Nice NGC cross

shylock · June 4, 2004 9:43AM

PCGS MS66RD from NGC MS66RD. Kudos!

Russ · June 4, 2004 9:47AM

Man, what a difference the holder makes. Exactly double the price.

Russ, NCNE

coinlieutenant · June 4, 2004 9:49AM

Hey Paul.

Good to see you posting again!!

John

shylock · June 4, 2004 9:53AM

Russ - No fault to Heritage, but a side note: their image of the PCGS graded coin is brighter due to the white balance problem NGC (& ANACS) slabs present. NGC and ANACS copper slabs always appear a bit darker in their images.

RKKay · June 4, 2004 9:54AM

Welcome back, Paul.

Russ · June 4, 2004 9:58AM

Paul,

The thing is, though, that both these were floor auctions. The quality - or lack of - Heritage images generally has little impact except with their internet only auctions. Some sharp bidder looked past the NGC slab and saw the potential. From what I've seen of NGC lately, I think these opportunities are going to be fewer and fewer. At least in what I collect, there has been a perceptible tightening and narrowing of the gap.

Russ, NCNE

shylock · June 4, 2004 10:05AM

Russ -- Good point, the opportunities for those without anti-NGC bias abound. But the image problem is something for Heritage copper internet bidders to keep in mind

coinlieutenant · June 4, 2004 10:05AM

Russ,

If there is a tightening at NGC, wouldnt there be more and more opportunities to cross?

john

Russ · June 4, 2004 10:14AM

<< If there is a tightening at NGC, wouldnt there be more and more opportunities to cross? >>

John,

Temporarily, yes. But, once the market catches on prices on NGC coins will rise in sight-unseen trading and the spread will narrow. Lately, I've been hunting recently slabbed NGC stuff like a madman. Right now there's a huge value spread in the stuff I know about and I intend to take advantage of it while it lasts.

Edited to add: This is happening in my area of specialty and may not necessarily apply to other areas.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · June 4, 2004 10:21AM

Here's an example:

That one is very fresh from NGC graded MS66UCAM. If my analysis of the image is correct, (haven't got it in yet), it will cross at the same grade and DCAM at PCGS. If it does, it's current market value becomes more than double what I paid for it, including grading fees at PCGS.

Not so long ago, it was very hard to find one of these that had a reasonable chance. Lately I've been seeing quite a few.

Russ, NCNE

pontiacinf · June 4, 2004 10:22AM

umm...i do not know copper Paul, but might it be that a years time has transpired?...if it were last month and then yesturday, I might pop a squirt over it.

but then again, like i said, i dont know copper

coinlieutenant · June 4, 2004 10:24AM

I see your point...

Elcontador · June 4, 2004 11:08AM

A good point is being raised here. I saw lots of newly slabbed NGC material, and late last year, bought two such coins. In addition to minor coinage in general, another series where there is a large price gap is SLQs. If you can find an attractive for the grade NGC SLQ, you can get good value. My NGC 29P in 6 FH is nicer than any such coin in a PCGS holder I've ever seen.

Nice seeing you back, Paul.

keets · June 4, 2004 11:43AM

hey Paul

nice to see you post and glad to know you're OK!!!

al h.

nOoBiEeE · June 4, 2004 11:48AM

Everyone was wondering where you went to...

jom · June 4, 2004 3:07PM

<< their image of the PCGS graded coin is brighter due to the white balance problem NGC (& ANACS) slabs present. NGC and ANACS copper slabs always appear a bit darker in their images. >>

I true pain in the butt. It takes me forever to get a good pic of an NGC graded coin and I KNOW I take more time than Heritage does with their photos.

Good to have you back. Where ya been?

jom

stman · June 4, 2004 3:12PM

So I guess I'll need to get some of my older slabbed NGC coins re-holdered. Then they will appear freshly graded and I can sell for more.

Sphinx357 · June 4, 2004 3:18PM

... I thought I replied to this thread.. as did lordmacoven (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)
Was this thread remade?

jacktheknife · June 4, 2004 3:24PM

Shylock,

There you are! I was so worried that the premier copper coin photographer had disappeared. I agree totally with your observations about Heritage's imaging difficulties. What the possibility of you sending them a nicely worded note on how you do it? I think nice images go a long way, and they may be very thankful for your input.

nOoBiEeE · June 4, 2004 3:25PM

<< ... I thought I replied to this thread.. as did lordmacoven (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)
Was this thread remade? >>

There is another thread by shylock similar to this one..

Sphinx357 · June 4, 2004 3:27PM

phew not losing my mind then

coinguy1 · June 4, 2004 3:44PM

I could care less about the crossover but it sure is good to see you posting again Paul.

BigMoose · June 4, 2004 8:16PM

Welcome back, Professor! Really nice to see you posting again. TomT.

BigMoose · June 4, 2004 8:24PM

I have also noticed a similar phenomenon for recently graded NGC coins, particularly Proof indian Cents and Middle Date Large Cents. It seems that NGC "tightened" shortly after Rick Montgomery arrived, but I have only noticed this for Proof IHCs and Large Cents( Middle and Late Dates ). I have also noticed that the grading of Early Date Large Cents( 1793 to 1814 ) seems to have gone the opposite way, with many recent "loosely" graded Early Dates on the market.

Coppernicus · June 4, 2004 8:26PM

I bought an NGC '49-P Lincoln in 66RD for $50.00 a year or so ago. Cracked it and sent it to PCGS recently. Came back a 66RD!!! These are going for $300 or so. I've been bidding on a lot of late date wheats in NGC 66 holders to try and repeat this. Seems like a decent gamble.

Mike

cosmicdebris · June 4, 2004 8:36PM

Hi Paul

toothpuller · June 4, 2004 9:40PM

Shylock,

Did you notice that the 1864-L MS65RD in Tuesday's Heritage Internet Only Auction was the [newly] finest graded S3 - a real nice RPD? Went for no premium.

Great to see you posting.

Edited to add: just noticed you had another post about the 1864-L. As usual you miss nothing.

eagle7 · June 4, 2004 9:47PM

<< So I guess I'll need to get some of my older slabbed NGC coins re-holdered. Then they will appear freshly graded and I can sell for more.

>>

The serial numbers remain the same on NGC slabs, even after they put the coins in the new holders. For those of us who know that, the one's which are graded looser are easy to spot. The tightening came somewhere around the 1.5 mil level. Also, you need to view these coins sight seen. Even some of the ones which were graded in looser times are easy to cross and vice versa. If you dont know how to grade, and what is acceptable to each grading service, stay away from trying to cross these thngs. It will save you lots of money.

Tade · June 4, 2004 10:37PM

Coinguy 1 - Mark

This thread is about the money, not the coin.

FC57Coins · June 4, 2004 10:55PM

<< What a difference the holder makes. Exactly double the price. >>

What this thread is telling me is that there is still a majority of collectors out there buying the holder and not the coin. If a collector specializing in a particular series cannot tell the difference between an MS65 and a 66 coin, then he/she should go back to the drawingboard and do more research. It's ironic that Shylock should have posted this thread, as he is obviously one who can tell the what the coin is without having to use the holder as a crutch. Good for you Paul - and welcome back!

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · June 5, 2004 2:34AM

Tade - This post is PURE Shylock

Hi paul

Stewart

haletj · June 5, 2004 2:49AM

I bought this ngc ms65rd 1898 IHC real cheap! I'm hoping its at least a decent coin (haven't got it in the mail yet).

If you want to see a really big score, check out the 23-s Lincoln Cent that Marcalan just sold in the sale of his registry set...
bought
sold

Know what is really funny, look at the two opposite descriptions when it comes to the strike!!

Nice NGC cross

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