<< <i>Remember listing an item is a contract; plain and simple. All the rest of this banter is just one side trying to justify their feeling >>
Chris, while I agree with you on that, what's wrong with being a nice person and letting the other guy out of the "contract" when he made an honest mistake?
There's nothing wrong with allowing the other party in this contract out, but it comes down to personal responsibility. As long as thay, the seller, make right their failure to complete the contract in a manor that is OK with the buyer all is well. But I think it is wrong to say o-well we did'nt mean to do that; we cannot now do what we promised we would. Remember the underlying priciple here is what is important, how can I as a person expect to gain respect if I do not act in a respectfull and responsible manor. This is a question that we all should ask ourself each and every day.
Having been through exactly this scenario with a different dealer who happens to also be a forum member, I will say that my reaction and feelings depend on how the dealer responds. Send me an eMail along the lines of "hey, man, I know you can hold me to this contract, but can we work something out?" My response would be, no problem, I understand mistakes are made and then I'd just move on - no hard feelings. I would also have no problem buying from the dealer again.
But, simply refund my PayPal payment as soon as you see it and try to blame it on somebody else instead of accepting responsibility, as this particular gutless weasel did, (different forum member than the one being discussed in this thread), then I'm not going to be in a forgiving mood. In this case, I will never spend my money with the dealer again.
Well, considering I have a transaction outstanding with this person and anything I say may effect the way my problems gets resolved with them, I guess I won't comment further on what should be done to resolve this type of problem.
I do know one thing. I just sold some items on ebay to a guy in China. I do not ship outside the US but forgot to put this in these listings after I modified them. These listing also had a flat shipping fee. So, here I sit wondering what I should do. You know what? I listed it and I pride myself as being an honest ebayer. I made a mistake and I have learned from it. I am not going to go back on the guy and say I am not going to go through with it. He bid on it based upon my listing. I made the offer (ebay listing) and he accepted it (by bidding). DONE DEAL!
I think it is really poor to not live up to my side of the bargain. I will now make sure my listings are very complete and have the terms I intend to sell by. If I make another mistake, so be it. I will still follow through with the deal.
Believe it or not, I sold an item a while back and the guy emailed to tell me he really didn't read my description all that close and bid without thinking. He asked if I would let him out of the deal. Do you know what I told him?
NO!
He paid and I shipped the stuff to him. It is a two way street. Frankly, with my current situation, I had wished I had not bid on the second coin but I did and I won, and I paid. To bad they shipped me something different. Now I have an out to the situation.
I think Russ nailed it. I'm all for recognizing and forgiving mistakes, but these mistakes sure seem to happen a lot. And, they deliver excuses as opposed to a positive message (as Russ suggested). I would neg them, but expect one in return.
After reading all these posts, I think it comes down to the simple fact (which some have mentioned) that the seller is obligated to sell the item at his auction terms. This being governed by his own integrity and business character. The emphasis for any softening of the auction terms rests with the buyer. Also governed by his own integrity and character.
Someone mentioned about a cashier giving you back too much change. This happens quite regularly to me as I work as a cashier 20 hours or so a week. I am thankful and it shows thier character when someone recognizes my mistake and remedies it at thier loss. They could have kept the difference.
I think the seller should have explained the mistake and asked for "leniency" from the buyer all the while being willing to sell at auction terms.
So in my humble opinion it should be in your ballpark Big E to do as your conscious guides you. If you believe it was an honest mistake and they have dealt in good faith--let it go. Your kindness will surely be repaid at some point.
Fairtraderz has a way out of this, albeit unethical, that does give them the best of both worlds as a seller (until now, that is )....They can say, sure BigE, we will honor the deal and ship to you right away (assuming payment is made and goes through). Then, don't send it and two weeks later say 'it was lost in the mail...here is your original dough back - sorry about the mail'! Then sell it in a private sale for closer to fair market.
This is not something I am advocating...just something that popped into my naughty little bizness mind reading this thread.
I recently listed and sold a handfull of Mercury Dimes. I started each coin at $1.99. I sold one coin for which I paid $115 for about $90 buck. You know what. I don't care! Someone got a great deal. I didn't even consider asking the buyer to back out. What happened is a done deal.
I can't speak for others, but I don't make a living selling coins, and the fair thing is for the buyer and seller to work things out. It is a pitty that someone made an error, but I have not yet in my life met a person whom did not make any mistakes. How we handle these mistakes leads to one's credability!
It sound like it could of been handled better, but the buyer and seller are trying to work it out. They will probably reach some sort of agreement. The buyer must have known the price was too low, and is willing to work with the seller. 'nough said.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Big E, You did what we all do on Ebay search for that good deal. It is there mistake if they don't know how to list there own auctions. Your gain and there loss. Don't offer one cent above what you won the coin for. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose it is the nature of the business. No different than dealing cars.
I did offer them 200.00 more than I bid, I hit the BIN for 225. and when they said they were in the coin 680.00 I offered them 200.00 more. Then they explained to me that the gentleman who is the cataloger for them died in a motorcycle accident(he is the fellow on the left in this pictureGarys friend) I will pay them a visit in Sacramento to offer my condolences-------------------------------BigE
Payment Policyayment must arrive within 7 days unless other arrangements have been made with us. We reserve the right to RELIST or contact the next high bidder if your payment is not received within the time period noted.
Tell them to contact the next highest bidder then. It would still be you!! They are trying to get your sympathy in order to get more money for there mistake. Tell them no deal or the name of the company is a misrepresentation of who they truely are.
This is amazing and yet a sad commentary on some of the people on this board as well.
A regular collector makes a mistake and it's called "paying your tuition". Been there, done that.
A dealer makes a mistake and all of a sudden they want to reneg on the deal, in this case a legal contract. We made a mistake...waaaah.
First they are into it for $680, then it's consigned to them, which means they aren't into it for anything at this point. I know it's a fine difference, but it's two different stories. A simple collector who tells two different stories would be blasted on this board. Somehow, since they are dealers, it's supposed to be different, it's somehow acceptable to some around here? Just because some people here have had good experiences with them doesn't mean they treat everyone the same.
A mistake, simple or complex, made on a legal contract should be treated the same and the parties behind it should be treated the same.
In this case, the seller must live up to the contract, if they choose not to, they can and should be held legally liable. The coin is yours for the BIN price, pure and simple. If anything, dealers should know better than the rest of us simple collectors. Not only is the coin yours for that price but you should be entitled to any sort of financial damages if that can be shown as well.
It doesn't surprise me that some people here want to let them off the hook, but it does drive home the point that collectors are just revenue enhancers for dealers. Integrity is supposed to go both ways, I've come to believe dealers have two kinds of integrity, the kind between each other and the kind that is flexible when it comes to the shills, err, I mean collectors.
Let me add that there ARE honest dealers, but far from all dealers are honest. I've paid my tuition there as well.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I don't know jhow many here have been to a live auction but if you raise your hand, you have bought it if someone else doesn't out bid you by the time the hammer falls. If you give an item to an auctioneer and he sells if for a dollar when you wanted $100.00. Guess what, you get a dollar less the auctioneer's fees. You can all of a sudden say. Hold it, I made a mistake. It didn't sell for what I wanted. Deal is off."
Comments
<< <i>Remember listing an item is a contract; plain and simple. All the rest of this banter is just one side trying to justify their feeling >>
Chris, while I agree with you on that, what's wrong with being a nice person and letting the other guy out of the "contract" when he made an honest mistake?
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
But, simply refund my PayPal payment as soon as you see it and try to blame it on somebody else instead of accepting responsibility, as this particular gutless weasel did, (different forum member than the one being discussed in this thread), then I'm not going to be in a forgiving mood. In this case, I will never spend my money with the dealer again.
Russ, NCNE
Russ - tough point.
I do know one thing. I just sold some items on ebay to a guy in China. I do not ship outside the US but forgot to put this in these listings after I modified them. These listing also had a flat shipping fee. So, here I sit wondering what I should do. You know what? I listed it and I pride myself as being an honest ebayer. I made a mistake and I have learned from it. I am not going to go back on the guy and say I am not going to go through with it. He bid on it based upon my listing. I made the offer (ebay listing) and he accepted it (by bidding). DONE DEAL!
I think it is really poor to not live up to my side of the bargain. I will now make sure my listings are very complete and have the terms I intend to sell by. If I make another mistake, so be it. I will still follow through with the deal.
Believe it or not, I sold an item a while back and the guy emailed to tell me he really didn't read my description all that close and bid without thinking. He asked if I would let him out of the deal. Do you know what I told him?
NO!
He paid and I shipped the stuff to him. It is a two way street. Frankly, with my current situation, I had wished I had not bid on the second coin but I did and I won, and I paid. To bad they shipped me something different. Now I have an out to the situation.
that the seller is obligated to sell the item at his auction terms. This being governed by his own integrity and business character. The emphasis for any softening of the auction terms rests with the buyer. Also governed by his own integrity and character.
Someone mentioned about a cashier giving you back too much change. This happens quite regularly to me as I work as a cashier 20 hours or so a week. I am thankful and it shows thier character when someone recognizes my mistake and remedies it at thier loss. They could have kept the difference.
I think the seller should have explained the mistake and asked for "leniency" from the buyer all the while being willing to sell at auction terms.
So in my humble opinion it should be in your ballpark Big E to do as your conscious guides you. If you believe it was an honest mistake and they have dealt in good faith--let it go. Your kindness will surely be repaid at some point.
Rookie Joe
This is not something I am advocating...just something that popped into my naughty little bizness mind reading this thread.
Doug
Edited to correct grammar.
I can't speak for others, but I don't make a living selling coins, and the fair thing is for the buyer and seller to work things out. It is a pitty that someone made an error, but I have not yet in my life met a person whom did not make any mistakes. How we handle these mistakes leads to one's credability!
It sound like it could of been handled better, but the buyer and seller are trying to work it out. They will probably reach some sort of agreement. The buyer must have known the price was too low, and is willing to work with the seller. 'nough said.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
You did what we all do on Ebay search for that good deal. It is there mistake if they don't know how to list there own auctions. Your gain and there loss. Don't offer one cent above what you won the coin for. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose it is the nature of the business. No different than dealing cars.
Tell them to contact the next highest bidder then. It would still be you!! They are trying to get your sympathy in order to get more money for there mistake. Tell them no deal or the name of the company is a misrepresentation of who they truely are.
A regular collector makes a mistake and it's called "paying your tuition". Been there, done that.
A dealer makes a mistake and all of a sudden they want to reneg on the deal, in this case a legal contract. We made a mistake...waaaah.
First they are into it for $680, then it's consigned to them, which means they aren't into it for anything at this point. I know it's a fine difference, but it's two different stories. A simple collector who tells two different stories would be blasted on this board. Somehow, since they are dealers, it's supposed to be different, it's somehow acceptable to some around here? Just because some people here have had good experiences with them doesn't mean they treat everyone the same.
A mistake, simple or complex, made on a legal contract should be treated the same and the parties behind it should be treated the same.
In this case, the seller must live up to the contract, if they choose not to, they can and should be held legally liable. The coin is yours for the BIN price, pure and simple. If anything, dealers should know better than the rest of us simple collectors. Not only is the coin yours for that price but you should be entitled to any sort of financial damages if that can be shown as well.
It doesn't surprise me that some people here want to let them off the hook, but it does drive home the point that collectors are just revenue enhancers for dealers. Integrity is supposed to go both ways, I've come to believe dealers have two kinds of integrity, the kind between each other and the kind that is flexible when it comes to the shills, err, I mean collectors.
Let me add that there ARE honest dealers, but far from all dealers are honest. I've paid my tuition there as well.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff