<< <i>I post this thread about my not having sympathies for people who get burned by buying the holder and not the coin (and isn’t that really what this is about?) and the first person to respond is K6something or other. The comment is not only totally off thread and insulting but it doesn’t make any sense. >>
Sure it made sense, and it obviously struck a nerve.
The title of this thread is insulting to those who know the market differences between high end PCGS and NGC coins, and you knew it. NGC supergrade coins do not sell for a discount by accident. They sell for a discount because NGC is more liberal with their grading of these coins. The problem is some vestpocket dealers like you buy these coins at the discount, then try to imply that they are equal to their counterparts in PCGS holders, and then try to sell them for the same premium. Then you run up against an informed collector who doesn't buy the speil, then you come here and whine about the PCGS registry.
<< <i> He implies that my motivation for posting this thread is to bolster the value of NGC coins because I’m having a hard time selling them. I respond by telling him that last year I sold an average of $250,000 worth of coins a month, the implication of which is, ‘you buffoon, get your facts straight‘ (if I‘m selling that many coins, I‘m certainly selling a bunch of NGC coins, ergo, I don't need to bolster their value). I didn't just pointlessly start bragging about the amount of my sales for no good reason. I'm an exceedingly humble guy and would never, never, never brag about anything......well, maybe a few things. Anyway.... >>
OK, so you sold $250k worth of coins a month. And the NGC coins probably sold at a discount compared to their PCGS counterparts, which is what has you so angry. See above.
<< <i>You should know that the two people who I directed my irritation at are two people who can’t resist interrupting my threads and taking shots at me. You wouldn't probably have noticed this, but it is true. >>
This is a public forum. If you are going to start a thread with an antagonistic title, expect negative comments. I simply made a statement about the possibility of having a hard time selling a NGC supergrade. You came back with one of your typical personal insults, once again showing all of us what an arrogant, condescending individual you are.
<< <i>We have a harmonious relationship - I don’t like them and they don’t like me. They are basically just gnats to me and I imagine that I will always like to swipe at gnats. >>
For only being a gnat to you, I sure caused you to spend a lot of time taking shots at me. But this is nothing new, and it is why you basically got ran out of RCC for your constant whining and attacks on those who disagreed with your tactics. It is my opinion the only reason you are here is to pump yourself up, and drum up business. You may have a small crowd who think you are some sort of god, but I'm not one of them. As long as you remain here, and start antagonistic threads like this, expect more of the same from me.
"eric the windbag isnt worth your time or effort, believe me."
Pont.......Who is "Eric the Windbag?"
Are you and Frattlaw studying English together?
K6somethingorother said:
"For only being a gnat to you, I sure caused you to spend a lot of time taking shots at me."
Taking shots at you is like shooting skeet - it's entertainment..
"But this is nothing new, and it is why you basically got ran out of RCC for your constant whining and attacks on those who disagreed with your tactics. "
I didn't get run out of RCC. I stopped posting there because it was filled with people who want to know how much their two headed quarter with a seam along the edge is worth. By the way, are you projecting - did you get run out of there?
"It is my opinion the only reason you are here is to pump yourself up, and drum up business."
Pumping myself up. Well, I must admit that slapping you real hard from time to time does make me feel good, so I'll give you that one.
As far as drumming up business, that isn't the reason I post here, however I have sold probably about 10-20 coins over the past 4 or so years to board members, with a combined value of about $30,000 (these are really, really rough estimates) some of which probably don't come from activities here but from my presence on eBay. So, for you that might be enough motivation to spend as much time here posting as I do, however it is no motivation for me. And, by the way...we both have links to our eBay sites, for whatever its's worth, Mr. kettle.
"Coin collecting is so much better for me now that I am out of the Registry game all together."
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.
Again, if being a part of the Registry game has been rewarding for you, great.
"Coin collecting is so much better for me now that I am out of the Registry game all together."
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.
Again, if being a part of the Registry game has been rewarding for you, great. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
i agree!! buy the coin not the holder and start your own private registry set make your own website take your own photos or have a friend do it! just make sure the coins are great and with superlative eye appeal and at the very least matches the grade and designation on the holder if the coin is undergraded well just a plus
i think with many free website hosting if you can get some great photos of your coins you can post them to the site and not be a webmaster to do it!
then put your site on google or share it here on the boards
and if you play the registry game well good for you if it makes you happy GO FOR IT
<<<"Coin collecting is so much better for me now that I am out of the Registry game all together."
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.>>>
Well just because smoeone has a high ranking registry set doesn't mean that they just went out and bought the first POS ms66 coin they came across or the first ms64 listing from 555 items found for 1880 Morgans on eBay. You have to believe that at least smoe thought and discrimination went into the selection.
"start your own private registry set make your own website take your own photos or have a friend do it! just make sure the coins are great and with superlative eye appeal and at the very least matches the grade and designation on the holder if the coin is undergraded well just a plus
i think with many free website hosting if you can get some great photos of your coins you can post them to the site and not be a webmaster to do it!
then put your site on google or share it here on the boards"
"Well just because smoeone has a high ranking registry set doesn't mean that they just went out and bought the first POS ms66 coin they came across or the first ms64 listing from 555 items found for 1880 Morgans on eBay. You have to believe that at least smoe thought and discrimination went into the selection."
I think that there are certainly many people whose primary goals are getting great collections together and who just epiphenomenally register their sets. That's the way it should be. (And buying coins by the numbers is a by product of the biggest problem with technical grading.)
Of course, that isn't the problem that this thread is addressing nor is it the problem that Laura was describing in her website. Thanks for clarifying that though, as many people could read what is in this thread and others and come to the conclusion that the criticism is that the registry sets (ideas) are just bad.
Wow, I'm at a loss for words after reading these posts! I thought Anaconda (Adrian) was highly respected amongst the numismatic realm; moreover, respected by the vast majority of forum members. Where does all this animosity stem from that would cause such childlike petulance amidst these posts? If your sideline agenda has no real bearing on Anaconda's thread, take it up over the phone, pm, email or all the other vast communications devices. This merely causes someone like myself to seek greater numismatic knowledge elsewhere. Just look what you're doing to the newcomer. Wiseup!
What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
I read this thread and the related prior and/or parallel threads with interest. There are very few wimps on this board or at least intimate to this thread. Instead there are lots of strong opinions ; strong vested interests ; a paucity of civility; and a great deal of humor for the observers of this debate. It does point out the powerful nature of lists and money. It also shows the value of the internet where antagonists can insult each other from the safety of their screen instead of dueling in the forest.
First of all, it's a great word because on many occasions it eliminates a large number of words to communicate an idea.
Essentially, in the context in which i used it, it means that the reason a guy puts together a great set of coins is to put together a great set of coins. The registration of that set of coins isn't the objective but it essentially occurs as a result of the accumulation. The intent to register doesn't effect the way the coins are accumulated.
(If you put the accumulation of coins for the purpose of getting a high score in the registry, you probably won't end up with a great collection.)
To address the subject of this thread I agree: I have no sympathy for the crackout and lose folks either. Ya pays yer money and takes yer chances.
The registry is exactly about the number on the slab. The number on the slab represents PCGS's idea of the grade of said coin on the day it was graded. As a purchaser of that coin and a participant in the registry it is up to you to satisfy yourself that the coin is indeed consistent with the grade on the label since as we know grading is subjective. If it doesn't meet your standards then don't buy it.
One thing I've noticed regarding high ranking sets on the PCGS registry........it seems like quite often I see an expensive set being built by an individual and slowly rising in the standings over a period of time.......and then the set FINALLY reaches completion and into the top 5, or top 3, or top #1, or whatever, and then BOOM, the set goes up for sale at auction somewhere. It almost seems from my perspective that the person was more concerned on how high they could get in those silly registry rankings as opposed to the satisfaction of completing and possessing a great high grade set of coins.
I dunno, that's just how I see it......... I couldn't see spending so much time and effort and money building a world class set only to sell it all as soon as I finished it.
Maybe....."the thrill is in the chase and not in the capture."
I think too, that once you've gotton all the easy ones and only the tough ones remain....and that they are already owned by guys who occupy the top spots, it's discouraging to those fellas who are at #5, for example, to continue the pursuit. They become disinterested in the series and easily enough, get excited about another series.
What better way to dump a collection for cash to begin a new pursuit than to sell at auction AND to get your picture into an auction catalog!
Maybe some collect a set of coins, adding, replacing, selling for a registry set, and then, some collect registry sets. It all depends upon what level you choose. Heck, there seem to be coin companies collecting, adding, replacing qualified coin guys all the time recently, and for that matter there are coin companies collecting, adding, replacing other coin companies...
What Dragon is seeing exemplifies how a few collectors are assembling top ranked registry sets for the purppose of flipping at a profit-using the high ranking to hype the set at auction. They will ante up at the end to buy a few top pop holders in order to prop up the perceived value of the entire set and then sell it off before their top pops are diluted by newly made coins. They then go on to do the same thing in a different series. When these guys moan about coins not crossing its because they tried to fill a slot on the cheap rather than paying the price for a PCGS coin--all about money.
They guys who stand to get burned playing the registry game are the guys who buy (rather than make) top pops for top prices and hold them until they get diluted by newly made coins. The more saavy longer term holders will closely monitor undergrades and not go for a top pop until (1) there are a sufficient number at that grade to bring the price into equilibrium or (2) until they have sniffed out the market well enough to have solid comfort level that there is a low risk of dilution--this works only in truly rare dates or dates that have a big gap between the top pop and the undergrades.
The top registry sets are tops only in comparison to other coins of the series in PCGS slabs. Its always possible that there are nicer coins out there in unslabbed collections. I doubt that the 5 1885-o morgans in the top 5 PCGS registry sets represent the 5 nicest coins out of the millions that were minted.
Comments
<< <i>Frattlaw - Most real attorneys don’t misspell simple words, so I think you're still safe >>
Thanks Adrian -- when you remove your head from your A** let me know so we can have a conversation, you pompous moron.
How's Stephanie by the way? Not working there anymore huh? I wonder why?????
Michael
(Sorry to disappoint you Pontiac)
(Sorry to disappoint you Pontiac)
no, sometimes ya have to step down many pegs to reach the sludge.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>
<< <i>Frattlaw - Most real attorneys don’t misspell simple words, so I think you're still safe >>
Thanks Adrian -- when you remove your head from your A** let me know so we can have a conversation, you pompous moron.
How's Stephanie by the way? Not working there anymore huh? I wonder why?????
Michael
(Sorry to disappoint you Pontiac) >>
<< <i>I post this thread about my not having sympathies for people who get burned by buying the holder and not the coin (and isn’t that really what this is about?) and the first person to respond is K6something or other. The comment is not only totally off thread and insulting but it doesn’t make any sense. >>
Sure it made sense, and it obviously struck a nerve.
The title of this thread is insulting to those who know the market differences between high end PCGS and NGC coins, and you knew it. NGC supergrade coins do not sell for a discount by accident. They sell for a discount because NGC is more liberal with their grading of these coins. The problem is some vestpocket dealers like you buy these coins at the discount, then try to imply that they are equal to their counterparts in PCGS holders, and then try to sell them for the same premium. Then you run up against an informed collector who doesn't buy the speil, then you come here and whine about the PCGS registry.
<< <i> He implies that my motivation for posting this thread is to bolster the value of NGC coins because I’m having a hard time selling them. I respond by telling him that last year I sold an average of $250,000 worth of coins a month, the implication of which is, ‘you buffoon, get your facts straight‘ (if I‘m selling that many coins, I‘m certainly selling a bunch of NGC coins, ergo, I don't need to bolster their value). I didn't just pointlessly start bragging about the amount of my sales for no good reason. I'm an exceedingly humble guy and would never, never, never brag about anything......well, maybe a few things. Anyway.... >>
OK, so you sold $250k worth of coins a month. And the NGC coins probably sold at a discount compared to their PCGS counterparts, which is what has you so angry. See above.
<< <i>You should know that the two people who I directed my irritation at are two people who can’t resist interrupting my threads and taking shots at me. You wouldn't probably have noticed this, but it is true. >>
This is a public forum. If you are going to start a thread with an antagonistic title, expect negative comments. I simply made a statement about the possibility of having a hard time selling a NGC supergrade. You came back with one of your typical personal insults, once again showing all of us what an arrogant, condescending individual you are.
<< <i>We have a harmonious relationship - I don’t like them and they don’t like me. They are basically just gnats to me and I imagine that I will always like to swipe at gnats. >>
For only being a gnat to you, I sure caused you to spend a lot of time taking shots at me. But this is nothing new, and it is why you basically got ran out of RCC for your constant whining and attacks on those who disagreed with your tactics. It is my opinion the only reason you are here is to pump yourself up, and drum up business. You may have a small crowd who think you are some sort of god, but I'm not one of them. As long as you remain here, and start antagonistic threads like this, expect more of the same from me.
09/07/2006
Ill pm ya the details.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>
<< <i>What are you two guys (K6AZ and pontiacinf) doing with your lives - finishing your GEDs? >>
Sometimes its hard admitting I'm a lawyer when there are guys like Adrian posting this BS on a forum about 2 well repsected members.
Michael >>
We have them in every profession Michael.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
"eric the windbag isnt worth your time or effort, believe me."
Pont.......Who is "Eric the Windbag?"
Are you and Frattlaw studying English together?
K6somethingorother said:
"For only being a gnat to you, I sure caused you to spend a lot of time taking shots at me."
Taking shots at you is like shooting skeet - it's entertainment..
"But this is nothing new, and it is why you basically got ran out of RCC for your constant whining and attacks on those who disagreed with your tactics. "
I didn't get run out of RCC. I stopped posting there because it was filled with people who want to know how much their two headed quarter with a seam along the edge is worth. By the way, are you projecting - did you get run out of there?
"It is my opinion the only reason you are here is to pump yourself up, and drum up business."
Pumping myself up. Well, I must admit that slapping you real hard from time to time does make me feel good, so I'll give you that one.
As far as drumming up business, that isn't the reason I post here, however I have sold probably about 10-20 coins over the past 4 or so years to board members, with a combined value of about $30,000 (these are really, really rough estimates) some of which probably don't come from activities here but from my presence on eBay. So, for you that might be enough motivation to spend as much time here posting as I do, however it is no motivation for me. And, by the way...we both have links to our eBay sites, for whatever its's worth, Mr. kettle.
Mr. Stove
"Coin collecting is so much better for me now that I am out of the Registry game all together."
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.
Again, if being a part of the Registry game has been rewarding for you, great.
"Coin collecting is so much better for me now that I am out of the Registry game all together."
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.
Again, if being a part of the Registry game has been rewarding for you, great.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
i agree!!
buy the coin not the holder
and start your own private registry set
make your own website
take your own photos or have a friend do it!
just make sure the coins are great
and with superlative eye appeal
and at the very least matches the grade and designation on the holder
if the coin is undergraded well just a plus
i think with many free website hosting if you can get some great photos of your coins you can post them to the site and not be a webmaster to do it!
then put your site on google or share it here on the boards
and if you play the registry game well good for you if it makes you happy GO FOR IT
michael
I think there is a great deal of insight there. I think it would be easy to start making your rank the number one priority instead of getting a great collection together.
Rank is all about grades on the holders, not the coins themselves.
I think though it would end up being a rather difficult thing to handle appropriately. I think rank is seductive because it is objective and the quality of your coins is subjective.>>>
Well just because smoeone has a high ranking registry set doesn't mean that they just went out and bought the first POS ms66 coin they came across or the first ms64 listing from 555 items found for 1880 Morgans on eBay. You have to believe that at least smoe thought and discrimination went into the selection.
make your own website
take your own photos or have a friend do it!
just make sure the coins are great
and with superlative eye appeal
and at the very least matches the grade and designation on the holder
if the coin is undergraded well just a plus
i think with many free website hosting if you can get some great photos of your coins you can post them to the site and not be a webmaster to do it!
then put your site on google or share it here on the boards"
There's some productive creativity!
I think that there are certainly many people whose primary goals are getting great collections together and who just epiphenomenally register their sets. That's the way it should be. (And buying coins by the numbers is a by product of the biggest problem with technical grading.)
Of course, that isn't the problem that this thread is addressing nor is it the problem that Laura was describing in her website. Thanks for clarifying that though, as many people could read what is in this thread and others and come to the conclusion that the criticism is that the registry sets (ideas) are just bad.
There are very few wimps on this board or at least intimate to this thread. Instead there are lots of strong opinions ; strong vested interests ; a paucity of civility; and a great deal of humor for the observers of this debate.
It does point out the powerful nature of lists and money.
It also shows the value of the internet where antagonists can insult each other from the safety of their screen instead of dueling in the forest.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
sorry Baley, my kids lost my un-abridged dictionary.
First of all, it's a great word because on many occasions it eliminates a large number of words to communicate an idea.
Essentially, in the context in which i used it, it means that the reason a guy puts together a great set of coins is to put together a great set of coins. The registration of that set of coins isn't the objective but it essentially occurs as a result of the accumulation. The intent to register doesn't effect the way the coins are accumulated.
(If you put the accumulation of coins for the purpose of getting a high score in the registry, you probably won't end up with a great collection.)
The registry is exactly about the number on the slab. The number on the slab represents PCGS's idea of the grade of said coin on the day it was graded. As a purchaser of that coin and a participant in the registry it is up to you to satisfy yourself that the coin is indeed consistent with the grade on the label since as we know grading is subjective. If it doesn't meet your standards then don't buy it.
I dunno, that's just how I see it......... I couldn't see spending so much time and effort and money building a world class set only to sell it all as soon as I finished it.
I think too, that once you've gotton all the easy ones and only the tough ones remain....and that they are already owned by guys who occupy the top spots, it's discouraging to those fellas who are at #5, for example, to continue the pursuit. They become disinterested in the series and easily enough, get excited about another series.
What better way to dump a collection for cash to begin a new pursuit than to sell at auction AND to get your picture into an auction catalog!
and then, some collect registry sets.
It all depends upon what level you choose.
Heck, there seem to be coin companies collecting, adding, replacing qualified coin guys all the time recently,
and for that matter there are coin companies collecting, adding, replacing other coin companies...
They guys who stand to get burned playing the registry game are the guys who buy (rather than make) top pops for top prices and hold them until they get diluted by newly made coins. The more saavy longer term holders will closely monitor undergrades and not go for a top pop until (1) there are a sufficient number at that grade to bring the price into equilibrium or (2) until they have sniffed out the market well enough to have solid comfort level that there is a low risk of dilution--this works only in truly rare dates or dates that have a big gap between the top pop and the undergrades.
CG