I am the dirtbag who sold the 1885-CC dollar to Stuart, completely forgetting that Dave Wang wanted to buy it from me last January when I didn't want to part with it. I am now getting rid of all of my Morgans, but that one was clearly the nicest. Considering I sold Dave his very first 1879-S Rev. '78 dollar, I think he should not kill me.
I wasted approximately $85.00 on grading fees and shipping sending that 1885-CC and one other ANACS Morgan to PCGS for crossover, whereupon I suspect that they spent a total of 5 nanoseconds looking at them, didn't cross either one, and mailed them back to me. Some of you may remember the angry thread that I posted after receiving that delightful news from PCGS. I am still burned up about it 3 months later.
The 1885-CC didn't cross at PCGS because it has 5 or 6 hairlines right across the cheek which are just about impossible to photograph. I have been collecting DMPL's for quite a while, and IMO, the mirrors are deeper than most PCGS DMPL's. I do have this to say, however: it has beautiful toning, a pronounced cameo effect, and surfaces that are as bagmark-free as anyone could expect. The majority of PCGS 64 DMPL dollars would have many tiny contact marks in the fields and on the cheek, which apparently is less serious than 5 barely visible hairlines. Try to tell that to PCGS, though.
Ron: Thanks for posting to this thread, and most of all I'd like to say a public "Thank You" to you for aloowing me the privilege to be the new caretaker of this really beautiful and historic 1885-CC Morgan.
As we discussed I plan to keep the coin as the centerpiece of my Morgan Dollar collection, and it means a great deal to me and gives me a great sense of pride to be its new owner.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<<< I do have this to say, however: it has beautiful toning, a pronounced cameo effect, and surfaces that are as bagmark-free as anyone could expect. >>>
IMO, PCGS does not like original toned DMPL's regardless of how deep the mirrors are underneath the toning, and is re;uctant to grade any toned piece a DMPL. I believe PCGS much prefers that artificially flashy white 'just dipped out' look on DMPL Morgans. It is actually quite difficult to find any DMPL designated Morgans in PCGS holders that haven't been repeatedly dipped as they pass from owner to owner and get dipped, redipped, cracked out, and resubmitted. After many years and seeing and owning hundreds of DMPL Morgans, I would estimate that no less than 85-90% of ALL PCGS DMPL Morgans have been dipped at leat once or twice, and some have been dipped out so many times, the mirrors are now much less pronounced and have frosty areas where the dipping solution has eaten away and destroyed the fragile mirror surfaces. This is especially true on coins that were only marginal DMPL's to begin with.
It's important to note that dipping a DMPL Morgan can have very negative effects on the coin over time, and the more it's dipped, the worse the effect. While the coin may look great (like a modern proof) immediatly after it's initially dipped, the coin may turn bad some time later, with the mirrors losing some of their reflectivity and appearing either frosty or foggy in some areas of the fields. This negative dipping effect is most pronounced on many of the dipped out DMPL's that reside in the older green tag PCGS holders, where the coins are now not even DMPL's anymore at this point, and have a washed out look to them with the fields appearing a combination of reflective and frosty.
JRocco: I used a large 4 light "Testrite" lighted copy stand with GE "Reveal" light bulbs similar to the ones that several other forum mebers use. Testrite Copy Stands
Gemini & BoyHowdy: Thanks for the kind words about one of my new favorite coins
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
By the photoes, I'd say that you coin is undergraded, Stewart. I've seen MS-65 coins that did not look as nice as that piece!
Congrats!
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
Comments
I am the dirtbag who sold the 1885-CC dollar to Stuart, completely forgetting that Dave Wang wanted to buy it from me last January when I didn't want to part with it. I am now getting rid of all of my Morgans, but that one was clearly the nicest. Considering I sold Dave his very first 1879-S Rev. '78 dollar, I think he should not kill me.
I wasted approximately $85.00 on grading fees and shipping sending that 1885-CC and one other ANACS Morgan to PCGS for crossover, whereupon I suspect that they spent a total of 5 nanoseconds looking at them, didn't cross either one, and mailed them back to me. Some of you may remember the angry thread that I posted after receiving that delightful news from PCGS. I am still burned up about it 3 months later.
The 1885-CC didn't cross at PCGS because it has 5 or 6 hairlines right across the cheek which are just about impossible to photograph. I have been collecting DMPL's for quite a while, and IMO, the mirrors are deeper than most PCGS DMPL's. I do have this to say, however: it has beautiful toning, a pronounced cameo effect, and surfaces that are as bagmark-free as anyone could expect. The majority of PCGS 64 DMPL dollars would have many tiny contact marks in the fields and on the cheek, which apparently is less serious than 5 barely visible hairlines. Try to tell that to PCGS, though.
As we discussed I plan to keep the coin as the centerpiece of my Morgan Dollar collection, and it means a great deal to me and gives me a great sense of pride to be its new owner.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Tom
IMO, PCGS does not like original toned DMPL's regardless of how deep the mirrors are underneath the toning, and is re;uctant to grade any toned piece a DMPL. I believe PCGS much prefers that artificially flashy white 'just dipped out' look on DMPL Morgans. It is actually quite difficult to find any DMPL designated Morgans in PCGS holders that haven't been repeatedly dipped as they pass from owner to owner and get dipped, redipped, cracked out, and resubmitted. After many years and seeing and owning hundreds of DMPL Morgans, I would estimate that no less than 85-90% of ALL PCGS DMPL Morgans have been dipped at leat once or twice, and some have been dipped out so many times, the mirrors are now much less pronounced and have frosty areas where the dipping solution has eaten away and destroyed the fragile mirror surfaces. This is especially true on coins that were only marginal DMPL's to begin with.
It's important to note that dipping a DMPL Morgan can have very negative effects on the coin over time, and the more it's dipped, the worse the effect. While the coin may look great (like a modern proof) immediatly after it's initially dipped, the coin may turn bad some time later, with the mirrors losing some of their reflectivity and appearing either frosty or foggy in some areas of the fields. This negative dipping effect is most pronounced on many of the dipped out DMPL's that reside in the older green tag PCGS holders, where the coins are now not even DMPL's anymore at this point, and have a washed out look to them with the fields appearing a combination of reflective and frosty.
WOW! Just saw this thread. What a beauty of an 85-CC. I wish I were a nice guy so that Ron would offer nice coins to me! Congrats!
Dennis
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Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
It is a very nice example of what CC Morgans were made to look like.
Seth
That one is pretty enough to make me rethink my self-imposed
embargo on Morgans!
Steve
Gemini & BoyHowdy: Thanks for the kind words about one of my new favorite coins
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Seth: Guilty as charged -- I really do love the 1885-CC
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Congrats!
From your mouth to the PCGS graders' ears
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins