Family, kids, coins, sports (playing not watching), jet skiing, wakeboarding, Big Air....no one ever got hurt in the air....its the sudden stop that hurts. I hate Hurricane Sandy. I hate FEMA and i hate the blasted insurance companies.
I've changed my mind... I'm gonna change my guess to MS63... I don't see any real rub, just a mushy strike... look at the lines at the top of the shield on the Rev, they're almost obliterated... usually, most of the lines are fairly strong even into VG/G grades... for that portion to have wear, there would be considerable wear on the wings... I think it's actually Unc, and you're just seeing a weak strike and calling it wear...
Tough to grade this one without a live inspection. The reverse reveals a weak strike in the central area near Eagle's breast. Notice how worn this area is with remainder not nearly as worn (may not be wear just a weak strike). The obverse is also weakly struck in the same area as the reverse - hair curls near facial area - which corresponds with the reverse weakness area. Everything else shows far stronger detail and the cheek, hair, stars and dentils all show minimal (if any) wear. In addition, the toning appears vivid which can only mean LUSTRE is present - which would be unsual if the coin were "lower" graded XF-AU. I'm curious to see how this one actually grades. Great looking coin in any event. matteproof
A good number of 1832 half dimes have soft strikes. I'd be very surprised if this coin graded less than AU58 and would not be at all surprised if it graded MS64.
Edited to add: The first several examples of this date I found images of, did not confirm my above statement regarding weak strikes, however.
What I find difficult about a weak strike is the the stars are all well struck, The letters are also well struck. Tough call. I could also argue that since the stars are so nice why is there no wear on them?
Well... it's possible for a weak strike in the middle with a strong strike on the outside... the deepest part of the coin is that central area, with the shield and the curls, while the forward edge of the wings and the drapery thing at the bottom of the bust are the highest points, the other side of the design is lower...
From the image... I see areas devoid of luster in the unprotected portions of both the fields and the devices. I see a coin that retains more luster than I would expect for an XF coin. I see well struck areas with little or no wear indicating (along with the ample remaining luster) that the lack of central detail is strike related. I call it AU 53 or 55 with great original eye appeal. I would want to see more luster for a higher grade (maybe it's there in person). Good guess?
My AU58 example must be a strong strike for that year, because it has alot more detail than this coin does. Assuming it's a weak strike I'd say its MS63. Otherwise, AU55.
MS-63, totally original, weak struck in the centers probably from a sinking obverse die.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
My guess is that it is a 55. There is rub on the shield under the neck on the reverse.
David >>
I don't think that's rub... if there was wear in the lower portion, there'd be more wear on the leading edge of the wing, same for the upper portion of the shield... there would be a lot more wear on the wings if the shield was worn... if that were wear, it'd be more along the lines of being a VF coin... not AU...
Yes, to be sure one would have to see the coin in person to make sure that it is strike and not at least some rub on the piece.
I'd NEVER give it an MS-64, however, because of the strike.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
As much as I'm enjoying the replies I must sign off for the night. Thank you all for your responses. Rather than leave you all hanging, I will announce that PCGS gave it a MS 63. I am thinking I will return the coin as I was hoping for more details. I like that it is original. There is luster but it isn't "booming".
Pcgs probably gave it au55 because they will think its worn. I see they graded it 63. I am surprised they actually took the time to figure out it is the strike and not wear.
<< <i>As much as I'm enjoying the replies I must sign off for the night. Thank you all for your responses. Rather than leave you all hanging, I will announce that PCGS gave it a MS 63. I am thinking I will return the coin as I was hoping for more details. I like that it is original. There is luster but it isn't "booming". >>
If this is a type peice for you, Carl, I don't blame you for returning it because of the sharpness. I'll warn you though that a lot of these coins are weakly struck, and many are less attractive than this one. Strike problems finally convinced the mint to make the designs on the half dimes and dimes less complex.
I'd buy this piece in a heart beat at the going wholesale prices. Coins like this, at moderate collector prices are always in demand.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
This was a interesting thread because it brought out several points: 1) Strike difficulties were common in the era of this coin 2) Strike difficulties and rub may be confused in pictures and even in hand to those unfamiliar with the series and date 3) There are differences in weight collectors place on strike vrs toning, luster and hairlines 4) Separating AU from low MS coins from pics will be difficult in many instances. In truth this is a sliding process.
Trime: Another interesting point to consider, is that many collectors (including me) would prefer a less expensive well-struck AU-55 or 58 over a weakly struck MS-62 to 63 coin.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
The coin looks Unc. to me. I don't see any tell-tale lines on the flat spots where the strike was less than perfect.
Toning and worn dies reduce the amount of luster. That's just a fact of numismatics.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Trime: Another interesting point to consider, is that many collectors (including me) would prefer a less expensive well-struck AU-55 or 58 over a weakly struck MS-62 to 63 coin. >>
Hi all. I was thinking about CarlWohlforth's beautiful 1832 half dime with the strike that had us all pondering it's grade. It caused me to pull one of my 1832 half dimes and I photographed it (below). This example of the 1832 half dime is the rare LM 11.2 (R5). I bought this coin mainly because I fell in love with the massive die break (crack?) along Liberty's cheek. This coin's die break is very reminiscent of the "Scarface" Morgan Dollar. I tried to take a close up photo so you can see the depth of the die break on this half dime. NGC has graded this coin??? Care to take a guess? Thanks! matteproof
MS-63 with eye appeal of MS-64. I gave it the lower 63 because of weakness of strike in Obv Hair & Rev shield.
However, I may be overly critical and low on grade because I am not familiar with typical strike characteristics & grading criteria for Bust Half Dimes.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Weakness of strike? Geeze, mine had a weak strike and got a 63. That should easily be graded higher than mine even if it does appear to have better luster I would offer you more than MS 64 Grey sheet Ask in a New York second for that coin!
Edited to add: Even if I end up being way off on my guess, I want to at least explain how I arrived at it.
Judging from the images (which, let's face it, is all we have to go by here), I see a coin with attractive color, a pretty darned good/nicely detailed strike overall, seemingly plenty of luster and no obvious/noticeable man-made flaws.
Yes, the images might very well be masking some friction/rub, hairlines, wiping, small disturbances, etc. But, from the images themselves, I see no reason why this coin couldn't/shouldn't grade MS66.
both nice coins, the first I "grade" 61 or 62 but "price" as a 63, the second one (the scarface) I really really like the look and variety of, grade it a 65 and price it at a 66+ for the eye appeal and visual interest
Hi all. Thank you JrGman, Stuart, CarlW, Coinguy1, TCT, Baley for your excellent input. You guys are all TERRIFIC graders and savvy numismatists. NGC has graded it ms66. Coinguy1 hit it exactly on the money with his sole 66 grade . My sense is that if the coin had a hint more lustre it might have a real shot at 67.
Ultimately, I jumped all over this coin due to the “scarface” die break which I found irresistible and highly unique (I’ve never seen another with that die break). The fact that it was an LM11.2 (r5) was a prize (I have a numismatic fetish for freaky rare half dimes). The great thing about half dimes (Early, Bust and Seated) is the amazing array of fantastic rarities among them (far more than many might suppose). Thank you again all for your input. matteproof
CarlWohlforth
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Comments
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gorgeous coin,,,
tom
Nice type coin Carl!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
42/92
Edited to add: The first several examples of this date I found images of, did not confirm my above statement regarding weak strikes, however.
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Tom
BC
My guess is that it is a 55. There is rub on the shield under the neck on the reverse.
David
<< <i>Hi All,
My guess is that it is a 55. There is rub on the shield under the neck on the reverse.
David >>
I don't think that's rub... if there was wear in the lower portion, there'd be more wear on the leading edge of the wing, same for the upper portion of the shield... there would be a lot more wear on the wings if the shield was worn... if that were wear, it'd be more along the lines of being a VF coin... not AU...
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I'd NEVER give it an MS-64, however, because of the strike.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I see they graded it 63. I am surprised they actually took the time to figure out it is the strike and not wear.
K S
<< <i>As much as I'm enjoying the replies I must sign off for the night. Thank you all for your responses. Rather than leave you all hanging, I will announce that PCGS gave it a MS 63. I am thinking I will return the coin as I was hoping for more details. I like that it is original. There is luster but it isn't "booming". >>
If this is a type peice for you, Carl, I don't blame you for returning it because of the sharpness. I'll warn you though that a lot of these coins are weakly struck, and many are less attractive than this one. Strike problems finally convinced the mint to make the designs on the half dimes and dimes less complex.
I'd buy this piece in a heart beat at the going wholesale prices. Coins like this, at moderate collector prices are always in demand.
1) Strike difficulties were common in the era of this coin
2) Strike difficulties and rub may be confused in pictures and even in hand to those unfamiliar with the series and date
3) There are differences in weight collectors place on strike vrs toning, luster and hairlines
4) Separating AU from low MS coins from pics will be difficult in many instances. In truth this is a sliding process.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
K S
BC
Toning and worn dies reduce the amount of luster. That's just a fact of numismatics.
<< <i>Trime: Another interesting point to consider, is that many collectors (including me) would prefer a less expensive well-struck AU-55 or 58 over a weakly struck MS-62 to 63 coin. >>
For me, it's eye appealing Choice-VF/XF coins...
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However, I may be overly critical and low on grade because I am not familiar with typical strike characteristics & grading criteria for Bust Half Dimes.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Edited to add: Even if I end up being way off on my guess, I want to at least explain how I arrived at it.
Judging from the images (which, let's face it, is all we have to go by here
Yes, the images might very well be masking some friction/rub, hairlines, wiping, small disturbances, etc. But, from the images themselves, I see no reason why this coin couldn't/shouldn't grade MS66.
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Ultimately, I jumped all over this coin due to the “scarface” die break which I found irresistible and highly unique (I’ve never seen another with that die break). The fact that it was an LM11.2 (r5) was a prize (I have a numismatic fetish for freaky rare half dimes). The great thing about half dimes (Early, Bust and Seated) is the amazing array of fantastic rarities among them (far more than many might suppose). Thank you again all for your input.
42/92
Dennis
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