Have you transcended the slab, grasshopper????---this is a Dorkkarl exempt thread!!
keets
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Have you risen above the insert and shed all bias?? In short, have you learned to grade the series or types of coins that you chase to the point where the holder becomes unimportant and the coin is the real focal point??
I recall a time several years ago when a member posted that he would look at holdered coins seemingly oblivious to the insert and the surrounding plastic, make an assessment as to grade and value and then begin his dicker with the seller. At that time it sounded absurd to me because, of course, the insert ruled supreme and declared grade as well as value with only the sellers lips needed to verify what the grading service had established!! I know and understand differently today and follow a somewhat similar pattern as that prophetic Forum Guru explained.
For my own part, I can answer the question for many here, that being this---bias still controls much of the decision making process when looking at holdered coins. I'll admit to a remaining slight twinge myself, but it is lessening as I learn and grow in the hobby and in the areas I choose to explore. The tendency is that certain company holders allow a bit more relaxation when the process of determination starts and some are autimatically viewed as raw coins. I still make an occasional judgement error, probably a result of wishful thinking and the gambler that remains!!
But how about you, grasshopper?? Have you been able to snatch that pebble from the master's hand?? Do you trust yourself and your knowledge or are you still guided by bias, misconception, the opinions of others and that insert under the plastic??
Al H.
I recall a time several years ago when a member posted that he would look at holdered coins seemingly oblivious to the insert and the surrounding plastic, make an assessment as to grade and value and then begin his dicker with the seller. At that time it sounded absurd to me because, of course, the insert ruled supreme and declared grade as well as value with only the sellers lips needed to verify what the grading service had established!! I know and understand differently today and follow a somewhat similar pattern as that prophetic Forum Guru explained.
For my own part, I can answer the question for many here, that being this---bias still controls much of the decision making process when looking at holdered coins. I'll admit to a remaining slight twinge myself, but it is lessening as I learn and grow in the hobby and in the areas I choose to explore. The tendency is that certain company holders allow a bit more relaxation when the process of determination starts and some are autimatically viewed as raw coins. I still make an occasional judgement error, probably a result of wishful thinking and the gambler that remains!!
But how about you, grasshopper?? Have you been able to snatch that pebble from the master's hand?? Do you trust yourself and your knowledge or are you still guided by bias, misconception, the opinions of others and that insert under the plastic??
Al H.
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I'm not saying that my grading is perfect by no means, but at least with this series I feel pretty confident and the slab doesn't play into the equation at this point.
And I'm also getting good at telling the difference between the NGC grades and the PCGS grades. PCGS is a little more tight when grading the higher common dates.
All it takes is experience and enough time to actually see, in hand, numerous coins and it starts to fall into place, IMHO.
Michael
the board members here.
Collecting Morgans in Any Grade
42/92
hey Neil
which question are you questioning??
1. Have you transcended the slab, grasshopper????
2. Have you risen above the insert and shed all bias??
3. In short, have you learned to grade the series or types of coins that you chase to the point where the holder becomes unimportant and the coin is the real focal point??
4. Do you trust yourself and your knowledge or are you still guided by bias, misconception, the opinions of others and that insert under the plastic??
i can think of none i would answer "no" too and be content.
al h.
<< <i>Have you transcended the slab, grasshopper????---this is a Dorkkarl exempt thread!! >>
wrong-o bongo-o!
K S
For me, the bulk of my enjoyment of coins does come from knowledge, grading ability, etc. Getting ripped off left and right, and making poor decisions (and thus acquiring low quality coins) does not lend itself to any significant amount of enjoyment for me.
BTW, I haven't transcended the slab thingee yet, but I'm getting closer with proof franklins and morgans. At least now I've gotten to the point when I feel comfortable gambling on certain holders, etc, and not because I'm trying to land a steal. Perhaps this is a journey and not a destination??
<< <i>... but if someone's goal is to simply enjoy coins then they could legitimately be happy and content without transcending the slab, learning the series nuances, and minding the biases of the holder. >>
Sure. But learning the nuances of the series is probably automatic with time and experience to the collector of a series.
I have to say, in the series I'm comfortable (Buffalo nickels and Lincoln cents), I'll buy the coin irregardless of the stated grade. If I think the coin should grade higher than what is stated on the slab, all the better for me.
But I should add that yes, I have snagged good coins from third tier holders.
<< <i>Mainly because enjoyment of coins is not dependent upon being able to grade, learning about the series, etc.
For me, the bulk of my enjoyment of coins does come from knowledge, grading ability, etc. Getting ripped off left and right, and making poor decisions (and thus acquiring low quality coins) does not lend itself to any significant amount of enjoyment for me.
BTW, I haven't transcended the slab thingee yet, but I'm getting closer with proof franklins and morgans. At least now I've gotten to the point when I feel comfortable gambling on certain holders, etc, and not because I'm trying to land a steal. Perhaps this is a journey and not a destination??
Exactly, and there are many sights to see and things to learn on any of the roads.
I do have some holder phobias, however. There is one brand whose owners are now abusing people with lawsuits. Their product looks about as attractive as the small pox virus to me.
That's really weird!!!
al h.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Personally NO !
There are basically two types of people that collect, and post here, ones interested in filling hloes in books with low priced coins as a hobby, with little interest in the investment value, and people building sets of high quality coins as a serious collection and investment for the future. There are those that also buy raw coins as gamblers hoping to find treasures that will “ Slab” and I wish them the best of luck.
As I have learned the hard way over the past year only a fool, or a gambler, buys a coin valued at over $250 that is not certified by the top two companies.
To the best of my knowledge NO larger dealer or auction house publishes any collector buying material advising their clients to by “RARE COINS” in a raw state. This is not to say they don't sell some of these.
My current attitude toward commercially rare, or very rare coins, is that if the coin is for sale raw there is something wrong with it, and it has most likely already been submitted and body bagged.
Do I check certified coins to see if the graders may have made an error, YES, but after doing the proper homework, then I am a possible buyer if and only if the coin is certified by PCGS or NGC.
i happened across an ad in a major coin related publication which offered some free pamphlets advising about some common mistakes made by collectors/speculators/investors, suggestions for areas which this dealer felt were "safe" and of course, the accompanying monthly newsletter. hey, it was all free, what did i have to lose?? in retrospect, with regard to the advances in the past 5-7 years, had i heeded the advice contained in the freebies to a greater extent i would be smiling much broader today!!!
one of the first suggestions they give is to stick with PCGS/NGC certified coins until you become proficient at grading, several years in the least. while they stop short of advising raw coins, the gist of their pamphlet for me is to avoid many common mistakes while learning about areas of interest, grading being the primary area. if nothing else, it gives us a comparative view of what a grade is based on and also the variances within a specific grade. look at many, many coins but in the beginning, purchase only PCGS/NGC holdered coins----while avoiding all other holders----or risk losing your shirt due to inexperienced poor judgement. since i employed that strategy it has worked well for me.
oh yeah. hey gary??? when i saw you in Marietta you seemed to have a handle on Washingtons. they've always been hard for me to grade so i finally gave up. what i see as MS65-66 has always come back as AU58-MS64.
al h.
I do agree that if you are going to spend serious money (everybody's threshold is different), that you should buy certified PCGS or NGS or ANACS or even SEGS, just to be sure. But, the theory that all the good coins are already slabbed, I think, is wrong. Coins have this funny way of going in and out of slabs . . .
Beyond that, slabs are just holders for me, and as you know, I'll crackem out pretty often for album sets.
I don't buy certified coins that in my opinion aren't worth as much out of the holder as in, such as MS67 and up coins, because I prefer 100 year and older coins in mid to high circulated grades and early 20th century coins in low to mid MS grades. Also starting to dabble in 200+ year old US coins in grades like Good and Very good.
So yes, I think I've transcended the slab in the sense you seem to mean it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I am still learning on the other series that I collect - Roosies - but I am also getting much better on those as well.
So yes, I believe that I have transcended the slab.
I would also like to relate a little story that happened to me at the last show I was at. I had a couple of slabbed buffalos (duplicates) that I offered in trade to a dealer. He took the slabs, whipped out his glass and very closely examined the coins (paying no attention what so ever to the slabs that the coins were in). He then decided on a price based on his examination of the coins (which I might add was a very reasonable offer on the coins) and we consumated the deal. I was very impressed by this and the dealer will get more of my business because he was really into the coins and not into the number on the plastic!
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
"Goldsaint: do not look down on the lowly collector who fills holes in Danscos"
Please don’t think that I was doing that, in fact I own my share of Dansco albums that I keep up with each year just for fun.
Please keep in mind I said coins over $250 each.
Here is my personal story to go with my reason for never buying expensive coins not slabbed. Last year as I got back into collecting after over two decades, I was anxious to complete, the best I could, my Bust half set. I added 60 coins to that set most of which were raw but bought from the “ best” dealers in the country with expertise in that area. After talking to NGC for weeks, and even getting them to set up a Bust halve registry, I hand delivered a nearly complete raw set to them , along with other coins. Of the 60+ raw Bust halves, 27 were body bagged. In my opinion when buying I thought that 9 might be bagged.
Now keep in mind I am a 30 year collector and was a dealer for 3 years in the late 70’s. Why these were bagged , or if they were unreasonably bagged is not the issue. That fact is that I spent over $6,000 for these coins, they cannot be returned, and since I do not know for sure if the dealers that sold them to me knew they would be bagged I will not start an argument or mention their names to others. These coins would sell for what I paid I am not going to lose money, but as other high grade, hard to find, slabbed Bust coins move up in value these will not, so in my opinion I got burned some. If I had the chance to do this over buying slabs I would no doubt pay more, but I cannot even find many of these coins in today’s market. So this is my lesson, and I will not be making that mistake again as I build other sets.
09/07/2006