Pull of a Lifetime: Donruss Timeless Treasures Babe Ruth 1/1
TCC
Posts: 162
Thought that some of you would enjoy reading this TCC exclusive story on a recent pull and current eBay auction...
The Boston Red Sox last won the World Series in 1918. Two years later, they sold the contract of a young pitcher and batter - Babe Ruth - to the New York Yankees. Since then, the Yankees have won 26 World Series titles - while the Red Sox have remained winless. This is why baseball fans worldwide have come to believe in the "Curse of the Bambino."
For one collector from Plymouth, Massachusetts, just 40 minutes south of Boston, that curse seems to have had no effect, however. Rick Antoniotti, from America's Hometown, recently pulled one of the more unique and interesting, modern trading cards made for America's Pasttime of baseball. The card features baseball's first slugger, George Herman "Babe" Ruth.
To read the full story behind the incredible pull including quotes from the collector and Donruss/Playoff, visit http://www.tradingcardcentral.com/articles/2004/05/25_001_001.php.
-Bob
The Boston Red Sox last won the World Series in 1918. Two years later, they sold the contract of a young pitcher and batter - Babe Ruth - to the New York Yankees. Since then, the Yankees have won 26 World Series titles - while the Red Sox have remained winless. This is why baseball fans worldwide have come to believe in the "Curse of the Bambino."
For one collector from Plymouth, Massachusetts, just 40 minutes south of Boston, that curse seems to have had no effect, however. Rick Antoniotti, from America's Hometown, recently pulled one of the more unique and interesting, modern trading cards made for America's Pasttime of baseball. The card features baseball's first slugger, George Herman "Babe" Ruth.
To read the full story behind the incredible pull including quotes from the collector and Donruss/Playoff, visit http://www.tradingcardcentral.com/articles/2004/05/25_001_001.php.
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.
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Comments
One interesting thing though, the seller writes in his description "THERE IS ALMOST NO OTHER WRITING ON THIS CUT... " There is a loop at the bottom of the auto and big fat loop through the "R" in Ruth. Not taking anything away from the card or the seller. I am JEALOUS! Absolutely gorgeous, pull of a lifetime, no doubt.
Nice to see someone pull something sweet. I got a crappy Jose Canseco Jersey #/88.
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of put the nicer one on the 3 swatch card and not the 2. Welp Timelines is officially dead!
JS
<< <i>That cut sig is awful! >>
Kevin
I agree! They could've waited for a better cut sig. But, I gotta tell ya - I'm on such a cold streak (last sigs cliff floyd and vazquez) in the past two years that I woulda taken one scribbled in crayon!
Mike
<< <i>I think this card is on ebay as we speak. Currently over $18K with reserve not met. >>
Yes, it is. The current bid is $22,100 with the reserve still not met.
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.
<< <i>Welp Timelines is officially dead! >>
Actually, Timeless Treasures, not Timelines. Either way, I agree the cut sig looks awful, but the card is a sweet modern issue. Not for 20K, though...
(or in a much larger collection of Many different cards and autos!)
Joe
They said they got "over 2000 pieces" out of the home jersey. Sadly, it's one of only 3 known home-pinstriped jerseys to still exist. They paid 268 grand for that jersey, that makes each swatch worth about $134 each. Sad to see it cut up, but on the other side, it sure would be cool to own it, it's as close as you'll ever get. It will go in products for the next several years according to Donruss. I would imagine Leaf, Donruss both will use pieces. So the real question then is, will the allure of this card wear off after a new 1/1 from Leaf and a 1/1 from Donruss get pulled and they are the same damn card? They shoulda given away the whole jersey like UD did a couple years back with different jerseys and bats and such. Now THAT WOULDA BEEN A PULL!
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BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
Collectable
<< <i>I wonder if the jersey still exists after they cut all the swatches away. Think about it - a Babe Ruth jersey that's only about 5% there, kind of like a fishnet looking thing. It would look sexy on my girlfriend. >>
WHA???
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swatches? I don't think so. The higest up on the authentication ladder are the companies, until
proved fake (and what grading company is going to do that?), they are safe.
If you remember that Lebron James sold for roughly the same price, it makes this look like a steal.
Come on, like there hasn't been some sick auction for some highly graded card from some vintage set?
Id rather own this card than someones opinion!
JS
<< <i>i dont think anybody should ever be allowed to own a Babe Ruth jersey. I think they should be as illegal as murder. They are sacred relics that should only be kept under lock and key and the average human being should NEVER be able to set eyes upon it, much less own a piece of it. >>
Why would someone spend that kind of money for cut up items on cardboard when they could have had 90% of the actual items for a fraction of the cost. A Ted Williams Sweet Spot Signature card selling for over $5k when they could have had the whole ball for $300? I would like any modern collectors to give me an example of a modern novelty card (ie game used bat, jersey, etc) that was issued in the last 3 years that has retained it's value from the time the card hit the market. The people that are paying the rediculous amounts of money on these are basicly just throwing their money away.
I would bet my personal collection of vintage game bats, cards and autographs (worth more than 20 times what this card will bring) that this same card if sold on Ebay in 5 years would not even sell for half of what it might sell for now.
That is the problem as long as these people spend these enormous amounts of money on these chase cards the companies will continue to produce them and sell the packs for over inflated prices.
Todd
<< <i>Anybody who wants to own a tiny scrap like that knowing full well that a real jersey needed to be destroyed to make it is an idiot. >>
Hojo
I can see your point and this has got to be one of the more controversial products in the collectibles industry. The card companies have rationalized this thing right into the packs! Having said that, I don't really mind being the forum idiot as it makes others feel a lot better about themselves. But, you never know:
Come the millennium, month 12,
In the home of greatest power,
The PSA forum idiot will come forth
To be acclaimed the leader.
--- Nostradamus in 1555
Mike
<< <i>We can only hope they been fooling us all along and have the jersey stashed someplace in perfect shape. You can forgive them for that. >>
If I were the guy spending the $25K, I don't think I would be too forgiving...
1) person enters card store and reads the press material for Donruss TT...he sees a Ruth 1/1 jersey auto
cut card and becomes interested.
2) He buys a few packs and rips them
3) He pulls a Stan Musial
4) He becomes interested in Stan and types in Musial into a search engine at home
5) Up comes the Naxos site with a picture of a 1948 Stan Musial that one of you boneheads has
up for auction
6) He buys the card because it is beautiful
7) He looks for others because he is hooked........
If any of you think that this isn't good for the hobby then you aren't thinking about the big picture. Today's
modern collector is tomorrow's vintage collector. If you don't MAKE people open this stuff then they
will never learn who the greats are. You can thank the higher prices of vintage cards to products that make
you all sick like Donruss TT, UD Cuts and Topps Retired.
Who is more to blame.. those who buy Ruth jerseys or those who SELL them? Greed will always win
out.
RuthFan- I enjoy your points of view and respect them,but people collect new things now. No offense
but everyone has autographed balls and many of them are fake, people trust UD and their sweet spot
autos many times over some other COA. In todays world the card is actually worth MORE than the
whole ball because of the format. They are beautful cards AND they are considered safe. You only have
to look at top 5 sale cards in the beckett every month to see modern cards that ALWAYS retain their
value. Sure there will be more "1/1" made, but these arn't cards that fly around ebay every month. They
are bought and then you don't see them anymore...permanant collections my friend, it only makes
the next one more rare and sought after.
I look at it this way. Sure DLP is going to sell products as long as they are offering a chance at the
hobby meca (Ruth's jersey). Can you fault them for that? All the companies cut up and destroy
sacred artifacts, but I like the idea of giving the average collector a shot at owning a piece of history.
Why can't the average fan, the same fan who build baseball, have a crack at these? Are they reserved
just for the filty rich who can buy them as some fancy auction?
I would like to believe that the puller of this card was just some guy who loved the sport and loved
the hobby, and now he has an amazing story to pass on to his kids.
Now that doesn't make me sick!
JS
<< <i>
I would like to believe that the puller of this card was just some guy who loved the sport and loved
the hobby, and now he has an amazing story to pass on to his kids.
>>
I think the puller of this card would rather have $25000
<< <i>Today's modern collector is tomorrow's vintage collector. If you don't MAKE people open this stuff then they
will never learn who the greats are....but I like the idea of giving the average collector a shot at owning a piece of history.
Why can't the average fan, the same fan who build baseball, have a crack at these? Are they reserved
just for the filty rich who can buy them as some fancy auction? >>
Those are some great points fellas.
1968 Topps Hockey PSA7+
#1 Ben Troupe Collector
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<< <i>I think the puller of this card would rather have $25000 >>
Koby
Now that would be an amazin story to tell your kids! But that is still in keeping with what JoeStalin is saying. If I pulled the card I would be celebratin and then puttin it up on ebay!
<< <i>Now that doesn't make me sick! >>
Kevin
I hear ya buddy. But I'm a fearin' that you can lead a horse to water but ya can't make them buy Timeless Treasures!
Phantom of the 70's
<< <i>hmmmm...
1) person enters card store and reads the press material for Donruss TT...he sees a Ruth 1/1 jersey auto
cut card and becomes interested.
2) He buys a few packs and rips them
3) He pulls a Stan Musial
4) He becomes interested in Stan and types in Musial into a search engine at home
5) Up comes the Naxos site with a picture of a 1948 Stan Musial that one of you boneheads has
up for auction
6) He buys the card because it is beautiful
7) He looks for others because he is hooked........
If any of you think that this isn't good for the hobby then you aren't thinking about the big picture. Today's
modern collector is tomorrow's vintage collector. If you don't MAKE people open this stuff then they
will never learn who the greats are. You can thank the higher prices of vintage cards to products that make
you all sick like Donruss TT, UD Cuts and Topps Retired.
Who is more to blame.. those who buy Ruth jerseys or those who SELL them? Greed will always win
out.
>>
'nuff said
Joe, let me start off by saying I hope you are wrong by meaning that today's modern collector is tomorrow's vintage collector. Most modern collectors will see that the cards that they purchase for high dollars now and will only be worth a fraction five years down the road is NOT good for the hobby. I know some people will defend it and say it's not all about the money, bullcrap because if it wasn't about the money their would not be any $20, $50 and $100 packs put out by companies today. The card companies today are running a sort of lottery. You grab the "prize" card and sell it right away and make some good money. Hold onto for over a year just like a lottery ticket and your pretty much left with nothing. Go in a card shop or to a show and watch a majority of the kids and even some adults and watch them open pack after pack searching for "chase" cards. Most of the time that I have seen is that they just leave all of the cards for the dealer if they don't get any good pulls. It's all about getting that one big pull.
The higher prices for the vintage cards can't be compared or blamed for the new sets and the woeful values that today's cards retain. Vintage cards gained collectible value over time when most collectors gave them no monetary value. Today's card companies are trying to make instant man made collectibles.
Vintage collectors that do spend big dollars for the highest grade vintage cards available are for the most part purchasing for investment purposes. Sure there are some that are inflating their egos, but investment is still part of the picture. They purchase due to the rarity and condition of the card lasting over several decades. For example, If a collector owns a PSA 10 1933 Sport Kings Ty Cobb, which is the only one of its kind, they are betting that their card will be the only one like it for a long time if not ever. The only way to see another one is for 71 year old pristine raw example make it's way into the hobby instead of today's companies just deciding to print more.
The scary thing about this is the new generation of collectors have been spoiled by the card companies with these game used and other chase cards. They continually have to top what they did before and they are running out of gimicks. Kids are not satisfied with just "regular" issure cards anymore. I personally think that it is too far gone to turn back but hopefully I am wrong.
Todd
Just because these cards come from Upper Deck, Donruss, Topps and whoever DOES NOT mean that they are all safe. These card companies are getting their items for their cards from most of the same places that everybody else is. Sure alot of the prime cards are coming from well documented auction houses and collections but I know of several collectors that have sold card companies items to be put on cards. I myself have even sold two or three game used modern bats in recent years that were eventually cut up and used on cards. I certainly do not believe that every game used card put out by these companies have been 100% authentic.
Yeah, I would put alot of value in a company that tries to pass of a swatch of a jersey as game used when the player wore the jersey less than thirty seconds at a photo shoot. How about those jersey swatches that come out with different colors than what the teams actually wear. I have seen that several times.
I would much rather trust the opionions of Dave Bushing, Dan Knoll and James Spence over Upper Deck.
Let's see should I take $25k and spend it on a Babe Ruth cut signature that has been cut and pasted on cardboard with some swatches of cloth or do I take that money and purchase an actual documented whole intact Ted Williams or Joe Dimaggio game used bat with about 10K left over.
It just does not seem very good judgement to spend thousands of dollars for a cut up baseball leather on cardboard rather than spend less than a third for an actual full sized forensic documented ball with the same signature.
Joe, you still did not answer my question. Name me one modern novelty card made in the last five years that has retained it's value over an extended period of time.
You answered your own question long ago. The sweetspot autos have actually gone up in recent
years, the key cards, Dimaggio, Mantle and Sosa sell for amazing prices when they come up for
auctions. Sure there are a lot of sets out there but there are constant winners like Sweet Spot,
Greats of the Game and UD Legendary Cuts. If those cards sell for even 10% more than they did
a year or so ago, what will they sell for 10 years down the road? You can't think there will be
many more Mantle autos hitting products, how about Mathewson cut sigs? You know our resident
Munson cut collector show up every once in a while to still tell us this modern card is still worth
big time money? That was a few years ago wasn't it?
...and what difference is our lotto- trying to pull that one big card and throwing the rest away any
different from your lotto of sending only the nicest vintage cards in for grading and selling the rest
in your dollar bin? Maybe what sickens me is when someone tells me that a card that is three
quarters of a century old isn't nice because it is a bit off-centered or has a crease? Didn't grading
start off as authentication? Now its all in the number, sets have to have the same grade, big money
if its an 8, yet 8 OC sucks.....come on, don't pretend that greed doesn't reach the hearts of vintage
collectors too!
If you have never been in the shoes of modern collection and never pulled up a chair to the black jack
table, then why try to understand it? I would rather have a piece of Ruth's jersey and you would
rather have PSA 10 52 Nuxhall, nothing can make us understand the others logic.
We all have to start somewhere, hopefully newbies won't start on this board!
JS
Jeff
Great debate over the big picture of our hobby and the never-ending duel between vintage and modern collectors. Thank you! I wanted to post my own thoughts, but it would simply be redundant. I agrre with those who believe in preserving the game's history for posterity, not slicing it up for profit.
All I can say is thank God I live 4 hours from C-Town! I don't need to see no steenking swatches on cards! I urge you all to go visit the Hall and be inspired by the real history, sights, and sounds of the game. You'd never look at a cut-up jersey card the same way again.
One question... if this buyer is willing to fork over $25K for Babe's flotsam and jetsam, why not buy a real Ruth auto'd baseball? Something he actually held in his own hand one time. I know that's what I'd do with that money if I wanted Ruth memorabilia.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I would post my opinion on a lot of this, but like Con stated, it would be repeating what has already been said and just another "me too" post.
I guess my biggest question is why is there a battle between vintage and modern? Is it just so we have our own Cowboys v. Redskins - Yankees v. Sox - Ford v. Chevy? Does there have to be a rivalry to make it interesting?
I don't know that I speak for anyone else when I say this, and I'm certainly in the minority, but personally I love vintage cards, though I spend almost every penny of my money on modern. I don't hold anything against any vintage collector or any modern collector. There are a lot of collections that we may question the appeal of, but if the person collecting it gets enjoyment out of it....who is it hurting?
Vintage are the cards that to an extent, I grew up on. I say that a little tongue in cheek as I am only 27, however, I remember "ooh-ing & ahh-ing" at a 53 Satchell Paige, a 68 Ryan. Hell, I remember my 54 T Monte Irvin was my first vintage card I ever owned. I think I got about 400 bucks in trade for it cuz it was the only one at school!
Once I had the money, I purchased just about every vintage rookie I could get my hands on. I didn't care so much about grade, I just wanted to own these pieces that I'd always oogled over as a kid but could never even hope to attain. I picked up Killebrew and Koufax, Maris, Musial and Mantle (52Bowman was as close as I got on him though). I had PSA slab all of them. I got a lot of 3's and 5's and a couple of 6 & 7 cards. That wasn't the point for me though. I did it, because I enjoyed it and it put a smile on my face. Then I met a vintage guy who asked me why I had, or even wanted so many low grade rookies. "What's the point of that?" he questioned...
"Nobody will ever buy those. And why did you get them graded?" So he's a jacka$$, he can't help it. I did sell off all those cards shortly after that too. Not because he was right, but because he said it. They lost their allure to me. Sure my Koufax was a PSA 3 and nobody would ever buy that for their registry. But who cares?
I think the big picture here is that we can all agree to disagree on a lot of topics, but this discussion is very relevent to a much bigger picture....Our hobby as a whole.
Yes, it's blasphemous to cut up a known 1/3 Ruth jersey, my statements earlier were made playing "devils advocate" Would I love to pull that card. YES! Would any of you love to pull that card. YES! Would everyone of us sell it for $25k if we had the chance. YES! Would we all run out and buy modern...Not a chance. Would we all run out and buy vintage. Probably not.
This just happens to be another example of the card companies collecting money and trying to one up themselves and each other every year. Ruthfan is right when he says that this same card will be produced again. In fact we'll probably see another 1/1 by this fall and a dozen #/5 or 10 in the next 6 months. They did get 2000 swatches after all.
Sorry for the scatter-brained post. I get a little passionate sometimes and my fingers can't keep up with my brain.
...and to think. I was only going to post that I agreed with JS. Guess I had to qualify it first.
Edited to say that I did make this another me too post. Sorry you'll never get that time back that you spent reading this diatribe.
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1) person enters card store and reads the press material for Donruss TT...he sees a Ruth 1/1 jersey auto
cut card and becomes interested.
2) He buys a few packs and rips them
3) He pulls a Stan Musial
4) He becomes interested in Stan and types in Musial into a search engine at home
5) Up comes the Naxos site with a picture of a 1948 Stan Musial that one of you boneheads has
up for auction
6) He buys the card because it is beautiful
7) He looks for others because he is hooked........
If any of you think that this isn't good for the hobby then you aren't thinking about the big picture. Today's
modern collector is tomorrow's vintage collector. If you don't MAKE people open this stuff then they
will never learn who the greats are. You can thank the higher prices of vintage cards to products that make
you all sick like Donruss TT, UD Cuts and Topps Retired.>
If it takes destroying vintage items to create more vintage collectors, then we don't want them to join our family. If they are willing to buy a piece of a destroyed vintage item, then they really aren't vintage collectors. They're vintage investors.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. >>
Great, send me your most prized collectable and I'll cut it up and send pieces of it to all our modern collector friends on this forum. This should instantly turn them into passionate vintage collectors.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i> If they are willing to buy a piece of a destroyed vintage item, then they really aren't vintage collectors. They're vintage investors. >>
i dont know how you can say that. i mostly collect certain players, all for different reasons. i sell alot of stuff on ebay, but rarely will you see me sell anything pertaining to the players i collect.. i collect modern & vintage players.. I collect Roger Maris stuff (new & old) because he was my dad's favorite player, and hearing my dad's stories sparked my interest in Roger Maris. I have several vintage Maris cards, but I also have several newer Maris cards (yes, some of them are even *GASP* Game Used swatches/bats).. ok, call me an investor.. well, if thats the case, i've also "invested" alot of money in RON GANT CARDS.. lol.. is that "investing" or collecting? i really dont see much long term investment in Ron Gant cards, but I collect them because I've met the guy a couple times, the first time in 1988 his rookie season.. sure, the day might come that I decide to sell off my personal collection, but when i do, it will only be because I need the money.. and I doubt my Ron Gant "investments" will bring back the money I spent on them..
Guess we'll see what ends up happening with the card now. By the way, the highest bidder was the same person who originally sold the 2 unopened cases to the collector.
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.
<< <i>
Great, send me your most prized collectable and I'll cut it up and send pieces of it to all our modern collector friends on this forum. This should instantly turn them into passionate vintage collectors.
>>
First, let me say that I really enjoyed the debate that this thread started. It's amazing to see the different type of collectors that are active on different hobby web sites.
I was curious though as to what some of you think should be done to increase interest in vintage cards and memorabilia? If the current game-used, etc. trends are not going to work in your opinion, then what will work? When you look around the various hobby sites, the emphasis is on modern with little attention to vintage. Plus, the use of the Internet (especially eBay) has increasingly reduced the role of the card shop and shows where many collectors would have first been exposed to vintage.
Where do we head to let newer collectors know about this entire "other area" of the hobby?
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.
The seller has relisted the card on eBay (assuming with a lower reserve) about 4 hours ago. Click here to see the new listing.
There are currently 3 bids with a current high bid of $2025. The new auction ends on 6/9/04.
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.
The seller is a little too ambitious with his reserve. I would definitely sell that card for $24000 or $15000 for that matter
The 2nd auction ended with a high bid of $19,900. However, the reserve was still not met. It is not known what the seller plans to do next.
This is another example of how high-money cards often need to sell the first time. Otherwise, the bidding tends to die down on later attempts to sell it.
-Bob
TradingCardCentral.com - THE resource for trading card collectors.
TradingCardCentral.com covers sports cards, non-sports cards and collectibles and features the latest industry news, articles, product reviews, forums, giveaways and a growing number of collector resources.