I have no sympathy whatsoever for coin weenies who play the PCGS Registry game and whine

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 4:07AM

Sorry, but they should know what they're getting into from the very beginning. Grading is subjective and if you want to play in the PCGS playground and they don't allow any balls on their property other than their own, than you can either play by their rules or go play somewhere else or go find another game to play.

ddbird · June 21, 2004 4:09AM

No balls come near my property either...strictly ball free...ONLY MY OWN!

K6AZ · June 21, 2004 4:10AM

Having trouble selling a supergrade NGC coin are we?

braddick · June 21, 2004 4:12AM

<< Sorry, but they should know what they're getting into from the very beginning. Grading is subjective and if you want to play in the PCGS playground and they don't allow any balls on their property other than their own, than you can either play by their rules or go play somewhere else or go find another game to play. >>

Yes, the short of it is, learn to play with your own balls and not with others.

ddbird · June 21, 2004 4:13AM

Woohoo..this keeps gettin better! Bring forth the ball jokes..lol!

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 4:13AM

"Having trouble selling a supergrade NGC coin are we?

What are you trying to say?

I'm not sure of the applicability of your statment. I wouldn't have any sympathy for anyone who is upset about their PCI coin not getting crossed into an NGC holder either, so that they could put it into the NGC registry.

I think the whole concept of trying to have the best set (as determined by the objective grade on a holder) somewhat misses the point of numismatics.

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 4:14AM

By the way, Braddick, good one!

rlawsha · June 21, 2004 4:18AM

I only have a lowly state quarter registry set but I knew the rules going in. I don't go to Sears and complain because they don't carry JC Penny merchandise. It's only common business sense for PCGS to accept only PCGS graded coins for PCGS registry sets. DUH!

pontiacinf · June 21, 2004 4:20AM

Having trouble selling a supergrade NGC coin are we?

I second that emotion

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 4:22AM

I buy super high grade NGC coins because i like them. I also buy super high grade PCGS coins that i like.

Is there something wrong with that?

By the way, last year i averaged monthly sales of coins in the neighborhood of $250,000 per month.

What are you two guys (K6AZ and pontiacinf) doing with your lives - finishing your GEDs?

keets · June 21, 2004 4:25AM

hey Adrian

i've always been amazed at the competitive nature of the Registry Set concept. i currently have two sets listed with three sets i'm building but choose not to post just yet. my approach is simple, i try to get the nicest coins i can with the intention of matching them with each other and it matters little if they are the highest grade or what the final "set grade point average" happens to be.

al h.

EvilMCT · June 21, 2004 4:26AM

<< They should NOT have to be street wise to collect coins. >>

So, it's OK to not know the hobby, how to grade, etc. Just buy the plastic?

Ken

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 4:27AM

Hey Keets! I think you're approaching it in a way that in a way that is far healthier than some of the guys who i have read about.

(And pontiacinf, by looking at you ebay listings, i take it you deal in full step Jefferson nickels. Given that information, i would be careful about picking on a guy's coins.)

RGL · June 21, 2004 4:28AM

I have some Registry sets ... I guess I am a weenie and weak, to boot, the inference being that I can't grade and have to rely on the holy grail of the grade on the plastic. That is very condescending and dismissive attitude toward Registry collectors, particularly little guys like myself who cannot afford to "buy" the plastic and have to count on cherrypicking raw coins as an affordable alternative. I hate to disappoint, but sorry, I can indeed grade in the series in which I specialize and have made many coins as testament to the fact. I resent the notion that all Registry collectors care about is the grade on the insert, not the coin. Nothing could be farther from the truth for the majority of collectors around here.

keets · June 21, 2004 4:29AM

...........and i forgot to add that it doesn't matter if the coins are raw or in an XYZ holder. i buy 'em, crack 'em and submit 'em to PCGS if they "fit" and don't worry about the grade.

al h.

K6AZ · June 21, 2004 4:32AM

ss350camaro · June 21, 2004 4:34AM

Eric !!! Will you please stop posting my internet profile pic all over this message board !!

lava · June 21, 2004 4:38AM

The debate over the registry system is an important one. But it is important to keep in mind that it is not a subject that is strictly about coins and coin grading; by necessity it is about money. Someone shows you a coin, and you opine ms66. You are then asked to insure your grade, and out of self-interest (self-preservation), you build in a buffer, and insure it as an ms65. Like Vegas where ties go to the house, borderline coins get the lower of the two possible grades. As the insurer, it is justifiable, as the submitter it is less than ideal, and as the grader, well, the grader is open to attack. It isn't a perfect system.

I would not want to try and make a living going to auctions and buying coins I thought might upgrade. Try as I might, there is no getting around the subjectiveness involved.

As an aside, in my latest attempt at submitting a coin I thought was undergraded, I submitted for regrade an 1894-s morgan in pcgs 63. I submitted the coin because I think it is pl. It came back 64 but not pl. So, I got an upgrade but for an unanticipated reason. As I said, glad I don't make a living at this.

Placid · June 21, 2004 4:39AM

Want to buy some retired pcgs cert numbers?

keets · June 21, 2004 4:52AM

Secondly, it is within the realm of possibility that PCGS just saw the grade differently the third time around - and Laura, let's be honest - how many of our friends have said "we tried this coin 8 times and finally gave up"......hoping to take advantage of the subjective nature of grading....(and who neglect to say "we sent this in 9 times and finally upgraded it and made $26,000! and now you can buy this barely made it coin for 4 times what we originally paid for it!)

this may be the Numismatic dirty little secret that many try to ignore.

al h.

rlawsha · June 21, 2004 5:02AM

It sure is hard to read between the lines here and figure out what you guys are talking about. I'll keep reading and see if I can pick it up. All too often it seems there is a hidden meaning behind a lot of posts. Since I have only been a member since January I don't know the history of a lot of you folks. Anyway, I'll be quiet and listen.......

K6AZ · June 21, 2004 5:03AM

<< Will you please stop posting my internet profile pic all over this message board !! >>

OK, I made a mistake. That was not the correct image for this thread. This is:

ss350camaro · June 21, 2004 5:05AM

Damn!! You found my "alt i.d." profile !!

BBN · June 21, 2004 5:09AM

This is an entirely pointless thread.

ms70 · June 21, 2004 5:11AM

This could've been a good thread but it seems some shorts are twisted a bit to tight for some unknown reason.

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 5:12AM

The point could be that some things are pointless. Some people need an example as a way of fleshing out precisely what is meant by pointless. One could just be practicing their typing skills which would make it pointless to a degree.

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 5:14AM

"This could've been a good thread but it seems some shorts are twisted a bit to tight for some unknown reason."

The precursor to the thong. They had to get rid of the twisting though...it can pull hairs.

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 5:17AM

One last thing, back on the topic for the newcomers......PCGs is believed by many, if not the majority of coin collectors, to be the most conservative grading service.

"If it gets into a PCGS holder as a 65, well then by golly, it must really be a 65!"

ms70 · June 21, 2004 5:17AM

<< "This could've been a good thread but it seems some shorts are twisted a bit to tight for some unknown reason." >>

<< The precursor to the thong. They had to get rid of the twisting though...it can pull hairs. >>

XpipedreamR · June 21, 2004 5:17AM

My question:

I have both NGC and PCGS graded coins, and am not involved in either registry program. I don't really care either way how the companies decide to run them.

The problem seems to be that some want the PCGS registry to allow both companies coins as does NGC, while others want the PCGS to consist of only PCGS coins on the grounds that NGC coins are not equal.

I think that those who want to have their coins in a PCGS-only registry should be able to. Those who want to list their coins in a mixed registry are currently able to do this at NGC. So, a viable, legitimate mixed registry already exists for those who wish list their coins in this way. So, what's the problem?

It seems to me that those who would like to open the PCGS registry up to NGC coins must, deep down, not really feel that NGC is up to snuff, or they would simply have their coins in the NGC registry, and that would be that...end of story.

I would appreciate some perspectives on this

PreTurb · June 21, 2004 5:17AM

The way I look at it, the registry set concept is a tremendous and successful marketing ploy. It has been a catalyst for the frenzy we have been witnessing over the last few years. Personally, whenever I think "marketing" and "coins" in the same thought, I think "run like heck in the opposite direction".

Most of the frustration I am hearing occurs within the high mint state /proof grades, where, at times, it is hard to visually distinguish a weak 65 from a decent 65 from a strong 65, and so on... Fortunately, I collect a series where I won't emotionally disintegrate if a coin comes back a VG10 instead of a F12. I really do feel sorry for those folks who treat the whole thing like a lottery - if it comes back a 66, it's a $2000 coin. If a 65, it's a $20 coin. The focus here is not on the coin or the enjoyment of the coin, it is on money or a favorable registry position. Coins that "don't make it" are discarded like a beanie baby with a crease in the tag. I suppose it all depends on what you're in the hobby for - to make money, or enjoy the history and beauty of coins. Each to his own...

nankraut · June 21, 2004 5:22AM

Can't we all just get along? NOPE!

ss350camaro · June 21, 2004 5:28AM

<< Do you think the Registry competitors are the type that leave their garage doors open all the time to show off their fancy cars to the neighbors? >>

NOOOOO !! And get it stolen !??!

Seriously, After recently finishing a complete Lincoln Cent album set, I started a 1959 - current Lincoln Memorial Proof Cent (PCGS graded) set. Not an extremely hard set to construct, but a few are fairly expensive in higher grades. I purchased what i could afford at the time, and 'settled' for lower grade examples that were affordable, to finish up the set. ( i still need 1, 1973)

From topics and opinions posted on this forum i decided PCGS graded coins were what i would look for. I came across many, many NGC rated coins that would fill a void but, again based on the references and differences in grade expressed here, i stuck to PCGS. The consideration of entering it all into the PCGS Registry was not a thought in the begining. Only AFTER i received an email from PCGS about upcoming Registry Set awards, did i consider entering my set to see where it stood. I knew that an award was not possible but wanted to see where my efforts would place my set. My placement at #27 was a suprise. I must admit that because of this i am seriously considering upgrades to see where it might go. I guess you would call that "playing the PCGS Registry game"? Heck, why not? To me it's part of collecting and it adds some fun. If i had swayed from my path of going after only PCGS coins then i would not be able to see where my efforts were in comparison to someone elses.

LincolnCentMan · June 21, 2004 5:30AM

Adrian,

Part of the PCGS Registry game is just a game to many of us. I'm working on a MS lincoln set. I'd be working on it wheather the registry were here or not. I'd say about 15-20% of my collection is NGC. I do have the PCGS portion of my set registared just for the fun of it. It is, after all, just a game... and games are ment to be fun. I've sold several PCGS 65's to replace them with nicer NGC 64's. In the end, the best coin is the one that goes in my set... not the "best" holder.

David

MSD61 · June 21, 2004 5:32AM

Oh well, I am still proud of my set. I really don't give a rat's back end if it's ever voted one of the "best". It was the first set of graded coins I had ever completed in my life and it made me feel great that I could take part in putting them in a registry. It's just an Ike set and I now that might not seem much to some who have many high-end registry sets and can throw money around with no care.

But as one with a registry set I never was in it for the glory. To me it marked a personal achievement in my collecting

keets · June 21, 2004 5:34AM

sometime during 2003 a PCGS administrator posted a thread which outlined the PCGS proposal for inclusion of NGC holdered coins in the PCGS Set Registry. as i recall, it basically amounted to a participant submitting the NGC holdered coin to PCGS. the coin would be assessed and a sticker affixed----leaving the coin in the NGC golder----and the owner would then be able to enter the coin in his/her Registered set. this evidentally never came to fruition and was lost to the archives.

i find that idea to have merit but always felt OK with PCGS only coins in a PCGS Regsitry. as to the thread topic, there are different approaches to take when assembling a set and some combine several elements, some good and some not so good, from my lofty perch at least. i think there's a tendency to assume that the top collections are all about money while discounting the Set Owner's Numismatic knowledge. the generality is that those sets are built by rich snobs who don't know the difference between grades and just want to stroke their ego. certainly that may be true, but i have found that just as often those sets are built by dedicated collectors who also happen to have the means to purchase the best coins. in between are collectors like myself who are long term top set builders or even casual collectors who aren't interested in the noteriety, just the coins and all that goes with the experience.

in a nutshell, we each tend to get ourselves in trouble when we pigeon-hole collectors. as an old saying cautions, "Contempt prior to investigation..................."

al h.

ANACONDA · June 21, 2004 5:35AM

"Part of the PCGS Registry game is just a game to many of us"

That's the way it should be. Unfortunately, some folks really get into it......to their detriment. And it is very unfortunate for them, on occasion. For some of them.

jeffnpcb · June 21, 2004 5:45AM

I don't get the game aspect from collecting or registry sets! The fact that you have to resubmit a coin several times and even crack it out to get a decent grade is a farce at best! ie: Russ' 2 cent shield was bb'd once! So, is the name of the game actually your name or have you chapped someone at PCGS and should never submit a coin again for a regrade or cross?

elwood · June 21, 2004 6:01AM

It's PCGS's game!!! If you don't like the rules, don't play.

Laura's customer cuts and runs because he can't upgrade one coin. Doesn't sound like a serious collector to me, just someone playing the game. (my definition of serious has nothing to do with amount of money spent)

I hear story, after story, after story of particular coins being submitted numerous times. The owner finally gives up, sells the coin and the next owner sends it in once and what do ya know? 1st time....upgrade.

I bought a coin raw once that I thought was a Gem. After 3 or 4 times it game back 64, each time. I sold it to a dealer he sent it in, IN THE HOLDER, for regrade, Boom, 1st time comes back a 65.

Yes PCGS's inconsistancy stinks, but hey, that's the game.

To me, the Finest Certified Sets (not finest known) is a crazy game. Lets see, in MS-66 I'll pay $500.00 but in MS-67 I'll pay $5,000.00. Sounds like a good deal, yes. Bah, sounds like a big ego to me. $4,500.00 for some tiny mark that isn't even distinguishable to the naked eye. I've seen hundreds of coins in MS-66 holders that I wouldn't grade MS-64.

ClausUrch · June 21, 2004 6:23AM

PCGS, NGC or ANACS; it is irrelevant to me! I have been known to be an "equal opportunity" crack-out collector.

If you compete only with yourself, you always end up with the best set!

The Claus Urch Raw Set......All Time Finest I've Assembled Sofar!

lloydmincy · June 21, 2004 6:23AM

ANACONDA:

not sure what you are so mad about:

This is the bottom line. PCGS HAS MASTERED THE ART OF MARKETING IN NUMISMATICS!!! Remember Madonna and all her controversial music, books (sex) videos, (justify my love, black jesus she kissed in "prayer"). What did they end up getting for her??? More money/profits than most will ever dream of having!!! She sold so many more D*** records and books on critical press... What was she REALLY DOING?

MARKETING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And laughing while she cashed her giant checks.

PCGS and their registry sets are making numismatics more fun with the concept yet at the same time, if you want to have a registry set with them, well gosh darn it, YOU HAVE TO BUY THEIR HOLDERS!!!! What a concept!! WHY WOULD they even consider any other holders like NGC in their registry, when they force you to pay them fees to change the slab. ??? Are you guys and gals sooo niave to think it would be a good idea for PCGS to accept other holders? They could CARE LESS about any other grading firm, but themselves.

Come one, we weren't born yesterday.

There will be SOME that will buy a coin or two, and get burned. But it will not be the BIG TIME PLAYERS. I am happy for you ANACONDA, that you move 250K a month. How many have YOU ripped off, and laughed to the bank with their check? Moving that volume, you're not in this business for charity reasons.

PCGS is in business to make money. And with registry sets, what a great way to keep the books flowing with accounts receivables...

While I'm at it, keets, you had a thread about an EBAYer that wouldnt let you bid with him anymore, because you had a negative beef with whomever it was, and you wondered why "he" still had a grudge on you. I remember reading the thread more, and you were interested in maybe bidding on a 1938 Jefferson, starting bid $78. I wouldn't do business with you ever again EITHER. A waste of time for a tiny spender that complains.

MikeKing · June 21, 2004 6:40AM

WOW

LucyBop · June 21, 2004 6:47AM

and when I built my Registry set and did crossovers, crackouts, regular gradings, purchase low pop coins..

I didn't want or look for your sympathy or anybody elses, and I could care less what anybody thought,
I did it because I could and because I wanted to, the Registry to me is fun and a big online album of my collection.

Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

jeffnpcb · June 21, 2004 6:48AM

Yeah, you can't beat quality and conservative grading!

Claus, That set is astounding!

IrishMike · June 21, 2004 7:00AM

Adrian the only comment I would disagree with you about is your statement that some of the poster have a hidden point, actually they don't have a point at all. However they would like us to think they do, but you probably already knew this.

LucyBop · June 21, 2004 7:04AM

<< Adrian the only comment I would disagree with you about is your statement that some of the poster have a hidden point, actually they don't have a point at all. However they would like us to think they do, but you probably already knew this.

>>

and whats your point?

jeffnpcb · June 21, 2004 7:04AM

Now it is all clear to me about the registry programs! While this thread has been going on I've been watching "Catch 22" on AMC at the same time and this whole thing came together! We can all get what we what from the registry as long as we just like them!

TONEDDOLLARS · June 21, 2004 7:15AM

I list my coins in the Registry as a way to share my collection with others. I have no illusions that I'll ever be in the top of anything other than my own happiness. My collection is mine, it is mine to share with all who want to look at it. It also helps being in the registry in that I have been contacted by sellers who know I need a certain date, and ask if I'm interested in buying that coin. Big help!!!

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it

TD

JadeRareCoin · June 21, 2004 7:22AM

What amazes me is that just about everyone here acknowledges that PCGS, NGC and ANACS are inconsistent. Right? Well, doesn't that undermine their credibility as qualified, professional graders? Yet the submissions just continue to flow in at record levels.

LucyBop · June 21, 2004 8:15AM

<< What amazes me is that just about everyone here acknowledges that PCGS, NGC and ANACS are inconsistent. Right? Well, doesn't that undermine their credibility as qualified, professional graders? Yet the submissions just continue to flow in at record levels. >>

you know why Jade, a Professionaly graded coin by the big 3 carries more value and pontiential for a nice return.

bottom line, money......

MrEureka · June 21, 2004 8:19AM

What amazes me is that just about everyone here acknowledges that PCGS, NGC and ANACS are inconsistent.

Inconsistent compared to whom?

I have no sympathy whatsoever for coin weenies who play the PCGS Registry game and whine

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