Auction House Sent Me Coins By Mistake - Must I Return Them?
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
A major auction house sent me several thousand dollars worth of coins that somebody else won, by mistake. Of course I am going to return them, but am I legally obligated to do so?
0
Comments
This scenario doesn't fit as it was clearly an error.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Tom
Yes, if the auction house requests you return them. If they don't ask, and you don't tell, however, no one would know to ask you to return them.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
i dont believe you have a legal obligation to return them.
un-solicited mail is just that.
UPS or FEDEX perhaps.
morally ? yes sir.
Proof
<< <i>check the postal laws, if you recieved them via us mail,
i dont believe you have a legal obligation to return them. >>
Wrong. Read the other posts in this thread.
Russ, NCNE
Michael
As others have posted, this business about being able to keep thousands of dollars worth of coins you didn't pay for because a company made a mistake is nonsense. This only applies to companies trying to sell you something by sending the item and demanding payment.
One more thing, anyone who jumps into this thread and tries to come up with reasons to keep these coins and not pay for them is someone I don't want to do business with.
But, yes, I believe they should go back, but not until we see what ya had.
its a moral question anyway.
And we do want to see the merch !
<< <i>One more thing, anyone who jumps into this thread and tries to come up with reasons to keep these coins and not pay for them is someone I don't want to do business with. >>
pay or return it ? pound sand, i keep it and you have no recourse
shipping mistake ? court battle !
moral ?,yeah i return it,but i aint eatin the shipping !
Proof
Why then you will go to jail. The same applies to receipt of merchandise by error.
2- The second issue is the question of moral responsibility. One must do what is right and ethical.
3- The third issue is the concern that the person who messed up the mailing, may well lose their job, if the
merchandise is not returned. This is the same as the checker in a store giving you too much money in change.
If their register comes up short, then they will be written up. Several writups and they will be fired. In the case of
coins worth several thousand dollars, you can bet your bottom dollar there will be blood on the snow.
Camelot
<< <i>Scotsman coins sent me 3 each 2001-W gold 1 ounce eagles graded NGC MS69 for no reason. I called to return them and they did not even know they had been sent to me.
Boy oh boy that would make me feel real confident in consigning money to these clowns.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
HA! Not only that, they should comp you something for being honest. If it were me, I'd DEMAND it. JMHO
You want your coins, I want something in return....CASE CLOSED.
Yes, there was. The unsolicited merchandise issue came up then, too -- those rules simply do not apply in this or any similar case. It's annoying to constantly debunk the same nonsense.
Unsolicted Merchandise
I applaud
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
<< <i>Obviously, do the right thing....return the coins.....to the wrong auction house
Yup and when they call, tell them you don't know anything about it
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
A guy bought 2 proof sets from me on e-bay & paid for them in a timely fashion.
I shipped them in a timely fashion. Shipped May 12.
Guess what showed up in the PO Box yesterday...the 2 proof sets, which were returned by the post office as unclaimed. Now the 30 days for refund have passed and the guy's e-mail doesn't work.
What do you do?
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Last year, I won an 1804 Plain 4 Stemless 1/2 Cent in NGC 4 RB at a major auction. Auction rules stated that in case of two bids being the same amount, the first bidder gets the coin. Mine was the first bid (I was in Brasil, so bid via the internet).
The lot went to a floor bidder who exactly matched my bid. When I found out that I had the high bid but did not win the coin, I started sending E-Mails to the auction house. What happened was that they screwed up, and did not honor my bid. The floor bidder paid for the coin, left, and when notified that it was not his coin & he should return it (and get his $ back), he told them to stick it. He was a cara de pau asqueroso.
The auction house apologized & sent me a book of my choice for their mistake & my related aggravation. You wouldn't want this to happen to you; please return the coins.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
So I'm glad to hear you're returning them.
You could try sending him a postcard explaining what happened. Maybe he's had some kind of emergency that's kept him from getting his mail
free samples
from a charity
from someone you have an agreement with.
I guess it would all hinge on how you argue "have an agreement with". I guess I have an agreement with several of
the big auction houses. I would say I have an agreement for them to send me stuff I ask for or bid on. Their rules may
state something different.
In any case I would probably charge them for my time if I was in a bad mood (which I am in now). I can't be bothered to
go to the post office every time someone screws up.
-KHayse
<< <i>Guess what showed up in the PO Box yesterday...the 2 proof sets, which were returned by the post office as unclaimed. Now the 30 days for refund have passed and the guy's e-mail doesn't work. >>
Get the buyers contact information from Ebay and phone him. If the phone number doesn't work go on with your lifeand wait for him to contact you at which time you can either send him the sets or a refund.
One other question was his address a street address or a PO Box? If it was a street address the Post office may not have left messages, or maybe he can't get to the Post Office (I know I usually can't and have had stuff sent back for that reason.) So send him a letter letting him know what happened and ask him what he wants you to do.
First: This is NOT unsolicited mail. You solicit every single piece of mail you receive from the auction house by registering for the auction. In your case you just happened to receive the wrong item.
Second: The coin(s) are legally owned by someone else who does have a rightful claim to them be it either an individual or the auction house itself. The only way you would be legally allowed to keep them is by permission. Someone trying to keep something like this could also face Federal scrutiny because it WAS delivered by mail.
Third: Here's the question that should be asked. Whose insurance has to pay the claim if the item is lost or stolen while in your possession?
That's the worrisome part. Safe guarding it until you get it back in the mail and just the damn inconvience of it all. I hope it all works out ok.
Unrelated comments about Scottsman: Scottsman is a old reliable coin business. I have sold to them several times. John Bush is one of the easiest going people to work with when consigning coins. I realize they sent someone 4 Silver Eagles by mistake. And, yep, they screwed that one up.
Jerry
I also double checked my bidder number against the one on the invoice. Not even close. What I am concerend about is that someone might have registered for the auction in my name. There are no safeguards against this - they NEVER check ID when you register for a bidder card.
The way it's setup right now, someone could register under a totally phony name, bid up $1m worth of stuff, and walk out of the auction room, never to be seen again. Quite honestly I'm surprised this hasn't ever happened. I know for stuff like the 1933 $20, everyone was pre-registered and investigated before the sale, so there would be no hassles like this.
By the way, as far as returning these coins, there is also my own self interest here - I like the auction house a lot and have a good relationship with them. I don't want to mess that up.
you should return them but... you could sorta hint at a reward... perhaps they will allow to keep a few coins of your choice for being honest.
Spanky
UncleWig,
Wouldn't worry me a bit.
-KHayse
>ring ring
>Hello?
>Yes, Mr. Smith?
>Yes...
>I found your wallet the other day. I think you must have left it on the counter at the bank. I found your ID inside and looked up your number in the phone book...did you lose your wallet?
>Yes, I did! My credit cards are in there!! I was so worried that some theif found it.
>Well, it's your lucky day. And I'm a super honest guy. Now, I noticed you have $200 in it, can I keep $50 since I'm such a super honest guy???
>uh...well...
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
<< <i> I am amazed by all the people suggesting you ask for some kind of reward. >>
I also agree. "Suggesting" you receive a reward is "suggesting" that you're holding the coins for ransom.
<< <i>This strikes a nerve. Please call the auction house; they will reimburse shipping, postage, etc. And if they have some class, will send you a token of their appreciation as well.
Last year, I won an 1804 Plain 4 Stemless 1/2 Cent in NGC 4 RB at a major auction. Auction rules stated that in case of two bids being the same amount, the first bidder gets the coin. Mine was the first bid (I was in Brasil, so bid via the internet).
The lot went to a floor bidder who exactly matched my bid. When I found out that I had the high bid but did not win the coin, I started sending E-Mails to the auction house. What happened was that they screwed up, and did not honor my bid. The floor bidder paid for the coin, left, and when notified that it was not his coin & he should return it (and get his $ back), he told them to stick it. He was a cara de pau asqueroso.
The auction house apologized & sent me a book of my choice for their mistake & my related aggravation. You wouldn't want this to happen to you; please return the coins. >>
The same thing happened to me ....I had an internet bid in for $1900 for a coin.... I watched it on line and it sold for $1900 so I thought I won it.....When I contacted the auction house the next day they said that I was not the winning bidder... I explained to them that I had the earlier bid of $1900 and I should have won the coin......They said there was a mix up and they didn't see my bid and awarded the coin to the floor bidder........what a bunch of cr*p.......I'll never deal with that auction house again.......and I told them so......seems it fell on deaf ears..........
Mike
idocoins
In the coin biz, one's word is very important. I have had lots shipped to me for my preview worth over $100K by several auction houses. Similarly, I have sent coins on memo to dealers based on their word that if they sell them, I get paid. Word spreads fast if trust is broken.
I would assume that if the coins sent to you were worth several thousand dollars, they were sent registered mail and thus a signature was required to release them from the Postal Service.
Not being an attorney I don't know if you legally have to return them. Probably yes. Adrian??