufficient detail. The Indian's braid is also fairly weak. I would attribute this to a combination of strike weakness and wear, looking at the general condition of the coin. If it were only a weak strike, there would be far less chatter in the fields and devices.

Wondo

The fact that the price jumps five-fold from F to VF should preclude giving a break to the higher graded due to a soft strike. The fact that these guys are tough in "real" VF is reflected in the price guides!

GoYankees

F12

mr1931S

Here's a 24S for sale on ebay as we speak...PCGS VF25....

24S-PCGSVF2524S-otherside

Elcontador

Shamika, I found the coin in change 35 years ago & held onto it for a long time. I found most Buffs in change except for the 13S & D (both types), the overdate, 3 legger & the 21S.

Re the 24 S on E-Bay; my coin looked better than that. LIBERTY was clear of the rim, the obverse had more detail & the horn was more full.

gemini12398

15, the date merges into the rim. If it didn't, it would be a 20

jcping

Technically, it is F15. Without paying VF20 money, you might not be able to get it

mr1931S

If PCGS says the 24S in the link I provided a few posts back is VF25 (doesn't have a full horn), they must be using the obverse as the "determiner" of the overall grade for the typically weakly struck 20's S mint Buffs.

On the 24S, LIBERTY is off the rim and the date is complete. If PCGS says the 24S is VF25, I think they might say the 26S is VF. To my eyes, the 26S is not quite as sharp overall as the 24S but should be seen by PCGS as sharp enough to be called VF20.

should be... famous last words.

mintluster

F15 I think. But I am usually conservative.

BigD5

You don't grade that coin vf.

The reverse on these coins are usually very weak, so grade the obverse. That obverse isn't sharp. If the obv. was a full vf, that coin would slab vf, regardless of the horn detail.

mr1931S

From Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection by PCGS,

Buffalo Nickels

The grades of VF-20/35 have up to half of their detail worn away. There will be wear across the entire obverse, including the protected areas. There is hair detail, though much of the sharpness is gone. On some coins, the rim may touch the top of LIBERTY, especially in the lower VF grades. The reverse will have wear across the entire bison and in the protected areas. Normally, the horn will be full, but the tip may be slightly worn. In lower VF grades and on coins that were weakly struck, the tip of the horn will not be present. On some coins the rims may touch the head and tail of the bison.

F-12/15 coins will have lost up to 75 percent or more of their detail, but LIBERTY will be sharp and usually is separated from the rim. The hair will show little detail, and the hair braid will probably be visible only in outline. The date should be full, though it may not be sharp. The reverse has some detail on the bison, and approximately half to two-thirds of the horn will be present. As noted previously, weakly struck coins will exhibit less of this feature. The rim will be complete, but it may be flat in some areas.

The 26S looks to me as though it has something more than half of its detail remaining, although not more than half by much. From the standpoint of "detail remaining," if my assessment of "not more than half by much" is correct, according to the PCGS guide, the 26S is a "lower" VF, a VF20.

If it were my coin and I was trying to sell it? Barely VF. Barely 20. If you like it I will sell it to you for no less than CDN VF bid and will always be a buyer at no less than "10 back of bid."

griffin6

I grade this coin $200! If you send it to any of the major services ten times, it will grade Fine 12 once, Fine 15 six times and VF 20 or 25 three times. EVEN in a major VF holder, however, most knowledgable buyers are going to want SOME discount from bid... not so much because of the horn, but more so the blurry details on the obverse in conjunction with the horn. It is NOT a sixty dollar coin, nor is it a $350 coin... in between, however, is a lot of room for negotiation!

There are actually several 26-S dies that provide a full horn VF... if you find a 24-S with a horn tip, however, GRAB it... it will be AT LEAST a 35!!!