What about ACG grading?
HTubbs
Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭
Well I already know NTC grading is terrible but how is ACG's?I've mostly heard bad comments about it.I just bought a 1918-D .05 VF-35 and a 1927-S .25 VF-25 slabbed by ACG through mail order and I'm wondering what the coins will actually grade.I already know your opinion,Don the "Numismanic", I might have to get one of those plates for me if the coins aren't properly graded!
0
Comments
Ray
Well, there are a LOT of opinions here on ACG! ACG has filed a lawsuit against several people for defamation, but, since this is a free country, we can speak our minds in forums like this. Personally, I consider ACG slabs to be the same as raw coins.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
I do not seem to have any ACG holdered coins in my collection
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
al h.
You got that right, Fatman!
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Russ, NCNE
I would not buy an ACG slabbed coin. That's my opinion. You're free to do as you please, of course.
I will not say how I feel about ACG, or what I think it really stands for, but this story should give you the information you require.
<< <i>ACG is indeed an abbreviation for the ANA's course titled Advanced Coin Grading. honest!!
al h.
keets, no farting in church!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
Fortune Teller Newsletter
<< <i>What about ACG grading? >>
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you see a nice coin in an AGC holder and you like it then buy it. If it's not up to your standards try another TPG. They all holder dogs at one time or another. Some are definately more consistant at it than others.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Are you asking for information about ACG and their grading standards? Or are you fishing for more Defendants to add to the pending ACG lawsuit?
In regard to your question about Accugrade here's a direct quote from Diane Hager regarding Accugrade "Standards".
BY MS. HAGER:
11 Q. Are you aware that these coins have not been graded by
12 MS grading standards?
13 A. I don't know what that means. I don't know what your
14 question means. [this is the witness answering MS. Hager's "question"]
15 Q. Well, Mr. [xxx] is representing them as having been
16 graded by MS grading standards and has done a real
17 nice report here, but he's comparing apples to
18 oranges.
19 MS. HAGER: This is a Accugrade photo
20 slab.
* * * *
[MS. HAGER: - asking a different witness a "question"]
16 Q. Okay. Can I -- you're talking -- now -- we might as
17 well get into this now. You're talking apples and
18 oranges. You're talking about ACG Accugrade photo
19 slabs and you're comparing them to MS grading
20 standards. The Accugrade photo slab is not graded by
21 MS grading standards and therefore can't be compared
22 to MS grading standards. It's comparing apples to
23 oranges. It doesn't say anywhere on this coin that it
24 is graded by MS standards. It's graded by a standard
25 developed by Alan Hager. It's a strike and lus --
-----------
57
1 based on strike and luster. There is no MS grade
2 anywhere on this coin, it does not rep -- Accugrade
3 never represented an Accugrade photo slab as an MS
4 coin. We have never sold photo slabs ACG coins and
5 represented them to anybody. And if a telemarketer
6 chooses to take a product whether it be mine or yours
7 and misrepresent it to the public, how should I --
8 why -- how can I be held responsible for that?
The above quoted statements were made by Diane Hager at the 2003 Charlotte ANA hearing held on Thursday, March 20, 2003. According to Ms. Hager, Accugrade uses a different standard than what others use in grading coins. You can draw your own conclusions from what Ms. Hager says. But it seems that a reasonable interpretation of what Ms. Hager is saying is that an Accugrade "number grade" is NOT the equivalent to an MS number grade that is the generally accepted standard and relied upon by other coin collectors and dealers. This is so, according to Ms. Hager, because Alan Hager has developed a totally different grading standard. Therefore you have to understand Mr. Hager's grading standards to know what the Accugrade "grading number" actually means. Apparently, only Mr. Hager knows what an Accugrade coin graded "65" means, because they specifically say it's NOT the same as a coin graded "MS65" using the commonly accepted grading standards used by the other grading services.
By way of example (and as a HYPOTHETICAL example only): IF Mr. Hager uses luster as one grading criteria, and with his grading standard, luster created by whizzing or burnishing a coin is the same as luster resulting from the minting of a coin, than, in that HYPOTHETICAL example a wizzed coin would be very lusterous and could achieve a grade of 65 - NOT MS65, but Accugrade 65. You would have to know whether or not, under MR. Hager's grading standards, ALL luster is the same. The same HYPOTHETICAL example would apply to toning: IF all toning is considered the same whether naturally created over time from the specific storage conditions, or as a result of heat and chemicals used to either "create" a toned appearance, or to cover up scratches, lines and other flaws, then a toned Accugrade graded coin could be either real natural toning or intentionally created artificial toning, and you would have to know, based on Mr. Hager's grading standards, whether he distinguishes between these two significantly different kinds of toning.
The difficulty is this: Depending upon the standards that Mr. Hager uses, you could buy an Accugrade coin, that HYPOTHETICALLY, if cracked out and submitted raw to any of the several major grading services, could end up having the same MS grade assigned as the "number grade" used by Accugrade (it might even, HYPOTHETICALLY, be graded higher
If you choose to examine lots of Accugrade coins and compare them with PCGS, NGC, ICG and ANACS coins, you will be able to determine for yourself whether Mr. Hager does, (as Ms. Hager claims) use standards that are different than the standards that other grading services utilize. As a collector, you will have to make your own determination as to whether Accugrade standards, whatever they may be, are acceptable for the coins you buy for your own collection. Like most things in life, you have choices, and it's your prerogative to make those choices as you deem appropriate to your collecting interests. As they say on ebay: "Caveat Emptor".
With regard to my own collecting interests, I make it a practice to carefully examine ALL coins that I have an interest in, and I only buy the coins that I feel are acceptable to my collecting standards. I buy COINS for my coin collection, NOT plastic. The opinion on the paper insert may be helpful in my decision as to whether I am willing to pay the asking price for the coin, but it is not the sole criteria that I would ever rely upon in purchasing any coin. Learn to grade,and buy coins not plastic - it's a good prescription for obtaining a nice coin collection.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
I'm puzzled by how someone who has membership in the ANA, PCGS, and NGC, among others, would not have been exposed to any info or opinions about ACG??
I think that is the funniest thing I've heard all day!
<< <i>Member:ANA,FUN,CONECA,PCGS,NGC
I'm puzzled by how someone who has membership in the ANA, PCGS, and NGC, among others, would not have been exposed to any info or opinions about ACG??
Maybe he's from the "old school" and didn't like slabbed coins, and now he's decided to "jump in" to the slabbed coin market. You've gotta start somewhere if you want to get an education and learn about the different aspects of slabbed coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
He jumped in by becoming a member of PCGS and NGC, but somehow was totally ignorant of ACG?
<< <i>Well I already know NTC grading is terrible but how is ACG's?I've mostly heard bad comments about it.I just bought a 1918-D .05 VF-35 and a 1927-S .25 VF-25 slabbed by ACG through mail order and I'm wondering what the coins will actually grade.I already know your opinion,Don the "Numismanic", I might have to get one of those plates for me if the coins aren't properly graded! >>
Only pcgs for me! They are the best! PCGS coins sell for more, and that's why they are be best! If it's not in a pcgs holder, then it's not worth pcgs money!
K S
I only buy ACG slabs. All you PCGS puppets are suckers!
SUCKERS I SAY!
FOOLS! ALL OF YOU!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>.I already know your opinion,Don the "Numismanic", >>
It's that obvious huh?
Don
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
The grading standards deviating from my own grading standards have generally been.
PCGS 1 point lower on MS60-MS65 coins than what I would grade coins at. MS65 for me would be MS64 at PCGS.
PCGS 1 to 2 points higher on MS66+ coins than what I would grade coins at. Most PCGS MS66 coins look MS65 to me.
NGC 1-2 points lower on MS65+ coins than what I would grade them at. I have had alot of luck finding well-undergraded examples in older NGC slabs.
ANACS 2 points higher on MS60+ coins than what I would grade them at.
ACG 2-3 points higher on MS60+ coins than what I would grade them at.
If ACG does like PCGS does and frequently undergraded coins, people would get excited finding undergraded examples in ACG slabs and they would get more positive attention. I think that is all it boils down to.
From what I have heard, ACG has also had problems with counterfiets and QT. I don't worry about that though, I only buy white coins in ACG slabs anyways.
Lately, I have seen some well graded ACG coins on ebay and am probably going to bid on them. If I don't like them, I will send them back. Just as simple as that.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Poorguy, what you're saying is, "buy the coin, not the holder", and I agree. However this statement you made that I quoted overrules any differences you see in grading. If you end up with a counterfeit or artificially-toned coin, the grade is irrelevant. Also, you could also end up with an all-white coin that has been cleaned or whizzed. So, what I am saying is that the grade is irrelevant if you end up with a counterfeit or a problem coin. This is more important with key dates.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Yes, buy the coin, not the holder, but apparently that isn't getting through to some people so I expanded about the point. I also threw in some thoughts about how grading services stand "in my opinion" up to one another.
I have never bought a coin because it was graded MS66PL. I have only bought coins because they were MS66PL.
This reminds me of a coin store in New York City in the late 60's. I believe it was located on 57th St West of 5th Ave and I think the name was Tru-Value. What they did was make up there own grading terms to kind of correspond with the G, VG, F etc. but in my opinion it was used to create gradeflation.
What we have today is worse because everyone is using the same terms but applying different standards. So is NTC wrong? Just because one grading co. or another would or does grade a coin differentely does that make NTC wrong?
But for the same reason I don't buy my electronics out of the trunk of some guy's car ... or buy the new widget on TV that comes with $100. worth of FREE merchandise for ONLY $9.99 ...
If it's too good to be true (NOT Tru-Value) ...
Joe.
<< <i>I have never bought a coin because it was graded MS66PL. I have only bought coins because they were MS66PL. >>
Most don't know how to grade a coin MS66PL so they rely on a grading service to conform closely to the ANA grading standards and use the sheldon scale like it is supposed to be used. If they don't, then folks who don't know how to grade are very suseptable to being ripped off.
I carry it around to shows as a joke, everyone who looks at it just shakes their head. It's such a sad commentary.
As I told you Eric, you may borrow it for an exibit if needed. I do want it back as it speaks such volumes all by itself.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff