POLL: Is the Press/Wrinkle Method for Card Restoration Unethical ?
Basilone
Posts: 2,492 ✭✭
Is the following restoration process unethical in your opinion....Yes or No ?
press/wrinkle method (for edification.....wet wrinkled card back with distilled water using tip of finger; dab away excess water; put in folded piece of paper or envelope; put in middle pages of any book; put several pounds on top; leave for 2 to 4 weeks; take out and set on any flat surface for several months; check with 10x loupe from time to time for reoccuring shrinkage or wrinkles; submit to PSA for grading; sell or keep in your collection)
press/wrinkle method (for edification.....wet wrinkled card back with distilled water using tip of finger; dab away excess water; put in folded piece of paper or envelope; put in middle pages of any book; put several pounds on top; leave for 2 to 4 weeks; take out and set on any flat surface for several months; check with 10x loupe from time to time for reoccuring shrinkage or wrinkles; submit to PSA for grading; sell or keep in your collection)
0
Comments
A. Given time, the wrinkle can pop back out. Ever wonder why there are 8's with surface wrinkles?
B. In general, cards with wrinkles roll off of the production line that way. The "returning it to its original condition" argument is bunk.
Joe
I think you bring up an important topic--How deep is the card fixing picture? I'm not talking about people like Dick Towle Unwashed, but, rather, the average collector. How much home doctoring is going on? How many people are parking their cars on top of wrinkled cards? How many people trim and try to get a high grade from one of the grading companies? Is it just understood that people tinker with their cards? I don't know. As I've said many times, I'm a hobbyist and collector. I'm not in this to make a living. There's something sacred about the cards and I can't imagine ever doing anything to improve their natural state. However, I think that's naive now. I've gone through raw material I've purchased with an extra intensity after the posts of a few nights ago. I'm not an expert, but now all corners look fishy. I've discovered creases that seem to have been pressed. Little erasure marks have become visible under new scrutiny. This isn't a finger-pointing question. Rather, I'm wondering what you all think. Is there any purity left? Does it exist as the exception to the rule? When one little blemish can mean a difference of thousands of dollars, is it possible to keep an optimistic attitude? There's a bunch of nonsense going on, but at what levels? I'm curious to know the general consensus.
PSAtanumbi
The elevator straight to hell is down the hallway and to the left......
god help us
Loth
Steve
The full disclosure option is no good, because it can only be controlled on the original sale. What is to stop the original buyer from turning around and selling it to someone else without full disclosure? And so on, and so on. It would be impossible to monitor these "tainted" cards, especially when sold privately.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED topic - can you please remind me of the stor(ies) you once told about some Bowman cards that you had in one company's holders that crossed over to a grade far, far lower into another comany's holder? I just COMPLETELY RANDOMLY wanted to hear that story right here right now.
The whole problem with 2-hour grading at card shows...? Cards with creases freshly removed may be able to get very high grades in the short-term, with creases appearing on an other NM/MT card some time later.....
MS
Great Point!
I just wanted to give an option where it is okay as long as you never plan to sell it (yet it seems most collections are sold at one time or another).
John
My feeling is that in the manufacturing of any cardboard product, paper stock is soaked and rolled under pressure into sheets. Then it is dried and cut.
All this method does is simply duplicate the process. Is it doctoring to simply apply this same process just because the card has left the factory? If a quality control worker from Topps discovered the wrinkles and applied this process to "correct the imperfection", would it be fraud? Is simple water and pressure applied to that same cardboard stock considered doctoring?
We are not talking about adding or detracting anything from the card. Not color, bleach, paint, blade, or any foreign substance.
JIM
Personally....it kind of scares me as creases could reappear months or years later. I have the same feeling in regards to Kellogg's cards....years later....they could crack under certain circumstances.
EDITED: Also...I made a slight edit to the 2nd option. Bernie brings up a good point regarding disclosure. Sure the original buyer may know about the restoration...but that information may not be passed along to the next buyer....so I simply put "Yes...only if you ever plan to resell the card".
When these cards are submitted, there is no expectation of grade. I submit that this method cannot be detected because it is a natural process. Not because it is subliminal.
Let me pose this question to you. Let say I buy a 1 of 1 1971 Topps PSA 9 semi-star card for $1,000.
The SMR on the card is $175.00.
Should PSA be liable for the $1,000 that I paid for the card (assuming I could supply undeniable proof that I paid that much) or should they be liable for the current SMR value. If PSA is will only compensate me for the SMR value than I'm out $825.
I'm not sure PSA should be liable to compensate 100% of the purchase price. The exposure is just to great for PSA.
There would be nothing stopping a group of people from artificially inflating a price of a card through an ebay auction (seller & 2 bidders)...just so that they could send it to PSA for a full refund of the purchase price and splitting the profits 3 ways.
John
Edited-syntax
<< <i>Is it doctoring to simply apply this same process just because the card has left the factory? >>
I think it is. The card didn't leave the factory with wax/gum stains, and for the most part, dog-eared corners, toned borders, paper loss, etc... My problem is where does the line get drawn?
It's like the student who needs a 90.0% for an A, but has an 89.5%. Does the teacher round the grade up? Then how about the student with an 89.45%? In either case, there needs to be a concrete standard.
PSA GRADING STANDARDS: PSA will not grade cards which bear evidence of trimming, re-coloring, restoration, or any other form of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity.
I don't think PSA agrees with this method.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
the only issue i have is the uncertainty of the crease coming back. if it is out initially i don't think we can assume it is out forever.
although bmw is not popular in these parts, it seems he has been doing this and he is selling high grade high dollar cards.
Though I have heard stories of this, someone would have to show me a wrinkle (one that cannot have possibly been missed in the grading process) in a PSA 7 or better card for me to believe that they can reappear. I would suppose that this is PSA's view also.
As I said, the 4 that I have in PSA 8 holders were done over 2 years ago and still show no signs of reappearance.
JIM
This is definately a morality question...we all will agree that if done for deceit then it's wrong...but if it isn't...hey...it's my card...I have no intention of reselling the card...it's going into my private collection...and wham...the above example occurs...what changed...the deed is still done...no one ever knows that it was "fixed"...okay...right or wrong...
My wife and I debated this subject the other day...she made some good points...but ultimately I believe...any restoration in my opinion is questionable...the purpose of these types of debates is to give credence to those that "restore" cards...approval for these actions are being looked for...call them excuses...rationalization is another good word...
As tempting as it is to do some of these things to cards...it doesn't change a basic principle...if you are collecting a "mint" card...it needs to be un-touched...as it came from the factory...any additions to that card that need to be removed or touched up alter that basic premise...once a card has been damaged...even with gum residue...it is no longer a "Mint" card...
If we were just collecting and these cards had "no" value...then no one would be altering cards...it is the value that restorers are attempt to change...and when we attempt to change the value of the card then it "probably" becomes unethical...
What do you think?
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets
Let's see if we can draw the line a little closer. I have spoken to many a dealer who advises to 'prepare' cards before submitting them. This includes, but is not limited to, carefully razor-cutting any minute hairs from the edges or corners or even wiping down the photo with a felt cloth sometimes even so far as to add a touch of clear polish to add gloss to the photo. Is this altering or doctoring? Or enhancing? Primping?
Every time a raw card is handled, no matter with how much care, it is altered....with the oils in your fingers, the pressure of your touch. Does PSA use a 100x magnifier to inspect cards? 1000x?
<< <i>Bernie, that's the problem. PSA does agree since all 7 cards I applied this method to were submitted and at different times, and all graded PSA 8, hence PSA believes these cards were not tampered with or altered in any way, therefore they weren't. >>
Scoop:
I disagree with your reasoning. The fact that the cards were submitted to PSA, and PSA did not detect that the card was restored, does not mean that the cards were not restored. If a card is trimmed, and it is submitted to PSA, and the graders miss the fact that the card has been trimmed, does that mean the card is not trimmed? Obviously not, the graders simply made a mistake.
<< <i>All this method does is simply duplicate the process. Is it doctoring to simply apply this same process just because the card has left the factory? If a quality control worker from Topps discovered the wrinkles and applied this process to "correct the imperfection", would it be fraud? Is simple water and pressure applied to that same cardboard stock considered doctoring? >>
I disagree with this reasoning as well. The factory could decide to trim oversized cards. Does that mean that trimming is OK? What about sheet cut cards? Doesn't the factory sheet cut cards so under your reasoning sheet cuts are acceptable?
Wrinkles are just like any defect that occurs in the manufacture of a card. Some cards have print spots, some are off-center, some are not the correct size, etc. In a perfect manufacturing world, each card would be perfect. But they are not. This, of course, is one of the reasons that high grade cards command a premium. Most cards that are taken from a pack are not high grade.
<< <i>John, great point. I would think that PSA would aid in solving this problem. Either in tracking down the submitter, or finding a way to detect and prohibit this process if it is found to be at fault. If the card were traced back to me, I would make good on the card.
Though I have heard stories of this, someone would have to show me a wrinkle (one that cannot have possibly been missed in the grading process) in a PSA 7 or better card for me to believe that they can reappear. I would suppose that this is PSA's view also.
As I said, the 4 that I have in PSA 8 holders were done over 2 years ago and still show no signs of reappearance. >>
Are you saying that if the wrinkle reappears 15 years from now, and a card you sold for $500 today is worth $10,000, you would pay the ultimate buyer $10,000? Also, you say that you believe that PSA's view must be in agreement with you. Have you inquired with PSA as to whether they view removing a wrinkle is acceptable? My guess is that they would tell you that the practice is not acceptable.
I understand that you have told the buyer that the wrinkles were removed, and have offered to make good if the wrinkle reappears. However, my concern would be what happens if the buyer sells the card. This is my problem with cards that are sold with a full disclosure that they have been restored. My guess is that the vast majority of cards that are sold with disclosure that they are restored are then resold without the disclosure. I don't think that is the case here but I make the point because some view the disclosure as taking care of the problem. If someone knows that 90% of the time a card sold as restored will be passed off as unrestored to an unsuspecting buyer, then someone is either fooling themselves believing that what they are doing will eventually cause harm or someone simply doesn't care.
Shouldn't it be sufficient that people can sell cards that were originally sold for a penny for a lot more than that now, even the cards that aren't perfect? Do we need to squeeze every last dollar out of the collector by restoring cards? Collectors who are burned leave the hobby often never to return. This hobby is supposed to be FUN. Good businessmen can make a profit in selling cards without restoring cards. IMO, grading (regardless of your choice of grading companies) took off because people were tired of getting ripped off. They want to spend their time hunting down the cards they need and admiring them. They want to trade their cards with other collectors are share stories. They don't want to spend their time examining every card for 10 minutes trying to detect alterations. Grading was designed to eliminate that problem. Now that people have found out that there is a robust market for high grade cards, many are trying to make a buck by duping the grading companies. If the restorers get the better of the grading companies, where do we go from there? Some say the solution is simply to buy the card and not the holder. I agree, if one is talking about eye appeal, and general conformity to the standards for the grade. But I'm not a professional grader. I can't detect sophisticated alterations. That's one of the main reasons I buy graded cards, to eliminate (or at least lessen) the chances of being duped. If grading doesn't provide the solution, then I think the hobby is in trouble.
Scoop, please don't take anything in this post personally. I'm just presenting my point of view. Your candor reflects well upon you, and it has led to a good discussion of issues facing the hobby.
John
A) It's OK if the card plans to remain in your private collection in raw form.
A is different than B because scenario A doesn't involve trying to deceive anyone (i.e. a grader or a buyer) of your card. I feel scenario A is OK because the card is yours and you are free to do what you want with it (again, just a long as it doesn't involve the deception of others).
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
IMO cleaning wax off the card is no problem. Trimming, bleaching, recoloring, etc. is a huge problem. Pressing wrinkles seems like a (dark) gray area. Certainly the chance of the wrinkle reappearing makes it a suspect process at best.
Unfortunately, profit seems to be the primary driver in all of this. For some reason that clouds people's definition of ethical.
As long as it is possible to alter a card in some way and then to profit from it, these "doctoring" scenarios aren't going away.
In some way, it puts more of an emphasis on PSA's ability to detect such methods, and to return the cards to the submitter as altered.
Live long, and prosper.
<< <i>I understand your concern about reappearance of the problem. But if this card is PSA graded and does end up back on the market in the future, doesn't PSA stand behind their product with a money-back program? >>
Scoop,
You are living in a dream world. I was told by Alisha of customer service on 3-26-04 that I'm supposed
to go the person I bought the cards off of. For me that was two years ago on ebay. I had one
of the seller ids. But that did not lead to anything. So now I have two red man cards in Psa 7 holders
with creases. I plan to bring these to Fort Washington to see if Psa really will stand behind their
product. Knowing the $hit I now have to go through for $145 worth of cards, if I was the guy that
just bought your 56 set I'd be looking for a refund from you right here and now. I don't need
aggrevation of getting hosed on cards with sudden creases in them in Psa 8 holders. This whole
thing about going to the original seller to get my money back has got me quite agitated. Let's
face it two years from now if I asked you for money back on the set I bought off of Mastro you
would tell me to go pound sand. I'd tell you the same thing. So maybe Joe Orlando should tell
us what he thinks of this whole deal of taking creases out of cards.
aconte
i completely agree with Vargha's statement.
KING (Larry) knows quite a bit about paper and its properties. Hopefully he can explain what the long term effects of "pressing" might be?
Groucho Marx
Luckily PSA didn't send me to the original seller but rather refunded my money. Sounds like policy may have changed. One of the many problems in going to the seller is that person may not have submitted the card.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
<< <i>So maybe Joe Orlando should tell us what he thinks of this whole deal of taking creases out of cards.
>>
I sent a email to Joe yesterday regarding this the Press/Wrinkle process. I'm interested to hear his thoughts.
I will bring the 4 cards I did this to to the Ft. Washington show this weekend and talk to PSA (they will be able to match cards to my original submission form as well as all my submissions, so if any show up in the future, they can be traced to me). If they want to take possession of the cards for in indefinate period of time and reinspect the cards, I have no problem with it. No fraud was or is intended. I have talked to the owner of the other 3 cards and asked if he wanted to return them, but is still happy with them.
This notion that wrinkles reappear is nonsense. Yes, if someone carelessly applies too much pressure to small areas of the card it can have a permanent affect. In essence, the wrinkle was never gone, just temporarily hidden. But the process I used is permanent. It has to be. It is the same process that is used to make the cardboard in the first place. If not, there would be millions of cards with wrinkles popping up due to the manufacturing process. PSA cannot detect anything wrong with card, not because there is nothing they can see, but because there is nothing TO see.
I have been forthcoming and, as I said, have a perfect ebay sales record. I do not deserve a scarlet letter.
Jim
<< <i>But the process I used is permanent. It has to be. It is the same process that is used to make the cardboard in the first place. >>
I didn't know that card manufacturers used distilled water to wet the crease, dab away the water, put in a folded envelope, put in a middle of a book, and put several pounds on it for 2-4 weeks.
I'm not mad at you. It's Psa's answer to me that I find unacceptable.
I appreciate your honesty. I'm kind of confused on the whole thing with your 56 set and other
cards of yours. For me to keep things simple I'd rather just pass on your stuff. Again, I'm not
trying to offend you. I just don't need any headaches as I try to enjoy the hobby.
Just my honest answer...
aconte
Aconte-
In your opinion, do you think PSA should be liable for your purchase price of the cards (with the correct backup) or the stated SMR of the card?
(see one of my previous posts regarding a possible scenario).
John
I am not a big dealer, but a small-time collector. Niney-nine percent of the cards that I have sold were just duplicates from my original set and from a couple of big lots of '56's that I bought from McAvoy Cards and Sims Cards.
JIM
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
I think Psa should offer some form of compensation either in the form of coupons (if the submitter
would take them) or a money back guarantee. I'm not trying to dictate policy but I guess my
question is "Is there a money back guarantee or any type of guarantee anymore?" If not then
where can I read this. I'll accept the policy change (if it exists) and move on.
Anyhow, I think Psa should offer the lower of the two as a form of compensation:
1) Either purchase price with some form of back up records for cash refund (otherwise coupons)
2) or current SMR value.
I think that would be fair. But unfortunately I don't have a say on the policy.
aconte
WIWAG, the MW-BOTN card doctoring admissions, altered high dollar auction lots, etc... What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The hobby is resilient, however the grading era will end. It will be destroyed by the people who gained the most from it. PSA slabs meant a large premium. If a seller/dealer followed the rules, he/she would have come out way ahead in the long run. Instead, deception and the lure of an easy dollar has put the graded card trend on the brink of collapse.
I don't think it's a good time to be buying high grade slabbed cards. Mid-grades seem a bit safer now because the upside isn't as great and card barbers are going for the kill. However, if the high grade cards stop moving you can bet the same people will be taking 2s and 3s and turning them into 4s, 5s and 6s.
Integrity is dead. Integrity actually has a negative connotation now. It implies weakness. I sense an attitude out there that truly scares me. If you're not rippping off the next guy, you're a wimp. It makes me sick.
Edited: In the spite of the problems we have in this hobby with card doctors...I don't think it is a widespread problem. A card has to be in a certain condition, quality, and potential value BEFORE it is even considered for restoration.
Scumbi...I agree, what happened to the concept of integrity, and I don't know how people can live with themselves knowing they have ripped someone off--that has always astounded me.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
Don't let Scoop fool you... he obviously knows nothing about the paper manufacturing process... but, fortunately I do. I am a graphic designer, specify paper on a daily basis, and have toured paper manufacturing plants on several occasions.
Scoop is correct on only one point. Water is used to make paper. But very early in the process and NEVER is wet paper in the hands of any card manufacturer or printer. Re-wetting paper is not an accepted practice in paper manufacturing. Only when recycled paper is "re-pulped" does water again get introduced, but that's like starting all over. Ironcially, the paper making process can be summed up as getting water OUT of paper in order to stabilize it!
Paper can only be handled, nevermind printed on, when it is at a very low moisture content. Paper's moisture content needs to be monitored closely. Some papers cannot even be used on a humid day because the moisture content spikes. In fact, here in New England, many a batch of paper gets spoiled due to excessive humidity and is not printable. Let me explain why if you'll indulge me.
During the paper-making process, water is critical to making paper fibers in pulp bind. Think of the pulp as a sponge. When it is wet, it expands. As it dries it shrinks and binds together (the tightness). Pulp is drained and rolled on wires and rollers in a very precise process that nets rolls of dry paper in a variety of textures and weights. If that dried paper were to get wet, the fibers in the pulp would expand and separate. Once this occurs, there is NO WAY for it to retain its original dense, flat binded surface. The paper is emphatically destroyed. No amount of pressing, no hundred pounds of books, no number of fat men sitting on planks could restore those fibers to their original state. Think of that sponge again. Why is it that once you use it, you can never get it back to that tiny size you bought it in?
So, don't let Scoop pull the wool over your eyes in a lame attempt to disguise the fact the he is a doctor. He obviously knows just enough about "restoration" to sound credible. But, make no bones about it, when he wets a card the last thing he is doing is treating it the same way a card manufacturer does. He should be ashamed of himself.
I have never pressed a wrinkle out of a card, but I have removed a surface indentation using water. The "defect" was a small, round indentation in the front of the card -- it was about the size of the tip of a bic pen cap. I have no idea how this indentation was created, but it did not appear to be a flaw in the underlying paper.
I simply filled the indentation with wafer (using an eye dropper) until the water was absorbed, then I let it dry. I repeated the process probably 10 times over the next few days and each time the indentation became smaller until it was gone. In my mind, this was exactly the same as removing wax from a card which I have also done from time to time.
I guess that my "doctoring" is a bit less severe than the topic of discussion here, but it is certainly similar.
where do we draw the line?
Bad- trimming, bleaching, build up corners , recoloring
Gray-pressing , cutting micro hairs from the edges, erasing pencil marks
Ok- putting a curled card (kellogs) inside a book to make it flat, remove a gum stain with a panty hose
????
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Bernie, that's the problem. PSA does agree since all 7 cards I applied this method to were submitted and at different times, and all graded PSA 8, hence PSA believes these cards were not tampered with or altered in any way, therefore they weren't. >>
That's a very convincing argument. On my tax return last year, I claimed a $10,000 deduction for expenses related to my cat. Since the IRS did not catch it, obviously that deduction is allowed.
Joe
If you display your cards on a shelf w/ the sun glaring at the cards for several hours a day, within time the vibrant cards will fade. And after awhile, these dull faded card will appear to be over graded. As that nice PSA-8 '58 Mantle w/ the gleaming orange backround looks awful. Again, when PSA graded it, it had a different appearance. This is a tough call by PSA when & if a wrinkle reappears.
If you can press a wrinkle out of a card w/ water & pressure, you could also submit the card to Beckett, SGC, GAI and the other grading companies. What are their stances on a "Buy-back" under this situation? So if this problem is indeed prevelent in our hobby, its not just a PSA isolated situation, it would affect all the grading companies, and it would affect all ungraded sales as well....jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
calleocho - I disagree that erasing pencil marks (as opposed to power erasing) is wrong. Here's my reason: PSA will grade a card that has erased pencil marks. They still give it the MK qualifier, but they grade it. That means that they do not consider it an alteration even though they have recognized it. IMO, it is similar to carefully removing tape from a card.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
I would have to agree with Vargha.While I would not use this method myself, I cannot place it up there with trimming or recoloring. I guess that I am too lazy or money is not important enough for me to go through any process as far as cards are concerned.
I think that while Scoop has done something that many find unjustified,he is being crucified by many that do not know the man. I honestly think that he has not tried to deceive anyone and would buy back any card that he sold if the creases should reappear.
I think that Calleocho puts it best..... Where do we draw the line ? When a card comes from the factory with"frog hairs"on it,Is trimming those "doctoring" ? When a card comes from the factory with wax on the front,Is removing the wax "doctoring" ? Have any of the posters here done either of the above two examples ?
If we all were taking a lie detector test as far as cards go,How many on these boards would be throwing stones at glass houses while living in one ? Does anyone here honestly think that most medium to large card dealers as well as some grading companies are not guilty of some form of card "doctoring"as we so willingly like to put it ?
I say that everyone had better wake up and smell the vintage bubble gum.My money is on the line"It's been happening a long time",with raw cards as well as graded and probably in all conditions from VG to MT.
Think about that !!!
Vic
Vic;
This is a valid point, but that doesn't mean we have to settle for it... we should have more conviction about raising the bar in this hobby... our complacency let's the hobby get dictated by the likes of MW and BOTN... as misplaced as it may be, they are the ones with conviction!
CON40,
I agree that complacency is a bad thing.I just feel that we shouldn't villify one of our own when it seems that this was done on a small scale with what I deem as an absence of malice. I am sure that had Jim thought most here were in such abhorance of his card "doctoring",he would have never done it.I wonder how many will try to meet the man at this weekends show and see what kind of a villan he really is.Might surprise a few.
Vic
I know I came down a little hard on him, but he was really putting on the hard sell about his process not altering the card. He was wrong to say that... we actually kind of kissed and made up on the other thread (the hijacked 56 Topps Mastro thread)...
He's going to review his methods with PSA at Ft. Washington and get their opinion as to whether this can be considering doctoring.
I don't want to be a hard a$$, but when people start condoning this, we start losing the integrity of the hobby in small steps. Today, wetting and pressing is ok, tomorrow its bleaching, and so on and so on. I'd like to imagine there's a line in the sand somewhere!
CON40,
It is good to see that you can see through the "Scoop is the devil card doctor reincarnate" mentality that was so prevalent here almost from the outset.That was the crux of my opposing this discussion.I agree 100 % with your position as to the "line in the sand". I think that you will find that Jim will go out of his way to make something positive out of this situation if at all humanly possible. I think that almost everyone will agree that card doctoring in any form is detrimental to our hobby and we as a collecting community should take all the necessary steps to stop these practices.(I'll bet this last statement gets taken out of context).Unfortunately,as long as there is a dollar to be made,someone will try to find a way to get over on the rest of the honest collecting community. I will await Jims response from the show.
Strange how quite PSA has been concerning this topic,don't you think ? I am sure that the powers that be are reading these threads.
Vic
Vic;
That's crossed my mind too... They could take the opportunity to do a little public service statement regarding their stance on card doctoring and some of the measures they take to detect it. If they can spot cards that have been soaked and pressed, well then announce it as it may discourage more doctors from trying.
Makes you wonder if they really have a protocol for identifying alterations, or if they just grade'em one card at a time and keep their fingers crossed.
Makes you wonder if they really have a protocol for identifing alterations,or if they just grade 'em one card at a time and keep their fingers crossed.
Vic
You are up late one night dutifully screening cards for your next submission. Your eyes start to bug out of your head, and you just cannot bear to review the last 4 cards in the stack. You leave them out on your desk and go to sleep. In the morning you discover that it poured overnight, you left your windows open, and the wind blew alot of rain onto your desk. You have 4 soaked cards sitting in a puddle with your loupe in the middle of your desk.
After you finish cursing, you sit down and formulate a plan of attack. Upon review, the cards actually look OK...but they are soaking wet. So, you put them between a couple pieces of paper, put a book on them and go to work.
When you get home in the evening, you look at them and they look just fine. You are psyched, quickly put the cards into CardSavers, seal up your submission, and crack a few cold ones.
Have you done anything unethical?
I consider it highly unethical to take such poor care of one's cards.
I'd say dry'em out keep'em in a nice raw set that you could start building! If you let the paper dry naturally, the cards will be warped. But I would also imagine that rainwater will leave spots on the cards too... so you'd have to do some true doctoring to get'em up to snuff for grading. Would you do that?