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Still intact proof sets
WACoinGuy
Posts: 1,110
What percentage of proof sets do you think are still intact in their original packaging?
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al h.
80% seems like it might be high to me -- you see an awful lot of modern proofs sold outside of proof sets.
jim
a few observations. Twenty years ago there would be a couple thousand proof
sets available at a good sized coin show. Dealers often didn't bring them to
shows because they were cheap, bulky to haul, and had a limited market. To-
day one will rarely see more than a few hundred proof sets at most shows.
Prices are higher and these will sell more readily so it would seem dealers are
more likely to tote them along. I've seen bag sets of proofs and heard the
stories about large percentages of a mintage disappearing over a few days.
Over the years I've found dozens of proofs in circulation including a VG 1968
quarter.
I'd guess at least half the 70's era sets have been intentionally dismantled and
many more have been destroyed by fire and flood. '80's sets are probably a-
round 30% destroyed and '90's are similar except later sets have greater at-
trition. '50's are probably more than 75% gone.
al h.
closely.
A few more observations- -The roll price for proofs compared to the intact price is dependent
on the rate at which the sets are being destroyed. When the proof singles are worth more
than the set it means they aren't being busted up quickly enough, when it is lower then the
sets are being dismantled fast enough. Most of the time over the last twenty years there
have been many sets which are worth more as pieces. Recently this effect has been moving into
later sets and is now very common in the '83 to '93 issues. This alone should imply that sig-
nificant accumulations are being destroyed. Anytime someone has a lot of sets to move and
they are worth more as singles there is a very high probability that the sets will be busted.
Not only do the pieces sell for more, but they can be shopped around for the highest price.
Most dealers accumulate these sets for only many months or a few years before they have too
much money tied up in them and sell them all wholesale. Many of these wholesale deals go to
dealers who bust the sets up. In fact until only recently there were very few buyers of any of
the modern sets for retail. Retail sales tend to be one or two or maybe a dozen sets to a col-
lector from a local shop or mail order dealer, but most dealers acquire these in much larger quan-
tities. It isn't unusual for even small dealers to get $4,000 or $8,000 deals on lifetime accumulations
of proof sets. Most of these end up at wholesalers, and significant numbers are busted up.
It's safe to assume that many collectors and others would remove an S-mint clad from circulation.
These should not usually circulate well and are not usually found with much more than light wear.
Yet if you look at only 8,000 or so circulating quarters there probably will be a proof in in it. This
would seem to imply many millions of these have been placed into circulation since proof mintage
is only around .4% of circulation mintage (and these do not circulate freely).
Most of the proof singles are in sets and in rolls controlled by speculators or dealers, yet still there
are large numbers in circulation. Don't forget too, that about 1% of things will be destroyed each
year in fires, floods, and other mishaps.
Proof set mintages since the mid-'50's are very high and it's unlikely any will be tough anytime soon,
but I have to believe that large percentages of many of these dates no longer exist.
I did get a pretty good stack of 1980's proof Jack's once.
<< <i>Actually maybe not, a local dealer has about 60 1964 sets in original packaging including some un-opened.
jim >>
You better go cherrypick the AH's before Russ finds out where they are.
Are they here in MA I am starting to like AH's
Joe
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
A couple things. If he is doing this others must be too. AND one other thing. It's been my experience that run-of-the-mill Proof singles, NOT the really exceptional coins, are among the worst buys that collectors can make. The coins are often not worth what collectors pay for them and never will be at least within the next few years, and the coins have a bad record of "going bad" in the most common albums that collectors use. When they go bad, they often not worth a lot more than face value.
<< <i>... and the coins have a bad record of "going bad" in the most common albums that collectors use. When they go bad, they often not worth a lot more than face value. >>
It's very true that damaged proofs are almost impossible to sell. Even if you
have a nice roll of proofs many buyers will reject substandard pieces.
Many of the proofs in circulation appear to have turned bad which would be
consistent with collectors spending them rather than retailers or others.
Any percentage you like would be a good answer. Impossible to know.
How many have been destroyed/lost to fires & floods? Who knows....
Only thing you can state for sure is that for every year sets were made, the number of sets surviving is lower than what was issued.