PAN (Pittsburgh) show report
kranky
Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
First, I should say that I can't really address what's hot/what's not because I was working at PTVETTER's table most of the time Friday and Saturday. Sorry, since I know that's what a lot of you are interested in.
The show had about 130 dealers with about 15% of those specializing in foreign and ancients. This is the sixth time I've worked at the twice-yearly shows, and what stood out to me is this one had the least public attendance, and the least number of people coming up to the table to sell coins. Usually there are a handful of folks at each show who have a grocery bag of proof sets, old Morgans, junk silver, etc., to sell, but not a single one this show.
Got to meet and chat with board member johnk who came to the show. I don't think I saw any other collector board members. (Ohio guys, where were you?
) Had a great time talking with njcoincrank and discussing some very cool things he had with him. Man, never pass up a chance to see what wild thing he has in his case.
My brother brought my nephew to the show for the YN session - it was my nephew's first show and I've been trying to get him interested. I think he will be hooked now - everyone was so nice to him! The show has a big box of coins and each YN can grab one handful when entering. At the YN session run by PAN, each YN was allowed to choose one coin book and one auction catalog from a large selection donated by PAN members, a handful of recycled empty flips, and another handful of coins. PTVETTER gave him a 1976 proof set and a 1976 AU Ike. (Thanks, Pat!) I recently gave him an album (US type) to start storing his coins in and he wanted to complete it all in one day.
He went up to a dealer's junk box of 2x2s and the dealer told him everything was half-price for him - so he got about a 6-8 obsolete US coins. I can't say enough about the 90-minute YN session run by PAN - he loved it.
I bought him an AG 1853 half-dime with arrows and told him that if he can tell me what the arrows are for by the time the ANA rolls around, I'll get him another coin to plug a hole in the album.
Interesting things I saw on the floor - four(!) SS Central America restrikes at one table, next to a 1944 Lincoln on a steel planchet that was about VG. How many people handled that coin before it found its way into a collector's hands? Also saw a vest pocket dealer going table to table selling "replacement" envelopes for late 50s/early 60s proof sets. (quotes are mine). A smaller dealer had a impressive case full of CC gold and smaller CA- and NV-made silver ingots from the 1800's. Also noticed that there were many, many more SEGS holders than I've ever seen before.
Had a chat with a guy who was named in the ACG lawsuit. The legal bills have started coming in, and they ain't small. What a shame. I truly feel for those folks.
Witnessed an interesting exchange where a buyer was complaining about some hairlining on a nice AU Bust half while the dealer explained that it was an AU coin, and some marks are to be expected. The buyer kept insisting that the price should come down because of the marks, but in the end it was no deal.
One of the high points for me was having the chance to talk indepth with two newer collectors who were starting off on the wrong path. One had just bought the 1999-2003 proof clad state quarter sets on TV for $250! Luckily he was within the 30-day return period and he was able to buy them at the show for about half of that, and can return his TV purchase. Another was starting into collecting with Peace dollars and had bought a few (raw, unfortunately) from some of the big mail-order joints. It was his first show and he was stunned to see what a real MS63-65 coin looked like. He knew right away he had gotten screwed, but he was determined to learn so I got to spend about 20 minutes giving grading tips and how to approach selecting coins.
I'll close with this. Probably the most unusual moment of the day was when an older gentleman came up to the table and when we started to chat he told me he was a retired dealer who used to have a store. (Remember, I am behind a dealer's table wearing a dealer badge, so he didn't see any need to hold back, I guess.) He started to reminisce and told me a story which I'd like to relate in his own words (pretty close, anyway).
"I was successful because I knew how to buy coins. I made the shop owners rich. That's where the money is - in the buying. You know you can't pay top dollar and charge the lowest prices in town. No one can make it that way. I knew how to buy. A lady came in one day and said, 'I have a coin but I don't want to sell it.' I said, 'Then how can I help you?' She said she wanted to trade it for silver dollars. You might not believe it, but she was holding a nice 1878-CC five. I asked her what she wanted to trade for, and she said she wanted eight silver dollars. I told her she could pick any eight from my case she wanted. Then I called one of the shop's owners and told him to come down to the shop right away. I gave him the five so he didn't have to share it with his partners and I never even wrote it up. I didn't like the other partners anyway. I think he sold it for ten grand.
"And see this ring? (It had a $5 Indian.) One time I was at a show where I didn't have a table when another dealer asked me to work his table while he went to lunch. While I was covering for him a guy came up and pulled out two big handfuls of loose gold coins to sell - two and a halfs, fives, eagles and double eagles. I was good at sizing people up. I could tell what they would accept right away. The guy was with his girlfriend and they didn't look like they knew much about coins. The girlfriend looked nervous and I figured the coins were stolen. So I offered him double face for the whole pile. He said, 'Hey, these are gold, aren't they?' And I said, 'Yes, but they aren't worth much. You could take them to someone else, but I pay cash and don't require any identification.' See, I wanted him to think other people would make the deal complicated. I knew the girlfriend would push him to take the money and sure enough she told him to just take the money so they could go. So when the other dealer came back I showed him what I bought and when I told him I only paid double face, he gave me this five and I had a ring made out of it."
Geez, how do some people sleep at night?
The show had about 130 dealers with about 15% of those specializing in foreign and ancients. This is the sixth time I've worked at the twice-yearly shows, and what stood out to me is this one had the least public attendance, and the least number of people coming up to the table to sell coins. Usually there are a handful of folks at each show who have a grocery bag of proof sets, old Morgans, junk silver, etc., to sell, but not a single one this show.
Got to meet and chat with board member johnk who came to the show. I don't think I saw any other collector board members. (Ohio guys, where were you?
) Had a great time talking with njcoincrank and discussing some very cool things he had with him. Man, never pass up a chance to see what wild thing he has in his case. My brother brought my nephew to the show for the YN session - it was my nephew's first show and I've been trying to get him interested. I think he will be hooked now - everyone was so nice to him! The show has a big box of coins and each YN can grab one handful when entering. At the YN session run by PAN, each YN was allowed to choose one coin book and one auction catalog from a large selection donated by PAN members, a handful of recycled empty flips, and another handful of coins. PTVETTER gave him a 1976 proof set and a 1976 AU Ike. (Thanks, Pat!) I recently gave him an album (US type) to start storing his coins in and he wanted to complete it all in one day.
He went up to a dealer's junk box of 2x2s and the dealer told him everything was half-price for him - so he got about a 6-8 obsolete US coins. I can't say enough about the 90-minute YN session run by PAN - he loved it. I bought him an AG 1853 half-dime with arrows and told him that if he can tell me what the arrows are for by the time the ANA rolls around, I'll get him another coin to plug a hole in the album.
Interesting things I saw on the floor - four(!) SS Central America restrikes at one table, next to a 1944 Lincoln on a steel planchet that was about VG. How many people handled that coin before it found its way into a collector's hands? Also saw a vest pocket dealer going table to table selling "replacement" envelopes for late 50s/early 60s proof sets. (quotes are mine). A smaller dealer had a impressive case full of CC gold and smaller CA- and NV-made silver ingots from the 1800's. Also noticed that there were many, many more SEGS holders than I've ever seen before.
Had a chat with a guy who was named in the ACG lawsuit. The legal bills have started coming in, and they ain't small. What a shame. I truly feel for those folks.
Witnessed an interesting exchange where a buyer was complaining about some hairlining on a nice AU Bust half while the dealer explained that it was an AU coin, and some marks are to be expected. The buyer kept insisting that the price should come down because of the marks, but in the end it was no deal.
One of the high points for me was having the chance to talk indepth with two newer collectors who were starting off on the wrong path. One had just bought the 1999-2003 proof clad state quarter sets on TV for $250! Luckily he was within the 30-day return period and he was able to buy them at the show for about half of that, and can return his TV purchase. Another was starting into collecting with Peace dollars and had bought a few (raw, unfortunately) from some of the big mail-order joints. It was his first show and he was stunned to see what a real MS63-65 coin looked like. He knew right away he had gotten screwed, but he was determined to learn so I got to spend about 20 minutes giving grading tips and how to approach selecting coins.
I'll close with this. Probably the most unusual moment of the day was when an older gentleman came up to the table and when we started to chat he told me he was a retired dealer who used to have a store. (Remember, I am behind a dealer's table wearing a dealer badge, so he didn't see any need to hold back, I guess.) He started to reminisce and told me a story which I'd like to relate in his own words (pretty close, anyway).
"I was successful because I knew how to buy coins. I made the shop owners rich. That's where the money is - in the buying. You know you can't pay top dollar and charge the lowest prices in town. No one can make it that way. I knew how to buy. A lady came in one day and said, 'I have a coin but I don't want to sell it.' I said, 'Then how can I help you?' She said she wanted to trade it for silver dollars. You might not believe it, but she was holding a nice 1878-CC five. I asked her what she wanted to trade for, and she said she wanted eight silver dollars. I told her she could pick any eight from my case she wanted. Then I called one of the shop's owners and told him to come down to the shop right away. I gave him the five so he didn't have to share it with his partners and I never even wrote it up. I didn't like the other partners anyway. I think he sold it for ten grand.
"And see this ring? (It had a $5 Indian.) One time I was at a show where I didn't have a table when another dealer asked me to work his table while he went to lunch. While I was covering for him a guy came up and pulled out two big handfuls of loose gold coins to sell - two and a halfs, fives, eagles and double eagles. I was good at sizing people up. I could tell what they would accept right away. The guy was with his girlfriend and they didn't look like they knew much about coins. The girlfriend looked nervous and I figured the coins were stolen. So I offered him double face for the whole pile. He said, 'Hey, these are gold, aren't they?' And I said, 'Yes, but they aren't worth much. You could take them to someone else, but I pay cash and don't require any identification.' See, I wanted him to think other people would make the deal complicated. I knew the girlfriend would push him to take the money and sure enough she told him to just take the money so they could go. So when the other dealer came back I showed him what I bought and when I told him I only paid double face, he gave me this five and I had a ring made out of it."
Geez, how do some people sleep at night?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
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Comments
<< <i>Geez, how do some people sleep at night? >>
Look like he slept great..
ditto and thanks for sharing
Marc
<< <i>Then I called one of the shop's owners and told him to come down to the shop right away. I gave him the five so he didn't have to share it with his partners and I never even wrote it up. I didn't like the other partners anyway. I think he sold it for ten grand. >>
What an honest guy......
Cameron Kiefer
We will make a one day trip to the Ohio Show in Columbus this coming Saturday.
Gary
roadrunner