This thread has definitely taken a turn for the better. My vote goes to Jack Bruce of Cream. Put on some headphones and listen to the jam on Crossroads and I challenge anyone to produce a better performance by a bass player. 37 years later and that song still blows me away......
I've spent years figuring out every twist and turn of Crossroads including the goof up where somebody goes into a change late or too early.The thing that is crazy about that tune is you'll almost never learn to play it with other people note for note.Nobody ever does it like the record because it's just massive full blown Improv.Plus Drummers hate playing it right and Guitarplayers don't play through the progression exact.Espically durning the solos.
I'd rather play it like Cream but the alternative to playing that song like Cream is the Robert Johnson version that sounds like ZZTop's Waiting for the bus.Completely different version but still a great song.
Also Jack Bruce is playing it on a 6 tring bass set up like a guitar unlike modern string setup on a 6.It makes it very difficult to copy the slurs and get that real raunchy old school bass sound but it can be done.
Althought not as recognized as John Paul Jones, John Entwistle or Jack Bruce - my favorite has to be Chris Squire from Yes. Always original - always recognizable. The man can just plain play!!!
Frank Bakka Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972 Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
I'm not going to be at the Fort until next March, but you are partially right, as my Grace Slick story does involve a few six-packs before a show.
With due respect to "Crossroads", you really should hear Jack Cassidy's bass playing on the live version of "Plastic Fantastic Lover" on the "Bless It's Pointed Little Head" album, and Entwistle's playing in general, but on "The Real Me" in particular is mind-boggling.
These types of threads always turn into "the guy in my favorite band is the best ever." Well, who am I to break precedent? Peter Hook from New Order (and Joy Division, and Revenge, and Monaco) has a unique style that cannot be mistaken for anyone else (nor anyone else for he). I can tell within a few notes if it is him playing. He just has a loose, slurred sound that you would think wouldn't work in a band known mostly for their electronic stuff, but somehow it just elevates their music. He's also quite the entertainer on stage. Open your mind, check him out . Try New Order's "As it is when it was."
Oh yeah, I was never much of a Primus fan, but I can't believe only one person has mentioned Les Claypool. No one could do what he could do.
ITSAWONDERFULIFE - I agree Jack Bruce was a great Bass player in Cream, although everybody seems to talk about Eric Clapton's guitar work, Bruce was overshadowed. Cream was one the 1st super groups when formed in the mid 60's. They say Ginger Baker was the fastest drummer in his day as well. Getting back to "Crossroads", which is one of my favorite rock songs. Jack Bruce's work on "Spoonful" is also notable, laying the foundation for the song. The original "Spoonful" was writen much earlier by Willie Dixon (all '60's rockers stole from him incl Yardbirds, Stones, Zeppelin etc...) for Howling Wolf, and on their version, which is much slower & grittier, a stand-up bass is used. Both versions are classics...jay
Stanley Clarke was another virtuoso/pioneer from the long list of evolutionary Alembic devotees, as was Entwhistle, Jack Cassady, David Gilmore, etc.... The Alembic Story The Wall of Sound story
Entwistle - great Chris Squire- great John Paul Jones - great Everyone in cream - great (By the way...Eric Clapton's greatest guitar work was with Roger Waters when Pink Floyd broke up. Clapton played in Waters tour and Roger let Eric go on 15-20 solo's that was the greatest guitar work ever...next to Phil Kaeggy).
I have to get a couple more jabs in before this thread dies
Allen-- no more of the Joy Division/Bauhaus/Love and Rockets resets. Next you'll be telling us Johnny Marr is the best guitarist of the eighties (BTW, Sisters of Mercy were the best of the Goth bands).
RobE- I will respectfully disagree with you on the Gene Simmons issue. He's a hack, and I'm not convinced he played his own tracks in the studio. Note that this is different from saying he's a horrible songwriter. Also, Eric Clapton is the most overrated guitarest of all time.
GR189-- If you don't have 'The Blessed Hell Ride' by BLS, I strongly recommend picking it up. Although Tool has got to go. Also, any discussion of '90's guitar players has to include Dimebag Darrel.
The best bass player of all time is IMO John Paul Jones, although there are many other good ones out there (and most have been mentioned on this thread). I never knew card collectors had a speck of musical taste. Guess you learn something new every day!
<< <i>GR189-- If you don't have 'The Blessed Hell Ride' by BLS, I strongly recommend picking it up. Although Tool has got to go. Also, any discussion of '90's guitar players has to include Dimebag Darrel. >>
yeah i have all the BLS cd's, Pride & Glory (underrated), and his "solo" album. i'm a huge Wylde fan. his latest cd, Hangover Music, came out last week. it's really good
Many great names listed, but I'm with FB on this one, Chris Squire is great and wholly underappreciated. For those who have not listened to him much or not at all, well, yours is no disgrace
I know Hook is not really the most talented bassist, but he does have a great sound and he is vastly underrated. And, IMHO, Hook's bass was the factor that set New Order and Joy Division a level above their peers. If this was a thread about drummers I would not mention Stephen Morris . Oh yeah, no way in heck was SoM better than JD .
...don't think I've ever heard bass players talk so much...
Edited to add: IMHO, Clapton may not be God, but his ability to express lyricism with his fingers and fretboard are about as close as I think any of us can ever hope to get. Saying he's overrated is like saying Sinatra was a hack and Bird couldn't sing....
Mark (amerbbcards)
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
murcerfan i thought i liked you? phil lesh is by far the greatest bass player everrob wasserman is not too shabby either! btw i am guessing other one and box of rain or maybe tom thumb blues w crosby?
RobE- I will respectfully disagree with you on the Gene Simmons issue. He's a hack, and I'm not convinced he played his own tracks in the studio. Note that this is different from saying he's a horrible songwriter. Also, Eric Clapton is the most overrated guitarest of all time.
He's not the greatest bass player to ever pick up the instrument and it's possible that he didn't play on every record.I know for fact that he didn't play on his solo record because I play with a guy who played guitar on Gene and Paul Stanley's solo records.
But for the most part I can't see him not playing on the majority of KISS records.Early on they couldn't afford to hire session ghost players but later on they did espically when Peter Chris and Ace were too drunk to play.And pretty much everything he does is not that hard to play.(We're not talking Jaco or Alonzo Johnson riffs).Therefore I can't see someone with an ego as big as his not playing on his own records.Plus,as rish as he is he doesn't like to share his money with anyone and he shouldn't have to.
And 5 out of 10 Kiss Songs Gene wrote are kind of bad.That's why the went out and bought songs from Desmond Child.
I agree that the Gene songs are usually the weakest links. In fact, off the top of my head the only one I can remember liking is 'Plaster Caster'; the rest I think could do without.
BTW, it's my opinion (and probably yours as well) that the Gene and Paul (and of course the Peter) solo albums are some of the worst efforts ever released by a successful rock band. Only the Ace album has anything going for it.
Do you know if 'I Was Made For Lovin' You' was a Desmond Child song? I always wondered where that terrible tune came from.
I was hired to play this gig in NYC at some club in the village New Year Eve 2000.Picture Punk/Sabbath/Zeppelin with Chrissy Hynde singing.
After our Tour of the West Coast the drummer and I couldn't stand the rest of the band.We quit as soon as we separated our equipment when we got home.They asked us to do 2 more gigs and the last one we did was on the front steps the the United States Capital in 2001.
This Bass I used to play in the early 90s.A 1973 P Body and a 78 Neck.It's nickname is the ugly stick,it's so ugly it's beautiful.
Although I am not really into 'prog rock' it does seem like the most accomplished bass players were in Yes, Rush, etc....
Gene Simmons wrote some classic Kiss songs in the early years - Deuce, Gold Gin, She, Let me go rock 'n roll. He never claimed to be a great bass player, but he did write some great rock 'n roll in the early years. Now he just seems to be a pompous windbag in the all the interviews I have read about him.
The Ramones were one of the most important bands in the history of rock 'n roll, but Dee Dee Ramones was probably one of the least accomplished bass player in the history of rock. Hey it was punk rock, definetely a breath of fresh air back in the 70's.
This is one of the most enjoyable threads ever on these boards. What is the name of a good rock 'n roll forum??
Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.
Who can deny the brillance and torrid bass pounding displayed on Intravenus De Milo, Break Like the Wind or Smell the Glove .
My personal mantras often borrow from Big Bottom , replete with insipid bass line, this little ditty has been a part of the soundtrack of my generation's lunatic fringe.
murcerfan - Intravenus De Milo has the best album cover
The Ramones played all their songs one ofter the other live.No stopping.It was just chain of music non-stop.
I could not even think of playing a bass with a pick for 2 1/2 hours straight.Granted it's not the most musical type of bassplaying but the physical end is remarkable.
And the take on Gene Simmons Bass playing is the art if simplicity.People spend too much time expecting musical acrobatics out of any instrument.Sometimes it's just where you place a bassnote and how it's sound that's more important than how many notes played.
The most important thing for the bass is to play in key and play in time.Lock in to the drummer and you can be Geddy Lee,Simmons or Dee Dee and have a job.
Quick music lesson for the board.(Just think of how much great music was made)(And how much bad music too)
Only 12 notes in music
Only 12 keys
All Keys are major
And there are only 3 chords - Majors,dominant and minors.(Anything else is based off of those chords)
Phil Lesh played the one and only Orange Alembic Quadraphonic which was as heavy as anything ever made, including Alembic #1 played by his pal Jack Cassady. 45 minute Dark Star jams and non-stop 2 hour sets were not uncommon. He played that thing for over 6 hours when they closed the Winterland.
Mind over matter you say ?.....hah!.......... don't make me laugh.
when it goes x-factor, the music plays the band, and gravity often joins the dance
Yes........ but then again the Dead's amplification system didn't go to 11
Of course when Dan Healy debuted the 3-d sound system at the Knickerbocker Arena and made "birds fly down from the rafters and onto your shoulder" it pretty much made the idea of raw volume stupid. Totally unbelievable stuff.
The only thing Owsley invented was blotter sheets, eye-lid movies and self-promotion.
Ron Wickersham and Phil did most of the thinking.
I grew up believing that Lesh was the luckiest SOB that ever lived.....still do. although Jeter comes close. ..................something along the lines of going 4-5 every night.
Owsley was known as the motivator of the acid/roadie freaks and electronics wizards that used to hang out with the dead.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Rick Turner and Ron Wickersham were the hands on makers of Alembics.Turner a woodworker/guitar maker and repair man and Wickersham was the electronics genius.
The first stab at an Alembic was an Alembicized Guild Starfire modified for Lesh and Jack Casady.
And the very first official Alembic with their own design was built for Jack Casady in 1971.
Alembic was also involved with a recording studio PA system devlopment and guitar modification too.
<< <i>The Ramones were one of the most important bands in the history of rock 'n roll
p-uhhhhh-leeeeze >>
The Ramones were hugely influential on bands like Green Day, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and other bands that have followed in their footsteps. They did not get much airplay, but they were the first American punk rock band. If you don't think punk rock was hugely influential during and what came after that you haven't been paying attention.
May not have been the most popular band around, but I suspect they influenced music a lot more than Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy or any of the other 'corporate' rock bands of the 80's.
Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.
Everytime the Ramones came to town they were sold out.
Speaking of Journey Ross Vallery is a very underrated bassplayer.Had a unique style and sound plus he sang great.
Journey spawned from Santana when Greg Rollie left.Origionally they were like a Rock Fusion band but then Steve Perry came in and they changed.By the time they did raised on Radio no origional members of the band were in it.
That was American Idols Randy Jackson on Bass.
Other Journey history that is very close to me is the guy I mentioned earlier who played on the Kiss Solo records Steve DeLacey.He was in the band with Perry that Neil Sean used to follow around.He was a young guitarplayer and wrote the song lights with Steve Perry but wasn't credited.
When the Bass player in Perry's band was killed they broke up and DeLacey went to play with Kim Karnes and Johnny Winter and Perry went to Journey.
<< <i>Everytime the Ramones came to town they were sold out.
Saw the Ramones in the late 70's, they were great fun. Songs were simple and played at breakneck speed, but Joey Ramone knew how to write a hook. Blitzkreig Bop is on a number of commericals now. "Hey ho - Let's go"
Collecting vintage material, currently working on 1962 topps football set.
Comments
I'd rather play it like Cream but the alternative to playing that song like Cream is the Robert Johnson version that sounds like ZZTop's Waiting for the bus.Completely different version but still a great song.
Also Jack Bruce is playing it on a 6 tring bass set up like a guitar unlike modern string setup on a 6.It makes it very difficult to copy the slurs and get that real raunchy old school bass sound but it can be done.
My Auctions
John Paul Jones is right up there with JB.
My Auctions
John Paul Jones - of my favorite band, Led Zeppellin
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
I'm not going to be at the Fort until next March, but you are partially right, as my Grace Slick story does involve a few six-packs before a show.
With due respect to "Crossroads", you really should hear Jack Cassidy's bass playing on the live version of "Plastic Fantastic Lover" on the "Bless It's Pointed Little Head" album, and Entwistle's playing in general, but on "The Real Me" in particular is mind-boggling.
1. Billy Sheehan (DLR band, Mr Big)
2. Steve Harris (Iron Maiden)
3. John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin)
4. John Entwistle (The Who)
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Oh yeah, I was never much of a Primus fan, but I can't believe only one person has mentioned Les Claypool. No one could do what he could do.
Joe
The original "Spoonful" was writen much earlier by Willie Dixon (all '60's rockers stole from him incl Yardbirds, Stones, Zeppelin etc...) for Howling Wolf, and on their version, which is much slower & grittier, a stand-up bass is used. Both versions are classics...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
as was Entwhistle, Jack Cassady, David Gilmore, etc....
The Alembic Story
The Wall of Sound story
Entwistle - great
Chris Squire- great
John Paul Jones - great
Everyone in cream - great
(By the way...Eric Clapton's greatest guitar work was with Roger Waters when Pink Floyd broke up. Clapton played in
Waters tour and Roger let Eric go on 15-20 solo's that was the greatest guitar work ever...next to Phil Kaeggy).
Stanley Clarke - awesome Murcerfan...good pic
My favorite....Geddy Lee from Rush
Allen-- no more of the Joy Division/Bauhaus/Love and Rockets resets. Next you'll be telling us Johnny Marr is the best guitarist of the eighties (BTW, Sisters of Mercy were the best of the Goth bands).
RobE- I will respectfully disagree with you on the Gene Simmons issue. He's a hack, and I'm not convinced he played his own tracks in the studio. Note that this is different from saying he's a horrible songwriter. Also, Eric Clapton is the most overrated guitarest of all time.
GR189-- If you don't have 'The Blessed Hell Ride' by BLS, I strongly recommend picking it up. Although Tool has got to go. Also, any discussion of '90's guitar players has to include Dimebag Darrel.
The best bass player of all time is IMO John Paul Jones, although there are many other good ones out there (and most have been mentioned on this thread). I never knew card collectors had a speck of musical taste. Guess you learn something new every day!
nah........Derek and the Domioes Live at the Filmore
and despite the additional nominations for Buddy Miles and Alfonso Johnson,
my favorite for the past 26 years has been Phil
edited: whoops, make that 27 years....time flies when your on tour
<< <i>GR189-- If you don't have 'The Blessed Hell Ride' by BLS, I strongly recommend picking it up. Although Tool has got to go. Also, any discussion of '90's guitar players has to include Dimebag Darrel. >>
yeah i have all the BLS cd's, Pride & Glory (underrated), and his "solo" album. i'm a huge Wylde fan. his latest cd, Hangover Music, came out last week. it's really good
and aptly named as well
ebay id: nolemmings
Joe
Edited to add: IMHO, Clapton may not be God, but his ability to express lyricism with his fingers and fretboard are about as close as I think any of us can ever hope to get. Saying he's overrated is like saying Sinatra was a hack and Bird couldn't sing....
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Phil who ?
Shame on me for not going back and reading your previous statements.
Also, does the fort open at 4 or 5 on Friday for attendees ?
marc
Leon Wilkenson, one damn fine Bassist
John Paul Jones a close second.
RobBob
Of course this is my real favorite Bass Player!!!!
RobBob
phil lesh is by far the greatest bass player ever
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
He's not the greatest bass player to ever pick up the instrument and it's possible that he didn't play on every record.I know for fact that he didn't play on his solo record because I play with a guy who played guitar on Gene and Paul Stanley's solo records.
But for the most part I can't see him not playing on the majority of KISS records.Early on they couldn't afford to hire session ghost players but later on they did espically when Peter Chris and Ace were too drunk to play.And pretty much everything he does is not that hard to play.(We're not talking Jaco or Alonzo Johnson riffs).Therefore I can't see someone with an ego as big as his not playing on his own records.Plus,as rish as he is he doesn't like to share his money with anyone and he shouldn't have to.
And 5 out of 10 Kiss Songs Gene wrote are kind of bad.That's why the went out and bought songs from Desmond Child.
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I agree that the Gene songs are usually the weakest links. In fact, off the top of my head the only one I can remember liking is 'Plaster Caster'; the rest I think could do without.
BTW, it's my opinion (and probably yours as well) that the Gene and Paul (and of course the Peter) solo albums are some of the worst efforts ever released by a successful rock band. Only the Ace album has anything going for it.
Do you know if 'I Was Made For Lovin' You' was a Desmond Child song? I always wondered where that terrible tune came from.
After our Tour of the West Coast the drummer and I couldn't stand the rest of the band.We quit as soon as we separated our equipment when we got home.They asked us to do 2 more gigs and the last one we did was on the front steps the the United States Capital in 2001.
This Bass I used to play in the early 90s.A 1973 P Body and a 78 Neck.It's nickname is the ugly stick,it's so ugly it's beautiful.
My Auctions
Those solo records are terrible,I agree it's awful.The Guy I know who played on them was like 17 at the time and he's completely embarassed of them.
I like 1 song on Gene's - When you wish upon a star.
One on Ace - back in the NY groove
and one I don't know the name of on Peter Chris's.
HEY! Nobody mentioned Sting.His solo stuff blows but in the Police he wrote some good songs and great Bass lines.
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Thats me with my Axe....Rock On
Here is another poineer.
My Auctions
Gene Simmons wrote some classic Kiss songs in the early years - Deuce, Gold Gin, She, Let me go rock 'n roll. He never claimed to be a great bass player, but he did write some great rock 'n roll in the early years. Now he just seems to be a pompous windbag in the all the interviews I have read about him.
The Ramones were one of the most important bands in the history of rock 'n roll, but Dee Dee Ramones was probably one of the least accomplished bass player in the history of rock. Hey it was punk rock, definetely a breath of fresh air back in the 70's.
This is one of the most enjoyable threads ever on these boards. What is the name of a good rock 'n roll forum??
p-uhhhhh-leeeeze
Spinal Tap rules!
Who can deny the brillance and torrid bass pounding displayed on Intravenus De Milo, Break Like the Wind or Smell the Glove .
My personal mantras often borrow from Big Bottom , replete with insipid bass line, this little ditty has been a part of the soundtrack of my generation's lunatic fringe.
I'm serious.......... do the download
The Ramones played all their songs one ofter the other live.No stopping.It was just chain of music non-stop.
I could not even think of playing a bass with a pick for 2 1/2 hours straight.Granted it's not the most musical type of bassplaying but the physical end is remarkable.
And the take on Gene Simmons Bass playing is the art if simplicity.People spend too much time expecting musical acrobatics out of any instrument.Sometimes it's just where you place a bassnote and how it's sound that's more important than how many notes played.
The most important thing for the bass is to play in key and play in time.Lock in to the drummer and you can be Geddy Lee,Simmons or Dee Dee and have a job.
Quick music lesson for the board.(Just think of how much great music was made)(And how much bad music too)
Only 12 notes in music
Only 12 keys
All Keys are major
And there are only 3 chords - Majors,dominant and minors.(Anything else is based off of those chords)
My Auctions
45 minute Dark Star jams and non-stop 2 hour sets were not uncommon.
He played that thing for over 6 hours when they closed the Winterland.
Mind over matter you say ?.....hah!.......... don't make me laugh.
when it goes x-factor, the music plays the band, and gravity often joins the dance
The Dee Dee concept however is 250 beats per minute of drilling the same note with a downward picking stroke.Talk about carpal tunnel syndrome.
My Auctions
Of course when Dan Healy debuted the 3-d sound system at the Knickerbocker Arena and made "birds fly down from the rafters and onto your shoulder" it pretty much made the idea of raw volume stupid. Totally unbelievable stuff.
My Auctions
edited to ask:
can I change my choice to Charles Mingus ?
calling Lesh just a bass player sounds too limited
Owsley may be what you feel but he did invent a great bass.
My Auctions
Ron Wickersham and Phil did most of the thinking.
I grew up believing that Lesh was the luckiest SOB that ever lived.....still do.
although Jeter comes close.
..................something along the lines of going 4-5 every night.
Buck Mulligan rides again !
Owsley was known as the motivator of the acid/roadie freaks and electronics wizards that used to hang out with the dead.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Rick Turner and Ron Wickersham were the hands on makers of Alembics.Turner a woodworker/guitar maker and repair man and Wickersham was the electronics genius.
The first stab at an Alembic was an Alembicized Guild Starfire modified for Lesh and Jack Casady.
And the very first official Alembic with their own design was built for Jack Casady in 1971.
Alembic was also involved with a recording studio PA system devlopment and guitar modification too.
My Auctions
<< <i>The Ramones were one of the most important bands in the history of rock 'n roll
p-uhhhhh-leeeeze
The Ramones were hugely influential on bands like Green Day, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and other bands that have followed in their footsteps. They did not get much airplay, but they were the first American punk rock band. If you don't think punk rock was hugely influential during and what came after that you haven't been paying attention.
May not have been the most popular band around, but I suspect they influenced music a lot more than Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy or any of the other 'corporate' rock bands of the 80's.
Speaking of Journey Ross Vallery is a very underrated bassplayer.Had a unique style and sound plus he sang great.
Journey spawned from Santana when Greg Rollie left.Origionally they were like a Rock Fusion band but then Steve Perry came in and they changed.By the time they did raised on Radio no origional members of the band were in it.
That was American Idols Randy Jackson on Bass.
Other Journey history that is very close to me is the guy I mentioned earlier who played on the Kiss Solo records Steve DeLacey.He was in the band with Perry that Neil Sean used to follow around.He was a young guitarplayer and wrote the song lights with Steve Perry but wasn't credited.
When the Bass player in Perry's band was killed they broke up and DeLacey went to play with Kim Karnes and Johnny Winter and Perry went to Journey.
My Auctions
<< <i>Ahhh.........but from the mouths of babes
I am 14 and a half. My parents don't know anything about anything and my friends are my soul source of noledge since I sleep all thru my classes.
Listening to Sports Center in the background, Shaq is absolutely painful to listen to during an interview.
<< <i>Everytime the Ramones came to town they were sold out.
Saw the Ramones in the late 70's, they were great fun. Songs were simple and played at breakneck speed, but Joey Ramone knew how to write a hook. Blitzkreig Bop is on a number of commericals now. "Hey ho - Let's go"