A Disturbing "New" Trend on eBay
braddick
Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
Now, with the new "MyeBay" page it is easy to spot who hasn't left feedback and those who have. I have noticed, more and more lately, Sellers are not leaving positive feedback after full payment is made.
For me, if a Seller takes Paypal, I'll immediately pay via that format. Out of twenty or so payments given out over the last week or so only two have left feedback, eighteen have not (and, some are board members!).
I know Sellers get a bit nervous, but really, what is the excuse not to leave feedback in a timely manner? What is twice as baffling are those Sellers who do not leave feedback even after I, the buyer, leave feedback.
The new system makes leaving feedback easy and painless. Why it's not used more often than it is is beyond me.
For me, if a Seller takes Paypal, I'll immediately pay via that format. Out of twenty or so payments given out over the last week or so only two have left feedback, eighteen have not (and, some are board members!).
I know Sellers get a bit nervous, but really, what is the excuse not to leave feedback in a timely manner? What is twice as baffling are those Sellers who do not leave feedback even after I, the buyer, leave feedback.
The new system makes leaving feedback easy and painless. Why it's not used more often than it is is beyond me.
peacockcoins
0
Comments
Once you've left feedback as a seller & then held "feedback hostage" by a buyer you'll understand.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>Once you've left feedback as a seller & then held "feedback hostage" by a buyer you'll understand. >>
That's happened to me. Twice. But, why would I allow others actions to dictate my own?
peacockcoins
Unfortunate, but dead on.
Generally, I will leave positive feedback promptly upon receiving feedback from the buyer. Repeat customers or board members I'll usually post feedback promptly also, regardless of receiving it or not.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
A "power seller" may have to leave 20 or more feedbacks per day. Easy to fall behind when selling is the main priority (as well as everything else in life).
I can understand the "feedback hostage" side of the arguement too.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I will say that I never look at a buyer feedback number in relation to considering leaving feedback.
I had a buyer who claimed the coin they purchased (ANACS holder) had somehow been "switched" from the time of the end of the auction and delivery to them. Possibly by someone in the PO.
I believe that buyer had 300+ positives.
The story gets even stranger, but I'll spare y'all the details.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I get a big laugh out of sellers that don't leave feedback and then send me an e-mail, basically TELLING me to leave feedback. Can't believe their view of things but I guess thats the way it goes..............................
<< <i>When I make a purchase, I pay immediately. If the seller doesn't wish to leave feedback right away, thanking me for holding up my end of the bargain, then I don't make a big deal of it but I certainly don't leave any feedback either.
I get a big laugh out of sellers that don't leave feedback and then send me an e-mail, basically TELLING me to leave feedback. Can't believe their view of things but I guess thats the way it goes.............................. >>
Usually when I sell, I don't leave feedback right away. But since I use delivery confirmation, I know when the buyer has received the coin.
Typically, if I don't hear anything from them for at least 2-3 days after I know they received the item, I assume they're satisfied with the coin (satisfied customers will keep quiet about their experience far more often than unsatisfied ones), and then I leave feedback even if they never do. Sure, they could still jerk me around after that time, but I think the chance of that is fairly small and I don't want to look like someone who refuses to give feedback unless my trading partner does as well. (I think I've given about 10 more than I've received.)
I think it's a reasonable middle ground between always giving feedback as soon as payment is received and protecting yourself from a "feedback hostage" situation.
From the seller's point of view, I do not leave positive feedback until the winning bidder does.
This is to make sure they are happy with their purchase and to avoid being threatened with negative if I don't lower the cost, refund part of their payment, or send them a second coin, or have them switch the coin and demand a refund... I have had all that happen, as others have said, it's called "feedback hostage".
There is no reason why a seller would leave negative feedback after they get positive however; an unscroupulous bidder has a reason to leave neg after positive.
Most people are honest however... there are just as many scam bidders as there are scam sellers on Ebay.
It could be that they are busy too... from a bidder point of view, you might pay right away however, many winners do not.
I have spent weeks sending emails, reminders over and over, then had to relist auctions... and that sucks, filling out forms, trying to get Ebay to refund your fees is not easy, the hassel, it is so time consuming....and I only run 10 to 15 auctions a week.
Many sellers spend too much time trying to get 10% of these winning bidders to pay... no time to leave feedback for high volume sellers, I am sure.
Combine all the non-paying bidders, with the ones who tell you "I'm sending a check" and 10 days later you still do not have payment, then the ones who do not ever pay or even return an email, then the ones who just send you a check without the item number or description or anything and you have to research who they are and try to figure out what they won! Then the ones who send you a check for the winning bid but, do not included shipping!
It can drive you nuts!!!
Okay, enough complaining... I leave positive feedback after the winning bidder does.
Anthony
Thankfully I have not had a problem or been held "hostage".
Joe.
funny, that's what it's called from the buyers point of view, also.
why not cut out all the BS sidestepping and cut right to the chase. feedback should be posted once your end of the transaction is complete, no waiting till the other party posts feedback and then respond in kind. let's face it, both parties do that and use feedback in a retaliatory way.
as has been mentioned in other threads, the solution for this is simple, if only eBay would get off their butt and do something. no feedback should be posted or made known to either party until both have posted feedback. that cuts out "hostage feedback" and also "feedback retaliation" in one fell sweep, or is that swoop??
unfortunately it will also cut out fun threads like this one.
al h.
I have always left feedback immeadiately after payment has been recieved. But then for the first time since I joined ebay in1998 i have a customer who wasnt happy with a certain product, and used that oppertunity to coierce my better judgement. So as far as Im concerned, if its a person who has bought before which alot of people return to my auctions, I will leave feedback, otherwise im waiting. as I will not allow some clown to force my better judgement to be changed due to "feedback retaliation"
and as far as Im concerned, people who do so are childish babys who neednt be visiting my auctions.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
My Ebay Sales
As a buyer I try to get the funds to the seller in a quick manner. If he takes Paypal it will be paid for if not minutes after the auction ends it will be paid within a few hours. If they don't take PayPal the funds go out the next day if under $1,000 priority mail, if over $1,000 it goes out express mail.
As a seller when payment is received on PayPal I immediately get the item ready to send out the next day. Depending on the final price I send the item Priority Mail, Priority with Sig Con, priority insured w/sig con, or registered. I then leave feedback and then email the buyer with his confirmation number while informing him of feedback has been left.
In my humble opinion the only reason I see why sellers don't leave feedback after they recieved the funds and they cleared. Which if there are no problems with the buyer he should get a positive feedback right away. In my opinion if the seller waits until he sees what the seller leaves it is the seller holding the buyer "hostage."
My only nuetral arose from a seller whom I had won 4 different auction on the same day. Since it ended on a sunday and they took CC cards over the phone only. I paid for the auctions on the next day before 10am. I should have gotten 4 positives. 2 of the auction items arrived fine, 1 arrived with only 1/2 the things I was supposed to get. After numerous emails and a couple phone calls I wasn't getting any satisfaction. So, on the two that arrived fine he got 2 positives. The one that was troubled I gave a nuetral to him. He slammed back with a nuetral to me. I really didn't care one way or the other. He then proceeded to file a Square Trade thing ... what a joke .. During our SQ disscusion I informed him that it had been 20 days since he recieved my funds and I still hadn't recieved the 4th item and he shouldn't worry about the nuetral as he was about to get a negitive ...
I can't really see how the buyers hold the sellers "hostage." If the seller runs a good auction and doesn't try and hype someting to which it is not by making outragous claims they will get their positive feedback. I always ask myself if the seller doesn't leave a feedback .. WHY ??
<< <i>I can't really see how the buyers hold the sellers "hostage." If the seller runs a good auction and doesn't try and hype someting to which it is not by making outragous claims they will get their positive feedback. >>
Assuming the buyer is honest and honorable, I agree. But if not, here's how a seller can be screwed:
Seller receives payment and ships item.
Seller leaves positive feedback.
Buyer then starts making unreasonable demands, threatening to leave negative feedback if you don't accommodate them.
Seller, having already left positive feedback, can not change it. Thus buyer's unreasonable behavior can go unchecked.
Seller either has to cave in to an unreasonable demand or risk eating a negative which s/he can not return.
Thankfully this has never happened to me. But I know it can, and I know it occasionally happens.
A done deal is not completed until both parties are satisfied with the transaction.
A deal is not made by the payment alone.
JM
347 feedbacks given.
I have found that as a buyer, buying from high volume sellers I tend to get maybe half leaving feedback, but as a seller, nearly every transaction results in a positive feedback to me.
Large sellers have better things to do than leave the same trite feedback 80 times a day I guess. LOL
Tyler
<< <i>As a seller I leave feedback when I get payment. I don't really sweat feedback. Once you have a few hundred what does it really matter? As a buyer when I get the item I leave feedback. >>
True, as long as you don't get too many dishonest sellers threatening to neg you if you don't cave in to unreasonable demands. My current rating (84) is unblemished, but it would only take a couple incidents like that to make a lot of people think long and hard about doing business with me.
<< <i>True, as long as you don't get too many dishonest sellers threatening to neg you if you don't cave in to unreasonable demands >>
I only buy PCGS/NGC coins on Ebay. I have found ALOT of problems come from raw coins on Ebay. Stick with PCGS/NGC coins and there is a higher probability that you will like the coin and the seller will either take a return or exchange if you are unhappy. Seems to work for me.
<< <i>
<< <i>As a seller I leave feedback when I get payment. I don't really sweat feedback. Once you have a few hundred what does it really matter? As a buyer when I get the item I leave feedback. >>
True, as long as you don't get too many dishonest sellers threatening to neg you if you don't cave in to unreasonable demands. My current rating (84) is unblemished, but it would only take a couple incidents like that to make a lot of people think long and hard about doing business with me. >>
True enough, and as long as you don't get too many sellers who take your money, don't deliver the product and refuse to work things out. I just went through this with a seller on eBay and they left me 3 retaliatory negatives. It doesn't sit well with me, and they lied completely, but no matter. their feedback stays with you long after they're gone and it takes mutual agreement or a court order to get the negative feedback removed. I'm heading to court...
(edited to add a link to my eBay feedback):
Link to my eBay feedback.
After further consideration I am leaning toward not leaving feedback until buyer has received item and is satisfied.
Here are my reasons:
1. Buyer is unhappy and wants a refund--in effect transaction cancelled. Positive feedback not necessary.
2. Buyer is a jerk and does a charge-back on his payment. I now have no payment-no need for feedback.
3. Buyer unhappy and threatens negative.
I think Keets has the right idea no feedback left until transaction is complete. Whether for good or for bad.
Feedback can be designated 'pending' and able to be changed up until both have left feedback.
Each party can know if it is positive, neutral or negative feedback 'pending'.
this way if someone is leaving me negative feedback I can contact them and work it out before it is officially left.
Pondering my path.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>Here are my reasons:
1. Buyer is unhappy and wants a refund--in effect transaction cancelled. Positive feedback not necessary.
2. Buyer is a jerk and does a charge-back on his payment. I now have no payment-no need for feedback.
3. Buyer unhappy and threatens negative. >>
1. As long as they paid quickly and they don't like the coin, hey, if they don't expect me to refund shipping costs if the item is substantially as advertised, it's still positive as far as I'm concerned. They paid promptly and didn't try to scam me. Sometimes what you get isn't quite what you pictured. As long as they were reasonable and not acting like jerks, I think it's still deserving of a positive. At worst, no feedback at all.
2. True -- though you could follow up on your original feedback, and besides, if you shipped with delivery confirmation to a confirmed PayPal address, you should be safe here. Yes, you'd be following up on positive feedback and it wouldn't show up in their ratings, but I tend to pay attention to replies and follow-ups. I'd read an attempted chargeback as a negative on the buyer, provided buyer received ther merchandise and it was substantially as described.
3. This is the best reason for a seller to not immediately give folks a positive. If a buyer has 500 positives and no negatives, though, I'll usually give the benefit of the doubt and believe that they are a reasonable person to conduct business with.
As a buyer, I will leave unsolicited feedback after I received what was advertised and paid for. If the seller wants to leave feedback (in most cases they already have) before I do, cool, but I really don’t mind either way.
As a seller, I don’t consider the transaction over until the buyer receives the merchandise, and had indicated in some way that they are satisfied. They can either email me that they received the item(s) or just post feedback (that lets me know that all is fine). I don’t require that they leave me feedback first, but I do require that they let me know that our transaction was satisfactory.
I got burned this week on eBay. I had a seller I had problems with (and tried everything possible to work out with them), which ended up not being worked out. After several phone calls to the seller, and with no success, I left negatives for that seller. That seller then retaliated and left me 3 negatives, and lied about the situation. The problem is that I already know how eBay handles (actual won’t handle) this situation. The previous 2 sellers who left me retaliatory feedback on eBay ended up getting NARU’ed – based on the facts I was able to present to eBay and they were able to prove. Nonetheless, they are gone from eBay, but I still retain the retaliatory (and false) negative feedback they left for me before they were gone.
Based on my latest experience (very negative) on eBay, I am considering never again leaving feedback of any kind for a SELLER on eBay – until they do. They hurt my reputation, and there I have no recourse through or with eBay. The eBay feedback system is very flawed – to say the least. Your mileage may vary.
Jim
PS: I take pride in my integrity in dealing with others. To have to bear a false mark of shame (retaliatory negative feedback), really chaps my ass, and I don’t take too kindly to it. The fight is on….
It's not a "new" trend, it's been that way for a long time. You can't fire back if you have used up all your ammo.
If somebody wants to bother to see if they have been left feedback before leaving it, it's easier to do now.
As a seller I leave feedback when I get the payment. As I buyer, now I look to see if the seller left me feedback. If so I leave feedback otherwise I don't bother. If it isn't important to them, it's not important to me
Feedback and $2 will get you a cup of coffee
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Jerry
<< <i>Has anybody ever received computer generated feedback? I won an item and recived a e-mail saying after I received the item and left positive feddback, their system was set up to put out a postive feedback on me.
Jerry >>
Yep! The pukes who just left me two retaliatory feedback comments, seemed to have left computer generated feedback for me. Works for them!
I have sold a total of 7 items on ebay.
I send email, and write in the package, that I will leave positive feedback once the buyer receives the item and lets me know that everything is good.
I don't say they have to leave it first or that they have to leave me positive feedback.
But, in case of lost/missing packages or misunderstandings, I don't leave it immediately.
However, I do watch my feedback and have had a few buyers not tell me they received it but rather just leave me feedback. I immediately leave feedback at that point as they have all stated they received the item and were happy (so, no issues to be worked out).
As a buyer, I also follow the above pattern. I don't ask for immediate feedback but state that I will inform the seller when the item is received and how it is (ie....not mangled, mistaken, etc) and that I will leave appropriate (I tell them if it is positive feedback...have not had any issues yet) feedback after they leave their feedback...and I also tell them the feedback I plan to leave.
I have had a few sellers (generally high feedback sellers) tell me they only leave feedback in an automated fashion AFTER it has been left for them.
So, out of principle (I am big on principle), I don't leave feedback. (I will if I notice they do...but, frankly, they don't care about one feedback rating or even 10)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
>>
1. As long as they paid quickly and they don't like the coin, hey, if they don't expect me to refund shipping costs if the item is substantially as advertised, it's still positive as far as I'm concerned. They paid promptly and didn't try to scam me. Sometimes what you get isn't quite what you pictured. As long as they were reasonable and not acting like jerks, I think it's still deserving of a positive. At worst, no feedback at all.
2. True -- though you could follow up on your original feedback, and besides, if you shipped with delivery confirmation to a confirmed PayPal address, you should be safe here. Yes, you'd be following up on positive feedback and it wouldn't show up in their ratings, but I tend to pay attention to replies and follow-ups. I'd read an attempted chargeback as a negative on the buyer, provided buyer received ther merchandise and it was substantially as described.
3. This is the best reason for a seller to not immediately give folks a positive. If a buyer has 500 positives and no negatives, though, I'll usually give the benefit of the doubt and believe that they are a reasonable person to conduct business with. >>
You have some valid points and that is why I am still pondering a change in my feedback response. I have yet to receive any recent feedback problems so I am not being driven to a change. It is mostly preemptive thinking. I will continue on my usual feedback response.
As a side note my only negative came early on in my ebay experience when feedback was not even transaction related--what a mess those days were. A person (no longer on eBay) gave nme a negative because he didn't like my description. I never had any dealings with him and he never bid on my auctions.
Rookie Joe
<< <i>I send email, and write in the package, that I will leave positive feedback once the buyer receives the item and lets me know that everything is good.
I don't say they have to leave it first or that they have to leave me positive feedback. >>
Yep. There you go.
When I e-mail a buyer that the shipment is in the mail, I usually tell them I'll leave them positive feedback as soon as they tell me they have received the item and that they're satisfied. I don't require that they send me a positive first. Now if they choose to give me a positive before e-mailing me that all is well, that's fine; however, that's not what I request. Just let me know everything's okay. If it becomes a dispute later, I at least have the original e-mail that says they got the item and they're happy with it.
A couple of times they never left me feedback. But there's a middle ground to be walked between being too willy-nilly liberal with feedback before you get confirmation and being a hard-a$$ about never giving feedback until the buyer has done so. There's a middle ground between being a dupe and being so jaded that you consider every trading partner to be a potential scammer until 100% proven otherwise. Neither extreme, IMO, is a good way to do business.
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Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I quit caring if sellers left me feedback or not after I got to a feedback rating of about 10. >>
I wonder after awhile if it really is all that important? As long as half the folks leave it thats probly good enough.
Everybody needs to quit being a chickenshiat and act like a man & leave feedback when you get your item or your payment or the deal is obviously completed. If somebody tries to shake you down them handle it like a man and tell them to go frig themselves.
To keep from getting negs just do this:
Don't charge unreasonable shipping.
Ship your stuff out quickly.
Cover you ass against "lost coins" by insuring them.
Be polite when emailing customers & sellers. Don't be rude & demand or IMPATIENT. Most of you were raised by wolves so I know that's hard.
If you do all this & still get a neg you probably got a hold to a psycho that will neg you no matter what you do so wtf
Feedback smeedback, it's not like they flog you with a cat-o-nine-tails or something.
He asked to return it and get a refund, which I agreed to. His main complaint was that the toning
was worse than stated, and it didn't show up well in the pic. He returned the quarter, I sent him a
money order for the purchase price (I also gave him half his shipping back, which he didn't demand)
and we both ended up with 2 positive feedbacks. Not all people are jerks!!! Its the first time I have
had something returned. I think if you treat people in a fair manner, most will treat you the same.