I was looking at 1799 Eagles at Balto yesterday. Prices were absurd. S&G of NJ had 5 of them! The two I looked at were an NGC45 and AU55. They wanted $12+ and $16K, respectively. Less than a year ago AU58s were going for a little under 10K.
BTW, I thought it interesting that just about every 1799 Eagle I saw was slabbed by NGC. One was raw.
I retailed 3 in NGC 58 in the last 2 months. 13,750., 14,500 and 14,750. Definitely not average 58's either with all 3 being off the market between 6 and 10 years.
Yes, I said "retailed". I have a customer base which is very specific and they also know and trust me enough to buy the coin when I say "it's a nice one" without having to see it on approval etc etc etc. I had one guy offer me sight unseen "on approval" for a 1797LE in PCGS 55 a few months ago.
I 'tried" to explain to him that nobody needs his sight unseen "on approval" offers, and that the coin would be sold in a day. He was one of those guys who just didn't believe no matter what you told him ( it's daytime at 12 noon Thad). The coin was sold while he played email with me. I've since crossed his name out of my book.
I reluctantly sold a few pieces ( 1799 in 58 and an 1801 in 61) last week in the wholesale channels ( cash flow). I see what appears to be the 58 and the 61 listed on someones website now for..........are you ready for this................
here it comes..................
are you ready?......................
$21,500.00!( 1799), and $27,000 for the 01 ( I sold this coin for 16 grand)
I am sorry but that's just tooooooooo high! Will the market prove me wrong? Maybe, but I will tell you this, I wouldn't want to be laft without a chair when the music stops on this one.
Develop a relationship with someone who knows early material. Don't go blapping your mouth around to 10 ( or more) different dealers saying "I'm looking, I want, I would like, let me know, etc etc etc. You are only stepping on your own private parts by doing so. You are making it appear that there are many more buyers than there are and bids jump because of that. Hence the illusion takes on it's own sort of reality. No matter how much you think you know, you're not a dealer and you don't know what you think you do. Relax. Build a relationship with one or two people who are knowlegeable and trustworthy and you will eventually get what you want and be happy happy.
What's happened to eagles is starting to happen in..............
Funny how everyone talks about the stigma of 60-62 grades as being stinky coins that nobody wants. When you show a coin like that at 61, do you hear anybody saying "I don't want that stinky MS61". I don't think so.
Funny how everyone talks about the stigma of 60-62 grades as being stinky coins that nobody wants.
There are some very nice 61s that may have been considered 58s in a previous area that are quite lovely. Perhaps weak strike/luster breaks/rub/marks would otherwise render them AU, but superior overall eye appeal bumps them up to 61. I have a couple that fit this description.
Nice coin, nice series, wacky prices. They WILL come down and come down hard. That's when I will buy them again, right now I'm a seller of all rare and early gold.
Ohbaby, please PM me a list of your $3's for sale. I am especially interested in the branch mint issues, Civil War dates, and low mintage issues of the late 70's and early 80's, just like everybody else.
I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval. Maybe after a few deals with someone I would trust them to do sight unseen business but to ask a new customer to buy sight unseen is absurd!!!
I am sure that you have good taste and experience in early gold but...offering a coin only sight unseen is fishy.
I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval.
John,
My guess is that Tom's early gold business is so brisk that he does not need to sell coins on approval as another buyer will step in buy the coins in question sight-unseen. I suspect that he also has some inventory that he will gladly sell on approval. I do not have any problem with it. When the early gold market softens, he will probably sell that on approval as well. Just my guess.
I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval. Maybe after a few deals with someone I would trust them to do sight unseen business but to ask a new customer to buy sight unseen is absurd!!!
I am sure that you have good taste and experience in early gold but...offering a coin only sight unseen is fishy.
John >>
I don't need to take risks on people who have no established credit John.
You didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it. Whatever the case may be, if you think it's "fishy" for an established dealer such as myself to not send you money on approval, then obviously you're not a potential customer for me and I'm not a potential source for you. It's really as simple as that.
Any experienced business person understands this rule.
I do have established credit with many other dealers that would vouch for me, as well as being an NGC dealer and ANA Life member.
An investor I am sure would have no problem buying an early gold piece sight unseen, but for a collector who you dont know their tastes etc, it is almost unheard of to buy sight unseen as a first transaction from a dealer...
Perhaps you service more investors than collectors? You certainly make it known that you think coins are an excellent investment source and advocate putting as much as 25% of ones portfolio in numismatics...
Dont get all bent out of shape. I am trying to understand your motivations as hopefully you can understand mine...
<< <i>I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval.
John,
My guess is that Tom's early gold business is so brisk that he does not need to sell coins on approval as another buyer will step in buy the coins in question sight-unseen. I suspect that he also has some inventory that he will gladly sell on approval. I do not have any problem with it. When the early gold market softens, he will prbably sell that on approval as well. Just my guess. >>
It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. It's my money. As I mentioned, after a couple of deals, if the the customer and I bond and if everything seems ok, then approvals happen.
But even if Bill Gates called and wanted a coin on approval on the first deal, I would decline it.
And yes, business is steady and established. So I don't need to take gambles on people I don't know.
There's a certain large company that has the same rule. After that, they will send you anything you "think" you want. Hence the want list. In fact,the company manual states to NOT try to see with the customers eyes, to just ship and since the shipping costs are paid for by the customer, and since a certain percentage of even ugly coins will "stick", then send send send.
I won't mention names cause I'll get sued. But that's a reality.
If I get ripped off on a 10 or 15,000 coin, it hurts. It's not a write off, it hurts. So a customer has to establish credibility with me and not the other way around. I've been in this business for a long time. How long is the customer around? 5 years? 10 years?
Again, it's on a case by case basis after the first couple of paid deals.
It's not as easy a business as some people think it is. Not in the real world anyway. I have more than 2 dozen buyers of early material and this makes it a fine living to earn., but it's far from easy.
Oh, and when the early gold market softens and IF my customers want to sell into a soft market, they will most likely go to auction and I'll handle that. But most won't. Most will hold on and as far as putting money in other areas, most will do that too. We're already looking at other areas.
I do have established credit with many other dealers that would vouch for me, as well as being an NGC dealer and ANA Life member.
An investor I am sure would have no problem buying an early gold piece sight unseen, but for a collector who you dont know their tastes etc, it is almost unheard of to buy sight unseen as a first transaction from a dealer...
Perhaps you service more investors than collectors? You certainly make it known that you think coins are an excellent investment source and advocate putting as much as 25% of ones portfolio in numismatics...
Dont get all bent out of shape. I am trying to understand your motivations as hopefully you can understand mine...
John >>
I'm not bent out of shape. And you're not a dealer. You're a part timer. When you can say that you earn your living day after day, year after year trading coins, then you're a dealer. Have you done that? Do you do that?
Most of my customers are collectors. Several are investors. Do you understand the differences?
I just love coins and as far as I am concerned I am a dealer. Still learning, but a dealer. I dont need to fall into your definition of dealer to be one.
Just because a guy is starting out doesnt mean he doesnt know anything. Do you know more than me about coins? Yes. Without a doubt.
BFD...
I am a Naval officer first and foremost. That is my "job". But my passion is coins. I am sure yours is too. Unlike you though, I dont freaking toot my own horn in every thread I post to, about what I have sold, and what I have brokered for clients.
Get off your high horse Tom. You might be the coolest guy you know... but I'd be willing to bet that most disagree...
I just love coins and as far as I am concerned I am a dealer. Still learning, but a dealer. I dont need to fall into your definition of dealer to be one.
Just because a guy is starting out doesnt mean he doesnt know anything. Do you know more than me about coins? Yes. Without a doubt.
BFD...
I am a Naval officer first and foremost. That is my "job". But my passion is coins. I am sure yours is too. Unlike you though, I dont freaking toot my own horn in every thread I post to, about what I have sold, and what I have brokered for clients.
Get off your high horse Tom. You might be the coolest guy you know... but I'd be willing to bet that most disagree...
John >>
John, good luck in the Navy. Really. And it's great that you like coins. I hope you keep on collecting them.
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."
If it were me, i'd be using the 180mm lens and the 2x teleconverter. Then i'd get back even further and crop the center out of the image. It's a good example of the sort of illumination the ML-24 ring light can give. The subject is lit very well and the background illumination is balanced nicely. You hardly notice the lighting because it is done well. But this is photo geek talk.
These hornets snapped to attention and became alert due to the camera's autofocus noise!! If the original photograher was using the new mark II macro lens, I can understand why. It has an ultrasonic motor and I bet these hornets hear ultrasound.
I really like the coin in this thread. I have really been looking for one. Not sure i can open my wallet that wide at this time. I saw where quite a few did not sale at the ANA Heritage sale. I would not send anyone a coin on approval that cost more than 50 bucks. I am a tightwad. Just wondering is there any recourse if a approval coin is not returned or paid for? How much does it cost for Guido to travel?
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I never did get my 1799 eagle, but I "settled" for an even more scarce 1799 half eagle. This has satisfied my itch for 18th century gold, and I have moved on.
<< <i>jeez, can I go back in time and just get one at those 2003-2004 prices? >>
Ha! Think that makes you feel sick? If I told you about half the coins I sold ( 1795 9 Leaf Eagle in Choice BU for example at 90K ) you'd wonder why I'm not in intensive care
What a baaaaad investment these early coins have been eh?
K6AZ
Posts: 9,295 ✭
Comments
BTW, I thought it interesting that just about every 1799 Eagle I saw was slabbed by NGC. One was raw.
Yes, I said "retailed". I have a customer base which is very specific and they also know and trust me enough to buy the coin when I say "it's a nice one" without having to see it on approval etc etc etc. I had one guy offer me sight unseen "on approval" for a 1797LE in PCGS 55 a few months ago.
I 'tried" to explain to him that nobody needs his sight unseen "on approval" offers, and that the coin would be sold in a day. He was one of those guys who just didn't believe no matter what you told him ( it's daytime at 12 noon Thad). The coin was sold while he played email with me. I've since crossed his name out of my book.
I reluctantly sold a few pieces ( 1799 in 58 and an 1801 in 61) last week in the wholesale channels ( cash flow). I see what appears to be the 58 and the 61 listed on someones website now for..........are you ready for this................
here it comes..................
are you ready?......................
$21,500.00!( 1799), and $27,000 for the 01 ( I sold this coin for 16 grand)
I am sorry but that's just tooooooooo high! Will the market prove me wrong? Maybe, but I will tell you this, I wouldn't want to be laft without a chair when the music stops on this one.
Develop a relationship with someone who knows early material. Don't go blapping your mouth around to 10 ( or more) different dealers saying "I'm looking, I want, I would like, let me know, etc etc etc. You are only stepping on your own private parts by doing so. You are making it appear that there are many more buyers than there are and bids jump because of that. Hence the illusion takes on it's own sort of reality. No matter how much you think you know, you're not a dealer and you don't know what you think you do. Relax. Build a relationship with one or two people who are knowlegeable and trustworthy and you will eventually get what you want and be happy happy.
What's happened to eagles is starting to happen in..............
Shhhhhh spies are listening!
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
It's one of the coins that I'd like to add to my Type Collection some day -- but probably in AU-58
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
half eagles.
Beautiful coin.
There are some very nice 61s that may have been considered 58s in a previous area that are quite lovely. Perhaps weak strike/luster breaks/rub/marks would otherwise render them AU, but superior overall eye appeal bumps them up to 61. I have a couple that fit this description.
Russ, NCNE
Ohbaby, please PM me a list of your $3's for sale. I am especially interested in the branch mint issues, Civil War dates, and low mintage issues of the late 70's and early 80's, just like everybody else.
<< <i>I bought that coin in 1996 from a dealer raw as an AU. It would make you all sick if I told you what I paid for it. >>
Lemme guess... $2000?
<< <i>I don't want that stinky MS61.
Russ, NCNE >>
Excluding Russ, since it's not an AH Eagle.
a 1799 eagle in 61 is VERY nice.
a chain cent in smooth planchet Fine is very nice.
for AH Kennedies, yes, a 61 is a pretty crappy coin, though Russ has a pop-1 PR60 he's fond of..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>What's happened to eagles is starting to happen in..............
half eagles. >>
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I bought that coin in 1996 from a dealer raw as an AU. It would make you all sick if I told you what I paid for it. >>
$4500-5200.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Close, $3950. He didn't think it would slab due to some very minor hairlines on the right side of the obverse. >>
Nice score
Still have it?
Hehehehe.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval. Maybe after a few deals with someone I would trust them to do sight unseen business but to ask a new customer to buy sight unseen is absurd!!!
I am sure that you have good taste and experience in early gold but...offering a coin only sight unseen is fishy.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
John,
My guess is that Tom's early gold business is so brisk that he does not need to sell coins on approval as another buyer will step in buy the coins in question sight-unseen. I suspect that he also has some inventory that he will gladly sell on approval. I do not have any problem with it. When the early gold market softens, he will probably sell that on approval as well. Just my guess.
<< <i>Tom,
I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval. Maybe after a few deals with someone I would trust them to do sight unseen business but to ask a new customer to buy sight unseen is absurd!!!
I am sure that you have good taste and experience in early gold but...offering a coin only sight unseen is fishy.
John >>
I don't need to take risks on people who have no established credit John.
You didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it. Whatever the case may be, if you think it's "fishy" for an established dealer such as myself to not send you money on approval, then obviously you're not a potential customer for me and I'm not a potential source for you. It's really as simple as that.
Any experienced business person understands this rule.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I do have established credit with many other dealers that would vouch for me, as well as being an NGC dealer and ANA Life member.
An investor I am sure would have no problem buying an early gold piece sight unseen, but for a collector who you dont know their tastes etc, it is almost unheard of to buy sight unseen as a first transaction from a dealer...
Perhaps you service more investors than collectors? You certainly make it known that you think coins are an excellent investment source and advocate putting as much as 25% of ones portfolio in numismatics...
Dont get all bent out of shape. I am trying to understand your motivations as hopefully you can understand mine...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>I still dont see what problems you have with sending coins on approval.
John,
My guess is that Tom's early gold business is so brisk that he does not need to sell coins on approval as another buyer will step in buy the coins in question sight-unseen. I suspect that he also has some inventory that he will gladly sell on approval. I do not have any problem with it. When the early gold market softens, he will prbably sell that on approval as well. Just my guess. >>
It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. It's my money. As I mentioned, after a couple of deals, if the the customer and I bond and if everything seems ok, then approvals happen.
But even if Bill Gates called and wanted a coin on approval on the first deal, I would decline it.
And yes, business is steady and established. So I don't need to take gambles on people I don't know.
There's a certain large company that has the same rule. After that, they will send you anything you "think" you want. Hence the want list. In fact,the company manual states to NOT try to see with the customers eyes, to just ship and since the shipping costs are paid for by the customer, and since a certain percentage of even ugly coins will "stick", then send send send.
I won't mention names cause I'll get sued. But that's a reality.
If I get ripped off on a 10 or 15,000 coin, it hurts. It's not a write off, it hurts. So a customer has to establish credibility with me and not the other way around. I've been in this business for a long time. How long is the customer around? 5 years? 10 years?
Again, it's on a case by case basis after the first couple of paid deals.
It's not as easy a business as some people think it is. Not in the real world anyway. I have more than 2 dozen buyers of early material and this makes it a fine living to earn., but it's far from easy.
Oh, and when the early gold market softens and IF my customers want to sell into a soft market, they will most likely go to auction and I'll handle that. But most won't. Most will hold on and as far as putting money in other areas, most will do that too. We're already looking at other areas.
Shhhh, spies are listening!
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Tom,
I do have established credit with many other dealers that would vouch for me, as well as being an NGC dealer and ANA Life member.
An investor I am sure would have no problem buying an early gold piece sight unseen, but for a collector who you dont know their tastes etc, it is almost unheard of to buy sight unseen as a first transaction from a dealer...
Perhaps you service more investors than collectors? You certainly make it known that you think coins are an excellent investment source and advocate putting as much as 25% of ones portfolio in numismatics...
Dont get all bent out of shape. I am trying to understand your motivations as hopefully you can understand mine...
John >>
I'm not bent out of shape. And you're not a dealer. You're a part timer. When you can say that you earn your living day after day, year after year trading coins, then you're a dealer. Have you done that? Do you do that?
Most of my customers are collectors. Several are investors. Do you understand the differences?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Your last post just about sums it up...
You are an elitist and an ego maniac.
I just love coins and as far as I am concerned I am a dealer. Still learning, but a dealer. I dont need to fall into your definition of dealer to be one.
Just because a guy is starting out doesnt mean he doesnt know anything. Do you know more than me about coins? Yes. Without a doubt.
BFD...
I am a Naval officer first and foremost. That is my "job". But my passion is coins. I am sure yours is too. Unlike you though, I dont freaking toot my own horn in every thread I post to, about what I have sold, and what I have brokered for clients.
Get off your high horse Tom. You might be the coolest guy you know... but I'd be willing to bet that most disagree...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>Tom,
Your last post just about sums it up...
You are an elitist and an ego maniac.
I just love coins and as far as I am concerned I am a dealer. Still learning, but a dealer. I dont need to fall into your definition of dealer to be one.
Just because a guy is starting out doesnt mean he doesnt know anything. Do you know more than me about coins? Yes. Without a doubt.
BFD...
I am a Naval officer first and foremost. That is my "job". But my passion is coins. I am sure yours is too. Unlike you though, I dont freaking toot my own horn in every thread I post to, about what I have sold, and what I have brokered for clients.
Get off your high horse Tom. You might be the coolest guy you know... but I'd be willing to bet that most disagree...
John >>
John, good luck in the Navy. Really. And it's great that you like coins. I hope you keep on collecting them.
This type of discusion isn't worth my time.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
By the way, your website "page can't be displayed" is down.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Let's just avoid each other...
I am sure that you dont need my small amount of business anyway.
I am just a small fish.
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>What's this, a flame throwing session and I'm not involved? How can this be? >>
Even the devil gets a day off.
<< <i>
<< <i>What's this, a flame throwing session and I'm not involved? How can this be? >>
Even the devil gets a day off.
You see my new girlfriend?
<< <i>You see my new girlfriend? >>
Which one?
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>
I'll see your
And raise you two
<< <i>
Those wasps are amazing, what lens was used to capture those?
This was taken with Canon gear...a 100mm lens.
Flickr
If it were me, i'd be using the 180mm lens and the 2x teleconverter. Then i'd get back even further and crop the center out of the image. It's a good example of the sort of illumination the ML-24 ring light can give. The subject is lit very well and the background illumination is balanced nicely. You hardly notice the lighting because it is done well. But this is photo geek talk.
These hornets snapped to attention and became alert due to the camera's autofocus noise!! If the original photograher was using the new mark II macro lens, I can understand why. It has an ultrasonic motor and I bet these hornets hear ultrasound.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>jeez, can I go back in time and just get one at those 2003-2004 prices? >>
Ha! Think that makes you feel sick? If I told you about half the coins I sold ( 1795 9 Leaf Eagle in Choice BU for example at 90K ) you'd wonder why I'm not in intensive care
What a baaaaad investment these early coins have been eh?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Congrats on a super sweet addition to your collection!