1971 S "Peg Leg" MS Ike$ Should it be in the Varieties Registry?

DRG

I just had a discussion with Mr. Hall about the 71S "Peg Leg" variety Ike. He suggested that if the majority of Ike collectors would like to see this coin added to the "With Varieties Registry" he would be willing to do so.

So how do the other Ike collectors feel?

I think it is the other most collected Ike variety after the 3 1972 Philly types and should be included.

Currently PCGS does not even recognize this variety, as they did not recognize the 1972 types just a year or so ago. I think it would add a lot to the variety set and I do not see any down side so my vote is YES!

As an aside, I met Mr. Hall at the PCGS invitational today here in Las Vegas. It was an honor to meet the legend. He was incredibly helpful and easy to talk with. It didn't hurt that we had surfed the same spots throughout Orange County in our youths. I am looking forward to meeting with him again tomorrow. If you ever get the chance to come to one of these events I highly recommend that you attend.

segoja

Absolutely should add it. As we really look at this set, the "D" mint silver planchet Ikes should be added as well.

What is the highest graded Peg Leg MS out there? If have a few 65's, but no 66's. Picked one up jsut this past weekend. They are tough tough coins to find. I would suggest tougher than the type II 72-P.

Thoughts anyone???

alergar

You have a yes vote from me, David add it!!

I stoped by the invitational today also, just needed to pick up some submittal flips.

DRG

I agree that the 71 S "Peg Leg" is even tougher then the 72 T2. I have found only 2 after a considerable amount of searching.

As for the silver planchets, I would have to disagree that they belong in the variety set. To me these are specimen error coins and not varieties.

I know the distinction blurs at certain points but the silver planchets are simply to rare to be included in the Registry set. I think that only varieties that were made in significant number and that are obvious enough to be seen with a naked eye should be included in the Registry.

Wondercoin's one of a kind Ike would be a good example of a specimen coin that if included in the Registry would make completion impossible for all but one person. At some point if PCGS wants to make a complete Ike Registry all of the subtle varieties could be included but I do not think this is likely. The overall trend has been to include what most reasonably advanced collectors consider essential, not all known varieties.

Back to the real question, all Mr. Hall said he would need to see is 7 out of the top 10 Ike collectors agree that the "Peg Leg" should be included and then he would look into it, so lets here some more votes.

Gandyjai

You got my vote!

I have a couple......but nothing higher than 65
I agree with James.....tougher to find than a 72-P Type 2!

Gandyjai

I LOVE Ikes!!

bushmaster8

Yes, pegleg is a legit variety and should be added.

USMC_6115

How about the 72-D Pegleg?

Typetone

Yes. Should the proof 71S peg leg be added to the proof registry?

Greg

GRANDAM

I vote YES-YES-YES on the 1971-S Peg LEG & NO-NO-NO on the Planchet Varities.

GrandAm

#7 IKE Varities Set

CoinHusker

What's the current going price (value) for a 71-S PCGS MS65 Peg Leg?

jcping

Is 71-S a die variety or it is at a different die state (after die polished)?

I think 72-D peg leg is created after die polished. If a 71-S Peg leg is a 37-D buffalo 3-legged, then 72-D Peg leg is a 36-D 3 1/2 legged.
No one is talking about 36D 3 and a half legged buffalo in the set registry nor 2 feather coins. Why should we force 72-D into the set?

For 71-S mint state and Proof Peg Leg Ike dollars, my vote is YES since it is a well known variety in the collector circle.
As Dave said, it needs at least pop 5 in order to create an entry in the set registry. I believe 71-S MS qualify this requirement.

jcping

> What's the current going price (value) for a 71-S PCGS MS65 Peg Leg?

I don't know any one is for sale in the market now. The last one in the market was sold by SuperCoin.
It did not go for sky price. If PCGS adds it into set registry, prepare to pay moon money to get an MS65.

Agflyer

I'd love to see the '71-s peg leg added to the registry. I have mine in to PCGS right now, though it won't grade higher than possibly a 64. I agree that the '72-d should be added as well!

GRANDAM

OK, by my count we now have 5 of the Top 10 IKE Variety Set owners voting YES! All we need is 2 more YES votes. How about it Greg, Mike or Joe?

Common guys! VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GrandAm

DRG

No one knows for sure how the 71 S Peg Leg was created. Wexler believes that the mint was attempting to find letttering that would strike better while in close proximity to Ike's head, that is they changed the R in LIBERTY for minting reasons. If this is true the Peg Leg is a true variety. There is the possibility that it is a result of die polishing just like the 3 and 3 1/2 leg Buffalo's.

The 1972 D Peg Leg's that I have seen all have evidence of a clashed die and I believe are caused by die polishing. I have also seen Peg Leg appearing Ike's from several different years and mints. My guess is that they are all caused by the same process of die polishing after die clashes.

The 71S Peg Leg is the 3 leg Buffalo of the Ike series and I feel strongly that it should be included in the "With Varieties" Ike registry.

I have a couple rolls of 1972 D Peg Legs, so I am not so sure that they are rare. I would also vote to include them but I figured I would go one at a time. If there is support for both, I would agree.

I think 72-D peg leg is created after die polished. If a 71-S Peg leg is a 37-D buffalo 3-legged, then 72-D Peg leg is a 36-D 3 1/2 legged.i].[ No one is talking about 36D 3 and a half legged buffalo in the set registry nor 2 feather coins. Why should we force 72-D into the set?

Actually, the 36D 3 1/2 leg IS part of the "with Varieties" Buffalo set

bushmaster8

Anyone know of a pegleg webpage? Similar to the nice webpage out there for the accented hair Kennedy?

CoinHusker

Try Supercoin.com. He's not selling any nlonger but I think his variety information is still available on his site.

Waldo

Long time collector, first time caller.
30 year collector with no Ike experience. Pegleg?

Gandyjai

Hi Waldo,

The term "Peg Leg" refers to the R in Liberty.....It has no serifs flared out at the bottom of
the "Leg" of the R.....Instead, It looks like a pirate's wooden leg, and kind of tapers down to a point.
Very Common on the 71-S Proof Very rare on the 71-S Uncirculated "Blue" Ikes.

Gandyjai

CoinHusker

I'm not the most qualified or the most educated to answer your question but, Peg Leg is referring to the "R" in Liberty over Ike's head. On a very few 1971-S coins the "R" is missing the serif thus the "peg leg", straight up and down like a peg, description. From what I understand all of the 72-S ikes have "peg legs" so if you want to see what one looks like look at a 72-S Ike. Hope that helps.

CoinHusker

I'm not in the top 10, I'm currently lucky #13, but I would vote yes to adding the 71-S variety. It's a legitimate variety and would add to the variety set.

Now, to the real question...does anyone one have an extra to spare?!

cladking

I collect Ikes by varieties and certainly the '71-S peg leg is a good one.

It's not extremely difficult to find but still presents something of a challenge.

It seems ideal for the registry set.

Rampage

PCGS needs to start recognizing the variety first, no?

DRG

Well then it seems we have votes for the 1971 S & 1972 D "Peg Leg" Ikes to be added to the with varieties set.

Mr. Hall what do you think?

Rampage

I forgot to place my vote......I would love to see these added to the registry and to have PCGS recognize the varieties. I have yet to register my set, but will be doing so soon. Should come close to being in the top 20, hopefully. These coins would be in my set as well.

segoja

Clad King, we are talking the MS Peg Leg. As David points out, they are very veyr tough. I've found 4-5 in 20 years of looking. I found my first one back in 1986, and it looks completely different.

In Wexler's book he devotes a full page to the coin. He was not aware of the coin, until I sent him 3 examples. He credits me with the discovery in the book. I'm not a die expert, but everyone I have looks identical, so I say it's a completely different die. The portrait looks different and the lettering looks different.

As for value, good guess. In 65 I'd say $500+. If PCGS recognizes the varieity and there are very few of them, it may go as high as the Type II.

Just MHO!

James

cladking

<< <i>Clad King, we are talking the MS Peg Leg. As David points out, they are very veyr tough. I've found 4-5 in 20 years of looking. I found my first one back in 1986, and it looks completely different.

In Wexler's book he devotes a full page to the coin. He was not aware of the coin, until I sent him 3 examples. He credits me with the discovery in the book. I'm not a die expert, but everyone I have looks identical, so I say it's a completely different die. The portrait looks different and the lettering looks different.

As for value, good guess. In 65 I'd say $500+. If PCGS recognizes the varieity and there are very few of them, it may go as high as the Type II.

Just MHO!

James >>



I was confused. Thought it was the proof version. The MS is much tougher and I've never
found one. Even rare varieties are desirable though.

CoinHusker

<< <i>Well then it seems we have votes for the 1971 S & 1972 D "Peg Leg" Ikes to be added to the with varieties set. >>




Does the 72-D have the same claim to a true variety as the 71-S? I was under the impression it wasn't. Can anyone help clear the muddy waters for me? Thanks!!

segoja

Mitch,

Not sure about the 72-D. I would not necessarily vote that one in. My vote would be just the 71-S Peg Leg MS. Maybe the proof is ok in the proof series as well, but not sure it's enough by itself to start a variety proof series.

awilson10

Hello Ike Gods!
It is with awe and humillity that I post in your presence because I am a lowly newbie that wishes to learn from your great wealth of knowledge. I have a raw collection of Ike dollars that I have put together and in the process learned a little about different varieties like the '72 P types I,II, and III. I have also learned a little about the Peg-Leg variety and am considering expanding my collection to include it. I have a few peglegs that I got before I new they existed. Can anyone tell me which coins in the Ike series are known in the pegleg variety or possibly a good reference to find information about this and other varieties? I met a dealer at a local show recently and he told me about another variety involving hairstrands on Ike's temple. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

My humble regards,
Al

Gandyjai

Hi Al,

Welcome to Ike Land!
The MS 71-S is the one featured in Wexler's "Authoritative Reference Guide to Eisenhower Dollars"
that James refered to. This is a good book to get you started.
The 72-S Peg Leg came along a little later and is MUCH, MUCH more common. The
76-D Type 1 also has some Peg Legs.....Not real sure how common it is, as I have not seen a lot
of discusson about it. I am not real sure if the 72-D and 76-D Type 1 are actual varieties or just
a result of overpolshing dies.

Gandyjai

jcping

I have the same position as James. If any Peg Leg is a die variety, my vote is YES regardless of date and mint mark.
If it is due to overpolshing dies, then I don't think it is healthy to push them into set registry. We simply don't want to set a very high barrier for anyone to complete his set. For 71-S MS Peg Leg, I believe the known pop is over 20 so that it won't hurt the collecting family. For 72-D and 76 Peg Leg, my vote is "NO" unless some experts could prove it is a new die varirty.

segoja

JC,

We are on the same page!

cladking

<< <i>... and he told me about another variety involving hairstrands on Ike's temple. >>



Hair detail was lowered in this area on the type II bicentennial. Relief was also lowered
and a larger crease in the neck was added. There are no known mules so if this is what
he was referring to then it has little impact on collectors.

CoinHusker

<< <i> I am not real sure if the 72-D and 76-D Type 1 are actual varieties or just
a result of overpolshing dies. >>



Thanks folks for the help!

awilson10

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Wexlers Ike book? I have searched all the online book stores and I can't find it anywhere. If you have an extra or know where I can purchase one please PM me with the information. I would really like to learn as much about the series as I can and at some point maybe even try to put together a set worthy of registry.

Thanks in advance,
Al

segoja

Al,

Try the ANA store. I know they sold them.

I still have a few copies left, but since I helped write part of the book, I plan on hanging on to them.

If you still can't find it there, let me know!

DRG

Recap;

No one is against the 1971 S Mint State Ike being added to the "With Varieties" Ike set!

There is some debate about every thing else.



There is a question about what caused the Peg Leg variety.

I feel very strongly that it is from die over polishing. However, I do not think this is a problem. The 1937 D 3 leg buffalo was caused by die over polishing as was the 1922 Plain (No D) Lincoln and these are 2 of the best know and most widely collected "varieties". For those that do not know, "True Variety Collectors" do not consider over polished die varieties to be "Legitimate". They are considered to be random wear problems not true varieties. An example of a true variety is the Type 1, 2, & 3 1972 Philly Ikes. These were caused by purposeful changes at the mint to the working dies.

There is an old saying that if multiple possibilities exist to explain some phenomenon the simplest one is most likely to be true. The fact is that the Peg Leg has shown up on coins from 1971 S, 1972 D 1974 S Proof, and I have seen 1976 T2 Peg Legs. The simplest explanation for this recurring event is that when working Ike dies clash and are polished the most common element to be polished off is the bottom serif of the R in Liberty. It is not as romantic or as interesting as the mint changing the font but it is most likely the truth. This theory also explains why it was likely that a coin like the 36 D 3 1/2 leg Buffalo would and does exist.

To exclude the 71 S MS Ike in the variety set because some do not consider die polishing as legitimate does not make sense or follow prior PCGS practice (36 D 3 1/2 leg, 37 D 3 leg, & 22 No D are all in the variety sets).

The 1972 D Peg Leg can wait a while until more of us have seen them and agree. I think it is the 36 D 3 1/2 leg of the Ike series.

The 1971 S Proof Peg Leg should probably be added to the Proof Registry. I do no think there is any reason to start a proof variety set for this one coin. It is very common in both conditions and easy to distinguish with the naked eye.

One last comment. Walter Breen in the "Complete Encyclopdia of U.S. and Colonial Coins" mentions the 1971 S Proof Peg Leg Ike and states "From overpolished die" pg 463.

segoja

Mr. Golan,

Excellent recap! Now we need to make it happen.

How can we all help you do that???

DRG

Segoja; MR Hall said that all he would need to see is 7 out of 10 of the top Ike collectors agree that it should be added. I have not actually done the math but I think that there is enough here for PCGS to put out a questioner like they did about the Philly 1972 types. I will send Mr. Hall a link to this thread and see what happens from there.

bushmaster8

<< <i>... and it looks completely different.

... The portrait looks different and the lettering looks different.


James >>



James, can you be more specific? Or is it just a subjective difference??

Gandyjai

Is my computer messed up, or what?.....where is page 3?
I have Bushmaster8 posting the last thread, but I can't find anything past page 2!

Gandyjai

Edit to add: My computer must be in a time warp....it just showed up.

cladking

The page counter gets out of whack on occasion. Just add 1 to the last page shown on your browser and it shows up.

Gandyjai

Thanks, Cladking........Now, I learned something new today.

Gandyjai

CoinHusker

<< <i>Now, to the real question...does anyone one have an extra to spare?! >>



I'm still waiting.

Rampage

<< <i>

<< <i>Now, to the real question...does anyone one have an extra to spare?! >>


I'm still waiting. >>



I traded my one extra with a board member.

I have 6 or 7 of the 1972-D Peg Legs and also some of the 1976 T2 Peg Legs. I think ANACS attributes the 72D, I need to find out about the 76. If they do, I will submit the coins to them, although they are very easy to identify with the naked eye.

CoinHusker

<< <i>
I traded my one extra with a board member.
>>




Drats!

MSD61

You all know I had to speak up I agree about both peg leg varieties

segoja

Bushmaster - Hard to describe. See me at Mid-America.

I have a few extras, but if PCGS starts grading them, they'll be goign up in price, so what are they worth?

I've been getting $250 for 64's. I think 65's are $500 or more, and 66's don;t exist, yet. If PCGS attributes them, do they double?

CoinHusker

<< <i>
I have a few extras, but if PCGS starts grading them, they'll be goign up in price, so what are they worth?

I've been getting $250 for 64's. I think 65's are $500 or more, and 66's don;t exist, yet. If PCGS attributes them, do they double? >>




James,
Are you talking about certified but not yet attributed?

pragmaticgoat

Here's the latest email on including the pegleg variety to the Ike dollar set:


Hi Everyone,



Several weeks ago, we ran a poll to see if you would like PCGS to begin recognizing the Peg Leg Eisenhower dollar and add it to the Ike variety set. I would like to thank those who responded to the poll.



Because there were only slightly more of you who thought the coin should be recognized and not an overwhelming majority, David Hall would like to make this issue one of the “talking points” at the next PCGS luncheon which is scheduled for January 14th in Ft. Lauderdale at the FUN show (invitations will be emailed to you next week).



If you are planning to attend the luncheon, please be prepared to participate in this discussion. Your feedback will be very much appreciated. Thank you!



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