My biggest dealer turn-off: the one-way market
kranky
Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
I can accept some less-than-spectacular service, a curt reception at a busy show, and quoting a very high price with the expectation of haggling it down. But the one thing that truly sours me on a dealer is hearing that they don't want to buy - or even make an offer on! - coins that are comparable to the ones they sell every day.
Reading the CW today, I noticed ads from two very prominent dealers and recalled how some members here were upset because they wouldn't even make an offer on material which would fit in nicely with their regular stock. One of them is a specialist in a particular niche and didn't even want to make an offer on the same coins which he touts as the best.
Yes, dealers deserve to make a buck, and that's not the issue. If you run ads all the time claiming to be "the market maker" or you always say "We're buying!", and I hear from other members that it's just a line of BS, don't expect any of my business.
I don't know why that honks me off so bad. I guess it's because it makes me think the dealer is just a huckster, pushing coins on people with a big sales job, but behind the scenes he doesn't believe the coins are as great as he's claiming. And only keeps saying "We're buying!" in order to try to cherrypick something on the cheap.
Reading the CW today, I noticed ads from two very prominent dealers and recalled how some members here were upset because they wouldn't even make an offer on material which would fit in nicely with their regular stock. One of them is a specialist in a particular niche and didn't even want to make an offer on the same coins which he touts as the best.
Yes, dealers deserve to make a buck, and that's not the issue. If you run ads all the time claiming to be "the market maker" or you always say "We're buying!", and I hear from other members that it's just a line of BS, don't expect any of my business.
I don't know why that honks me off so bad. I guess it's because it makes me think the dealer is just a huckster, pushing coins on people with a big sales job, but behind the scenes he doesn't believe the coins are as great as he's claiming. And only keeps saying "We're buying!" in order to try to cherrypick something on the cheap.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
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Mike
<< <i>If the coins are "moderns" I can understand the dealers behavior >>
Why would it be any different for a moderns dealer than any other dealer?
Russ, NCNE
even a specialist in a niche doesn't need to have 32 (a made up number which = too many) examples of a particular date / mint at one time.
I'm not quite buying the 'they don't want you to know how enormous their mark-up is so they won't make an offer' explanation.
I learned that hard lesson in the 1976-1980 era when 2 of my local dealers refused to make offers on coins they had sold me. One had been selling me commems as MS65 and refused to buy them back. He preferred to get them off the street at 10-30 cents on the dollar rather than pay fair (60-80%) to buy them back. The other dealer claimed they had never sold me the coin I was offering back to them(it was a BU reeded edge half). I walked out on both immediately and never returned.
When dealers don't offer a 2 way market I too get sort of PO'd and usually don't ever offer them coins again. In fact there are 2 major dealers who I won't offer coins too and pretty much won't buy from again. C'est la hobby. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Or did Bush say that was "you can't have your cake if you ate it ."??
roadrunner
Its just those huge ads that blast out" we buy everything, all the time at the highest prices."
Such is not the case, can never be practical or indeed possible and is to a degree, false advertising.
Camelot
And Kranky has been ther when this has happened.
For example a 1977 PCGS-65 Ike a few weeks ago cost me all of 9.00.
jim
If your CW ad says "We are always buying", you are going to get calls from collectors. People who have a clue. If you have a coin in your ad for $200 and the description says how hard they are to find, why wouldn't you make an offer for the same coin? All I can think of is that your ad is full of BS.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
don't deal in moderns.
Most of us have been around long enough to know that on the typical "bread and
butter" coins that the dealers usually buy at a small percentage of the retail price
and sell for as close to retail as they can get and usually this isn't very close. Most
will offer more to regular or good customers and lower the price more to them when
selling.
While it's almost always better to sell to a specialist one can rarely get a good price
on much from his local dealer and this will go double for moderns.
What is a "criminally high" markup in terms of percentage, or dollars, over and above what the dealer has to pay to acquire an item with hope of selling the item for a profit?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I let a couple Dealers that specialize in Seated Coins know that I may sell some of my stuff and they were VERY eager to make an offer. (I haven't shown the material yet)
Ray
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Every dealer waits for that 'estate sale' so they can buy in bulk and sell 50-60% higher. There is risk for sure but buying big collections [$100k+] eliminates alot of dealer competition and you get a lower price.
About 2 years ago I had a well known wholesaler hound me for weeks to buy his sight unseen Flowing Hair $s, halves and qtrs. I was going to buy 2 $'s in AU50 & 55 but decided to buy from someone else when at FUN he blew off another collector with a blue slab box crammed with rarities like SLQ 1916, a couple of 1856 FEs, 1893-S Morgan, 1916-D Merc, couple of Bust gold eagles, etc. There must have been $300+k in that lil blue box. Anyway, the seller/collector had been referred to this bozo by another prominent dealer and the wholesaler looked through about half the slabs and said no he was not interested. I wanted to grab that box and say let me take a look see there!
I thought maybe he was out of his league the wholesaler? Knew the seller was experienced and was not going to give away his coins? Or knew if big shot dealer passed on the coins maybe he should too?
Depending on what you have to sell your best bet is to go the auction route and save the anxiety of dealing with lame dealers who have a sign that doesn;t really mean what the sign says.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
Speaking for myself, I WILL buy anything and everything at a price. However, if I'm in a competitive bid situation, I won't make an offer unless I'm willing to pay something close to top dollar. For example, if someone walks up to my table and wants to know what I'll pay for a large suitcase full of proof sets, I just pass. It will be too easy for the seller to find a higher buyer and my time will end up wasted. On the other hand, if someone walks into my office with the same deal, I will make a fair offer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>If the coins are "moderns" I can understand the dealers behavior >>
Why would it be any different for a moderns dealer than any other dealer?
Russ, NCNE >>
It could be because many moderns don't even have sheet prices because they're thinly traded, so the seller can make a huge profit claiming "high demand" that doesn't really exist for his coins. Since there's no established market, no one knows what the "market price" is for them.
Obscurum per obscurius
you should see what goes on when you get your car repaired,and im not talking things that were not required.
It could be because many moderns don't even have sheet prices because they're thinly traded, so the seller can make a huge profit claiming "high demand" that doesn't really exist for his coins. Since there's no established market, no one knows what the "market price" is for them.
My experience is that most of the owners of these coins have paid too much for the coins, at least IMHO, and they aren't going to sell at the prices I offer until maybe a dozen dealers make similar offers. Therefore, I don't make offers on these coins because I figure and can't buy the coins and, more importantly, the seller is liable to think I'm trying to cheat them. I don't need the aggravation or the bad will, especially over nonsense coins that I probably can't buy anyway.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I sold my entire collection off in 1979. At just about every dealer I went to, they simply wanted the Key and Semi-key coins. I did manage to find a dealer in which was willing to pay fair prices for the sets. That changed the way I collect. I am building a Mercury Dime set (and a few other small thing) completely for fun. I know these coins probably will not give me a return on my investment, but I knew this going in. There will be a few coins in the set that will continue up in value and that is a good thing, however, I consider the set fun.
If you are only making purchases for investment, purchase only high end key coins and you will do just fine. And almost any dealer would love to purchase these when you are ready to sell. Don't blame the dealers for the whole situation boils down to something one should have learned in high school economics-- Supply and Demand.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
High school economics teaches us that there's a price for everything. Even for moderns and non-keys.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>High school economics teaches us that there's a price for everything. Even for moderns and non-keys. >>
Right. The only difference is that this "price" is probably nowhere Greysheet bid for moderns and most non-keys, at least from a dealer's buying perspective. If they don't think they can quickly churn the coins to others with at least a modest profit, they'll either require a higher margin to compensate, or pass on it completely.
<< <i>High school economics teaches us that there's a price for everything. Even for moderns and non-keys. >>
Yes there is a market for these, too. But from an investment only prospective and to minimize risk, stick with what always seems to be in demand.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>About 2 years ago I had a well known wholesaler hound me for weeks to buy his sight unseen Flowing Hair $s, halves and qtrs. I was going to buy 2 $'s in AU50 & 55 but decided to buy from someone else when at FUN he blew off another collector with a blue slab box crammed with rarities like SLQ 1916, a couple of 1856 FEs, 1893-S Morgan, 1916-D Merc, couple of Bust gold eagles, etc. There must have been $300+k in that lil blue box. Anyway, the seller/collector had been referred to this bozo by another prominent dealer and the wholesaler looked through about half the slabs and said no he was not interested. I wanted to grab that box and say let me take a look see there! >>
I will come to the defense of the above mentioned dealer, only from the facts mentioned in the quote.
It's obvious one dealer had already passed on what sounds like some great coins. Why refer this type of material to someone else? There was either something wrong with the coins, wrong with the seller or wrong with the price of the coins.
Forum members regularly make comments on negitive things they've witnessed on the bourse floor. Please don't be to quick to come to conclusions about what you are seeing. There are certain sellers that hit all the shows constantly bothering the dealers, bringing the same old coins over and over and over. The coins are usually overgraded, overpriced and with problems, etc, etc, etc....they will sit at your table, take up space and time. What you may be witnessing is the result of many prior interactions between the dealer and the seller. Don't get me wrong, I'm not coming to the defense of all dealers, there are MANY rude and untrustworthy dealers that I will not do business with.
Just look at how intolerant forum members are of newbies on the forum who ask stupid questions or come here thinking they know everything.
Here is my take on all of this.
Yes many dealers are just out for number one, but then aren’t we all. This market is not a totally liquid market, it has come along way, but it is still not liquid and perhaps it has come as far as it can go.
Education is of course the key in any collecting you do, and the hardest part of the education in coins was always grading, and if collectors will buy only the top two slabs then they can spend their education time on the economics of the market.
A thread posted this last week was posted to discuss the market, and compare bid and ask prices between Grey sheets, CW coin values, etc. Hardly anyone cared to discuss this subject and it died after just a few replies, that’s to bad as this is one of the most important things we need to be doing here.
If you are a multi-millionaire and paper money means nothing to you then you can collect anything you like regardless of what might happen to the market price.
If one the other hand your money does have some meaning to your lifestyle then you really need to do your homework on true market values of what you are buying.
If you are a gambler and want to buy highly graded moderns, at outrageous prices, then I can’t see that you would have a complaint when a dealer does not want to buy into your foolish mentality. Look at Russ’s post last week, all the people that owned these high grade Kennedy’s just lost half of their investment, so how could you blame a dealer for not wanting into this market.
One of the problems that many collectors have, and in fact many Americans have, is that have a tendency to think of certain professional salesmen, not as salesmen but as ethical experts. Coin dealers, stockbrokers, bond salesmen, etc. etc. are professional salesmen. They should be mentally classed in the same category as used car salesmen, but slicker.
Besides buying nice coins and trying to have a little fun our main job is not to get cheated, or sucked in along the way.
If you have been collecting coins that you have no idea if a dealer might want them, call a few and ask for some prices. If they just laugh then its time to rethink your collecting habits. I am not defending the dealers here, I think of them all as slick salesmen, but I cannot see why it is totally their fault that a collector made bad buying decisions and bought their junk coins.
There are over 14,000 members here and who knows how many readers, if tomorrow everyone would just say NO, the prices on all this over priced toned material, ridiculously priced modern material etc. etc. would drop like a rock, more in line with the real value of these coins. Keep one very important point in mind, we are the ones that set the market prices, if we all buy the price goes up, if we all sell the price goes down, if we just stop for a few months the market will drop. If when we walk up the that table and this slick little dealer pulls out all these “shiny” over priced coins we just laughed and said “ I buy everything, but I am not buying any of those” guess what would happen next.
cents. Dealers refusal to buy or make offers for widely collected coins like indian cents is the
subject of this thread. Most of those talking about a one way market in moderns or an inability
to sell them have likely never owned a modern or tried to sell one. These are not widely collect-
ed coins. Yes, there are millions of people now collecting states quarters and other coins from
circulation but these people rarely in get into shops or shows looking to buy coins and even more
rarely are seeking to sell them.
Those who do buy and sell such coins understand this is a small (but rapidly growing) niche mar-
ket. Just as you don't offer hard times tokens to a silver dollar specialist or your local dealer, you
don't offer most moderns to just any dealer. Oh sure, most will offer 80% of bid or more for mint
packaged sets but it's easy to get 105%+ of bid from a specialist. The local dealer will probably
have no customer for a coin like a $50 '77 Ike so why offer it to him?
So, ask yourself why this is a niche market? Why should coins that are loved by the public and
having so many great attributes as a collectible be a tiny niche market in the overall scheme of
coin collecting? How is it possible that the coin market of 1964 revolved around coins of recent
date and it was the older coins which were a niche market while today not only are these coins
older than what were then hot but there are always many who want to denigrate them? Moderns
aren't the be all and end all of numismatics, but to hear some people tell it they are the ruination.
<< <i>Why would it be any different for a moderns dealer than any other dealer? >>
I specialize in older coins, and to be candid about it I have had hard time selling the few modern coins that collectors have given me to sell on consignment at anywhere near the high prices that I see batted about on this and other boards. I pass on offers of modern coins, unless it is Proof sets at 10 % in back of bid or something like that, because I just don't have the right customers for that material.
When I can't buy something, I will often tell the person who offered me the material to check with "dealer X" who is more into that market. And sometimes "Dealer X" dealers have referred the collectors to me when they know that I am a stronger buyer in that area that they don't specialize in.
There are times when as a business person you just don't want to tie up capital in coins that are slow sellers for you. If I have sold the item to a collector I will make an effort to buy it back at a stronger price, but for total strangers I've got to pick and choose my purchases.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why would it be any different for a moderns dealer than any other dealer? >>
I specialize in older coins, and to be candid about it I have had hard time selling the few modern coins that collectors have given me to sell on consignment at anywhere near the high prices that I see batted about on this and other boards. I pass on offers of modern coins, unless it is Proof sets at 10 % in back of bid or something like that, because I just don't have the right customers for that material.
When I can't buy something, I will often tell the person who offered me the material to check with "dealer X" who is more into that market. And sometimes "Dealer X" dealers have referred the collectors to me when they know that I am a stronger buyer in that area that they don't specialize in.
There are times when as a business person you just don't want to tie up capital in coins that are slow sellers for you. If I have sold the item to a collector I will make an effort to buy it back at a stronger price, but for total strangers I've got to pick and choose my purchases. >>
Herein lies the major point I've been trying to make. There is and has been a real
market for the sets for a few years now. The greater interest and higher prices have
brought many of them out of storage recently which has satisfied current demand and
stifled further price increases. But the numbers of these sets had been severely erod-
ed even before this new demand appeared. There are no longer vast quantities of these
sets sitting in back rooms and basements. As the number on the market continues to
decrease and the numbers of collectors continues to increase, where is the difference
going to be made up? While some believe there are vast hordes of this material just
lying in wait to be sprung on the market, insiders know that this is simply not the case
with most of these coins.
When demand outstrips supply on the sets then you'll suddenly see a lot more interest
in coins like the $50 Ike, but it's not going to be $50 anymore. More importantly perhaps
is the lower grade coins which will have a great deal more demand such as what is now
a $5 Ike. Almost all dealers who sell coins like these get them from mint sets. Where will
they get them when there is actually some real competition for the sets?
Before I purchased the coin, I asked the seller, "What is my downside for a coin like this?" He replied that he was selling the coin for about 10% more than he purchased the coin (and he provided the auction reference), that he would happily purchase the coin again in the near future at or above the price he originally paid for it, that he would accept the coin in trade for the price I paid for it, and that hopefully, sometime down the road, he would be able to buy back all the coins he has sold me at a profit to me. With that, I was very comfortable purchasing the coin and many others since.
Bottom line, work with a dealer who regularly buys and sells quality items in the area of your interest. You will not have a problem.
While Kranky didn't state it explicitly, I suppose that that applies to that blue box of better dates too.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Thanks kranky, interesting topic.
Here is my take on all of this.
Yes many dealers are just out for number one, but then aren’t we all. This market is not a totally liquid market, it has come along way, but it is still not liquid and perhaps it has come as far as it can go.
Education is of course the key in any collecting you do, and the hardest part of the education in coins was always grading, and if collectors will buy only the top two slabs then they can spend their education time on the economics of the market.
A thread posted this last week was posted to discuss the market, and compare bid and ask prices between Grey sheets, CW coin values, etc. Hardly anyone cared to discuss this subject and it died after just a few replies, that’s to bad as this is one of the most important things we need to be doing here.
If you are a multi-millionaire and paper money means nothing to you then you can collect anything you like regardless of what might happen to the market price.
If one the other hand your money does have some meaning to your lifestyle then you really need to do your homework on true market values of what you are buying.
If you are a gambler and want to buy highly graded moderns, at outrageous prices, then I can’t see that you would have a complaint when a dealer does not want to buy into your foolish mentality. Look at Russ’s post last week, all the people that owned these high grade Kennedy’s just lost half of their investment, so how could you blame a dealer for not wanting into this market.
One of the problems that many collectors have, and in fact many Americans have, is that have a tendency to think of certain professional salesmen, not as salesmen but as ethical experts. Coin dealers, stockbrokers, bond salesmen, etc. etc. are professional salesmen. They should be mentally classed in the same category as used car salesmen, but slicker.
Besides buying nice coins and trying to have a little fun our main job is not to get cheated, or sucked in along the way.
If you have been collecting coins that you have no idea if a dealer might want them, call a few and ask for some prices. If they just laugh then its time to rethink your collecting habits. I am not defending the dealers here, I think of them all as slick salesmen, but I cannot see why it is totally their fault that a collector made bad buying decisions and bought their junk coins.
There are over 14,000 members here and who knows how many readers, if tomorrow everyone would just say NO, the prices on all this over priced toned material, ridiculously priced modern material etc. etc. would drop like a rock, more in line with the real value of these coins. Keep one very important point in mind, we are the ones that set the market prices, if we all buy the price goes up, if we all sell the price goes down, if we just stop for a few months the market will drop. If when we walk up the that table and this slick little dealer pulls out all these “shiny” over priced coins we just laughed and said “ I buy everything, but I am not buying any of those” guess what would happen next. >>
I've ttt'ed an old thread for you. I'd love to hear some input from you (or anyone) to
the topic. I've continued to seek this hype in moderns and instead what I see are slights
to the coins and those who collect them.
While it's certainly true that "we" do set the prices for coins (inconjuntion with availability),
it's more true that "we" are all different with different aspirations and interests.
Wise words to be heeded. Note that RYK wrote buys and sells in the area of your interest.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Good dealers are a rare and vaulable find. There are two theories to salesmanship...one is that you can "do" everybody one time and your strategy is to get as many people as possible in your door so you can get your chance at them (lots of advertising). The other theory is that you "do" one guy for life and just keep getting good quality people in your camp until you have a group of people that can provide for your living in exchange for a good service. Of course to have that camp established means that you have to deliver and you have to be sharp and you have to stay on your game, you have to provide a good and honest service that benefits you and your followers.
For a serious collector that has a budget, having a good dealer, a brother in coins, is the foundation of what ever follows you having educated yourself. Having a predatory dealer means that you are just meat ona pointy stick. Kinda like going to the doctor and saying "It hurts when I do this..." and the doctor tells you to "stop doing that and give me $50 for the visit!" So for all with dealer wars...find a good one and life will be better, you can relax and feel good about your purchases. When you look at that coin you feel good as opposed to feeling like you are missing a finger or something. So, buy a couple of coins from a guy over a month or two, it won't take long to see who is and who isn't. If you go back a week later and try and sell the coin back to him, dont expect him to be gleeful with you...duh. The most interesting thing about coins (and all else) is that the book may say it's worth one thing and the coin guy may want this much for it but...everybody listening now...The coin is worth what you are willing to pay for it and the dealer is willing to accept at that moment in time...that is the real, absolute value in american dollars of that coin right now! If you feel itchy or your intuition tells you that that coin price may leave you a lot of downside risk then you have your answer to "Should I buy this coin?"
But, you have to look at the other side of the coin for dealers...everybody is lookin for a deal, everybody is trying for a rip...there's counterfeits, there's liars and cheats, there are more traps and pits than there are opportunities to do good. There's guys that buy a coin one week and three weeks later when rent is due they want what they paid for it back in cash (with the tax)...there's guys that hand out rubber checks, fradulent accounts, stolen credit cards, buy a big coin with a check and close the account the next day...the state of the general population is not good when it comes to desirable coins. If you are a dealer and easily fooled, your tenure will be short lived.
So it's like that old adage..."to have a good friend, be a good friend." If you want to have a good dealer relationship, be a good customer and that means being educated, know what you are buying and what it is worth, know what you are doing. If you want to be treated with respect then give respect but don't waste it.
Best of fun to y'all!!!
Mike
You could easily argue just the opposite. When everyone wants something, it's time to seriously consider selling. In the areas I collect, there are NO dealers providing reasonable liquidity. From my perspective, that's a good thing. It makes it easier for me to buy and it means that I've picked areas that have plenty of room to grow. On the other hand, I wouldn't put my life's savings into my collection...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
You could easily argue just the opposite. When everyone wants something, it's time to seriously consider selling. In the areas I collect, there are NO dealers providing reasonable liquidity. From my perspective, that's a good thing. It makes it easier for me to buy and it means that I've picked areas that have plenty of room to grow. On the other hand, I wouldn't put my life's savings into my collection... >>
Excellent point. Unless you're a dealer most of your profit will come from buying
right and how better to buy right than buying what other people don't want?
...And there is no better way to obtain quality than to pay at least a little more
than what others do.
I don't understand this logic. Contrarian?
What if other people don't end up changing their minds and wanting it, and you're stuck with it?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>how better to buy right than buying what other people don't want?
I don't understand this logic. Contrarian?
What if other people don't end up changing their minds and wanting it, and you're stuck with it? >>
This is always a real danger whether you buy what's popular or you buy what isn't.
The future can't be predicted so everything is a crapshoot. My response has been
to collect just about everything and trade off whatever is hot at the current time.
Along the way it's a hoot to work on my core collections and to be involved in the
hobby.
<< <i>especially over nonsense coins that I probably can't buy anyway. >>
Ah, so moderns are "nonsense" coins. Thanks for clearing that up.
Russ, NCNE
than what others do."
Right on. Price guides do not make the dealer any money nor do they get the collector into quality coins.
A dealer must first be a buyer in order to be a seller. Why shouldn't a dealer be selective as a buyer? Buying everything, even if some of it is cheap, makes no sense for a dealer or dealer wannabe who wants to survive.
I'm reminded of what I heard come out of the mouth of a Denver dealer a number of years ago.
"I could bury you."
Now for you newbies, by this dealer telling me he could "bury" me he means that he could sell me plenty of coins that I would either die with in my possession for lack of buyers should I ever decide to sell or that I would have to sell at a serious loss to get them out of my sight.
One has got to be selective about numismatic purchases. To not be selective is inviting yourself to be "buried." Collector or dealer, no difference. Dealers can be and are "buried" too.
Something to think about. Why would a dealer with good business sense sell what he knows to be a quality, in-demand coin for "bid" or "ask" (even if he bought at "10 back of bid" from another dealer) when he knows that one of his customers with an eye for quality will eventually come along and pay him close to retail, retail, or more than retail for it?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
and I think that's the complaint: that there a thin market, and big buy/sell spreads (if you can even find a buyer) for many, many coins, modern and classic alike. What they have in common, is that they're common.
I don't care if you're talking about Moderns in MS65 and PR65, or capped bust halves in Fine, or Morgans in MS63, if you pay "full retail" for them and later try to sell them, you will likely take a significant loss, if you can get any offers from dealers at all. Such material has a better market on eBay and other auction venues.
Now if you have MS69 and PF70 moderns, bust halves in mint state grades, or MS66 Morgans with bag toning, the resale market might be a little stronger.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I suspect that if it were easy to make a decent living by buying everything thrown at you near "bid" and selling it near "ask," many of us would have left our cubicles and dove into it a long time ago. The fact that this doesn't happen tells me that it's not feasible for a dealer to be able to buy a thinly-traded, marginal-level-of-interest coin for 75-80 cents on the dollar on a regular basis, no matter what it is.
For most people trying to get into it, the money's just not that good. Any time you do something a lot of people would love to do even at marginal pay, that's going to drive down the *average* ability to make a living at it. There's a certain value to loving your work. And many people would pursue a simpler, lower-income lifestyle to do what they truly *love* for work rather than trotting the briefcase to the cubicle for yet another 8-10 hours of staff meetings, cranky customers and project status reports.
Some dealers have very deceptive or outright dishonest advertisements and signs when it comes to buying. That's unfortunate. But there's a reason why some dealers can't pay much more than 30-40 cents on the "Red Book dollar" for many items -- if one could make a good living paying even 50-60 cents on the dollar, they would do so and beat their competition.
When I reminded him he sold it to me (and it was XF) at XF, he claimed there was NO WAY I bought it from him.
When I produced the sales receipt, he claimed there was NO WAY I bought it from him, it must have been his partner.
When I showed brought to his attention it was his handwriting, he claimed there was NO WAY he would pay XF for an obvious VF (at best) coin.
I ended up selling it at XF to another collector who concurred.
Since that time, I've spent a fair amount of dough, but none with that dealer.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>I don't understand this logic. Contrarian? What if other people don't end up changing their minds and wanting it, and you're stuck with it? >>
Here, I got an idea. How about everyone collect what THEY like and not worry about what other people think? Novel idea, no?
jom
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't understand this logic. Contrarian? What if other people don't end up changing their minds and wanting it, and you're stuck with it? >>
Here, I got an idea. How about everyone collect what THEY like and not worry about what other people think? Novel idea, no?
jom >>
peacockcoins