Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
It was mistakenly listed with a BIN price for an MS65 and they don't want to sell it at that price? I'd let them out of it, hope they will repay the favor and sleep better at night.
Coinguy is probably close to what I had to say since the start date and BIN date are a few hours apart. Greysheet has it at 500.00.
Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
Say... screw you... your fault... I won the auction for this much money... so I'm gonna pay this much money, and you're gonna ship it to me with a smile, or I tell EBay...
Guess it's up to you... but really, considering how many negs they have... sock it to em if you can...
I was finding that $680.00 figure hard to believe but, after looking in the Heritage Auction Archives, I guess it's quite possible!!
Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
I would believe them about the price paid, even though I wouldn't pay that for it (at least on a sight unseen basis). They are an honest outfit and genuinely nice people.
#1 The dealer didn't pay $680 for the coin. #2 This dealer sells thousands of coins and was careless about listing it, so he wants you to cover his rear because he's simply too busy to cover it himself. #3 I guarantee that if this coin walked into his coin shop, (assuming he has a coin shop) and the coin dealer picked it up for $225, you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone. In fact, 40% of greysheet is probably what he'd offer. #4 Your counter offer to his non-offer is more than fair. The dealer should meet you half way and count himself lucky that you were reasonable.
Don't put up with this treatment.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
Iwog, are you privy to information that the rest of us don't have, in order to have made points #'s 1 and 3? If not, frankly, you have no business making such statements and "guarantees".
Ironically, BigE, the one affected here, is much more open-minded and reasonable than you appear to be.
Fairtraderz said this coin is on consignment. They are getting some more commems in on Thursday and promised me the "deal of the century" on one that they own. We will see because I got a pretty good deal on one about 10 years agoStill a little upset about this one though------------BigE
BigE, it sounds as if they are trying make it right for you. I respect any business that is willing to try and work through a problem. Please let us know how it works out.
I think I would do what CoinGuy suggests. It is nice to live in a trusting world populated by honest people. Even if it isn't true all the time it does feel better to believe that as much as possible. So why don't us coin folks give each other the benefit of the doubt, at least when there is some doubt?
The coin business is a funny business. When I trade stocks it isn't like that. If a mistake is made you eat it. It doesn't matter if you are buying or selling. If you hit buy instead of sell, if you add an extra zero, whatever, you eat your mistake. Believe me you are more careful after you make a mistake. I know from experience
Having dealt with these folks several times in the past, I believe this to be an honest mistake and you are WAY out of line to make the accusations that you are making, Iwog.
I would let it go and see what kind of an offer they make later this week....
Cecil Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!! 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
Let them off the hook for this one. Tell them you're looking for X coin in Y grade for $Z, would they hook you up if they come across it? I think they would.
Looks like it's time for a name change for ole "fairtraderz"......let's see, how about "$hitburger" because it sounds like that's what they're feeding you.....bon appetite!
Would the seller refuse to sell you a coin if it was bid up to an outragous ammount over greysheet ask? I think not. They should stand behind their BIN price. I quess if you already have multiple negative feedbacks a few more negs won't hurt.
Fivecents the difference is they they made an obvious mistake, an error. If people bid it up past what the value really is there's no mistake, they want the coin. To take advantage of someone who made an honest error is morally wrong. Now if they had a history of doing this type of thing you might be right.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people think its ok to take advantage financially of someone's honest mistake. Whether the person who made the mistake is honest, dishonest or anything else is irrelevant. Would you feel the same if you made the mistake, your parents, grandparents, best friend or child had made a mistake and someone insisted on holding them to it?
I see where Fairtraderz has another Ebay Auction going that has another Honest Mistake. This time the mistake would be in their favor. The thought comes to mind now that maybe these mistakes are getting way too frequent.
Just maybe BigE has seen this pattern also. I know I have email the guys there about auctions that were not correct a few times.
Quite curious. After the auction ended, what actually transpired? Did they contact you and say "deals off we made a mistake"? A simple way of handling this might have been you sending them the money without knowingly getting their response basically asking them to finish the transaction-sending you the coin. It's not for you to know that THEY made a mistake. You just want the coin....
I would make them buy and or supply me with the coin as stated on e-bay or take the coin they listed by mistake their choice but i would not offer them more for anything else as a buyer you would'nt be let out of this deal by them without a hassle their mistake their hassle they need to make this right with you period
I've bought a few things from them and have been fairly happy with the end results. They seem to be genuinely nice people and are always happy, and willing, to work out any problems. I generally stay away from their auctions now because they are not really "auctions" in my opinion. Most, if not all, of them start high with high buy it nows. Not auctions in my opinion. I would guess that they are dealing with alot more consinements (spelling?) and are restricted by the owners sell pricing. If that's the case with this Arkansas Commem then i would acknowledge the mistake, take the refund, and move on. IMHO of course
I see a lot of comments that generally say "stick it to 'em".
I'm glad to see even more that say "be honest and fair"
How many bidders have won auctions from them and then said "I made a mistake. I bid on way too many auctions this month and I don't have any money left for this coin and rent." or "I know that I won your auction, but my kid had an accident today and I can't afford the coin anymore"
I have dealt with them at a show. The guy with whom I interacted seemed very straight forward and sincerely helpful. Remember, this is a hobby.
When a cashier gives you too much change, do you keep it? Or if the price on the register rings up too low, do you just keep quiet?
But, if on the way out the door, you see where you were double billed for a loaf of bread, do you march back in and demand your money back? Or do you buy something and then see it on sale the next week and return the item just to save the difference? In both cases a proce was given and accepted and money exchanged hands, so "Done deal", right?
We all want the best deal, but we never want someone else to "Best us" What you do is up to you.
My god, well I deal with honest mistakes caused by nice people all day long. If a nice ederly lady hit your car and caused $5000 worth of damage and because of her senility forgot to pay her insurance and had no way to pay your costs would most of you say -- "hey she's a nice lady with a problem remembering so I'll let her off the hook and eat the repairs myself?"
Okay -- bad example, but it makes a point. Nice things happen to nice people all the time. I'm sure no one is sitting around at Fairtrader$ and thinking "hey BigE's a nice guy, maybe we should go ahead and let the coin go at that price."
C'mon, this is their mistake and theirs alone. It doesn't matter if they were nice to you or to a hundred other people. They made a mistake, plain and simple. They should rectify their mistake and take the loss. Why should BigE shoulder the responsibility of their negligence? They have the monetary means to shoulder the loss to a much better degree.
That only allows them to be more negligent in the future. Maybe I'm different then the rest of you, but I pay for my mistakes. It's really the only way you learn.
Michael, let's say...... you buy a coin (for which you have a 7 day unconditional return privilege) for $1000, pay for it, receive it in the mail and place it under some legal documents on your (very messy) desk, intending to look at it later that day.
Ten days later (three days after your return privilege has expired), you get around to the work you've been trying to avoid doing and you find the coin, look at it and frown because it's really ugly (like many of the ones you own, but you don't want to keep THIS particular ugly one).
This was YOUR mistake and your return privilege has expired. If you wish to sell it to someone else, you can only get $850 for it at this time. I believe many dealers would allow you to return the coin because it's a nice/the right thing to do, even though it was YOUR mistake. Sometimes it's ok to be nice and not stick it to the "guilty" party.
Edited to add: Michael, while you don't want to let the dealer off the hook for his mistake, at least you didn't accuse him of being a liar, like a couple of uninformed posters did. I respect your approach even though I disagree with you in this case.
Well, we will see. I bought a "1976-S PCGS PR69DCam Clad Kennedy 50c" with a BIN price of $20.00 a couple days ago (I guess this was a good price). I emailed them about it twice, asking about their "combined shipping" policy as their were a couple others I was interested in. They have not responded to my emails yet. I mailed the payment today. I guess I will see if they follow through and send me the coin.
Frankly, if they are not taking the time to review their listing, that is their problem. If it was in their favor, I am sure they would try to make you pay.
Wow Mark! -- 3 insults in one posts -- that's pretty good -- see, you ARE far from a brown-noser.
By the way, my desk is extremely tidy, my coins aren't ugly and I am a nice guy!
But you are right, I wouldn't stick it to them either. I was just posting my dissenting opinion.
What would I do in this situation if I were BigE or Fairtrader$ -- split the difference between a MS65 and MS66. It probably is the most reasonable way to resolve this issue!
While your solution sounds just/fair, this particular situation is somewhat more complex, due to the fact that the listed item was on consignment to the seller.
Yes, you could try to get the seller to sell it for the split-the-difference-price and then pay the owner the full consigned price, thereby insuring that the seller takes a hit, but....
You guys owe an apology to IWOG. The dealer first said he had x dollars into it and then admits it was on consignment. Those are two different things and IWOG is right that the dealer did not have x dollars into it. It sounds like the dealer is trying to rectify his error by offering to make available another coin at his cost or whatever so this should end up a win win situation for all, but shame on the seller for not being truthful in the first place.
Nothing new to report, I am going to Sacramento soon to visit and I may stop in at Fairtraderz. I understand that they had to hire a new cataloger due to very unfortunate circumstances that were out of their control( a fatal motocycle accident) I wish them well-----------------------BigE
<< <i>..dealer first said he had x dollars into it and then admits it was on consignment >>
Northcoin - I don't think that is necessarily an inconsistency - having "X into it" could easily be construed to mean that was his consignment cost/basis.
And, I believe that he simply explained (rather than "admitted", as in having done something secretive) that the coin was on consignment. He didn't have to disclose that information but did so anyway.
i have been on both ends of the stick on fleabay ! sold a 30 dollar item for .99 and bought a 20 dollar item for 150.00 (seller shafted me with a phony lable and got narued,still lost my money). just bought a 3 dollar lincoln cent for 40 bucks. they put the item up for bid and you bought it,they have an obligation to supply it. if you dont pay u get the nasty NPB warning,3 of those and you suspended indefininately AKA permanent. they should watch theyre auctions more closely if you walked into a show or the store and bought it,are they gonna call you and say they made a mistake ? maybe,does it hold water in court ? no way ! if ya paid 680.00 and crack it out,comes back 64- or 5,are they gonna make it right ? not likely ! the deal just sucks for you !
As I mentioned today in an earlier thread, I no longer do business with these guys. They are one of my only two negatives on e-bay. They failed to deliver me a coin that I won at auction, and I get a negative??? IMO, I would suggest that everyone avoid this seller.
I think you should be good human being and if you still want it offer them closer to what they want and if they say no then walk away. Its not like your going to be out any money.
I find the responses very interesing to this post. Most of the dealers here seem to think that BigE should let them off the hook, while the collectors respond with take the coin. Very interesting. Myself, I think that is does'nt matter why this happened; the seller has an obligation to complete the transaction. Remember listing an item is a contract; plain and simple. All the rest of this banter is just one side trying to justify their feeling.
--------------BigE
Comments
The USPS decided to crack it for you?
42/92
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
It ended april 21'st so I doubt it shipped already.
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
Guess it's up to you... but really, considering how many negs they have... sock it to em if you can...
42/92
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
#2 This dealer sells thousands of coins and was careless about listing it, so he wants you to cover his rear because he's simply too busy to cover it himself.
#3 I guarantee that if this coin walked into his coin shop, (assuming he has a coin shop) and the coin dealer picked it up for $225, you wouldn't hear a peep from anyone. In fact, 40% of greysheet is probably what he'd offer.
#4 Your counter offer to his non-offer is more than fair. The dealer should meet you half way and count himself lucky that you were reasonable.
Don't put up with this treatment.
I see you are still in your every dealer is a bad guy mood.
Ironically, BigE, the one affected here, is much more open-minded and reasonable than you appear to be.
<< <i>40% of greysheet is probably what he'd offer >>
I sell coins to them all the time at shows and can say you are wrong on this point.
Maybe some folks should be a little more informed before they hit the keys and post a message.
Sorry "E" but I think I would let this one go if they did not accept the counter.
Ken
The coin business is a funny business. When I trade stocks it isn't like that. If a mistake is made you eat it. It doesn't matter if you are buying or selling. If you hit buy instead of sell, if you add an extra zero, whatever, you eat your mistake. Believe me you are more careful after you make a mistake. I know from experience
I would let it go and see what kind of an offer they make later this week....
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
Don't forget to let us know how this ends!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
bruce scher
e-mail me here
WINNER:
POTD 8-30-05 (awarded by dthigpen)
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Looks like it's time for a name change for ole "fairtraderz"......let's see, how about "$hitburger" because it sounds like that's what they're feeding you.....bon appetite!
Just maybe BigE has seen this pattern also. I know I have email the guys there about auctions that were not correct a few times.
Fairtraderz.....I know you are busy, but.......
Ken
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
or take the coin they listed by mistake their choice but i would not offer them more
for anything else
as a buyer you would'nt be let out of this deal by them without a hassle
their mistake their hassle they need to make this right with you period
I see a lot of comments that generally say "stick it to 'em".
I'm glad to see even more that say "be honest and fair"
How many bidders have won auctions from them and then said "I made a mistake. I bid on way too many auctions this month and I don't have any money left for this coin and rent." or "I know that I won your auction, but my kid had an accident today and I can't afford the coin anymore"
I have dealt with them at a show. The guy with whom I interacted seemed very straight forward and sincerely helpful. Remember, this is a hobby.
When a cashier gives you too much change, do you keep it? Or if the price on the register rings up too low, do you just keep quiet?
But, if on the way out the door, you see where you were double billed for a loaf of bread, do you march back in and demand your money back? Or do you buy something and then see it on sale the next week and return the item just to save the difference? In both cases a proce was given and accepted and money exchanged hands, so "Done deal", right?
We all want the best deal, but we never want someone else to "Best us" What you do is up to you.
Okay -- bad example, but it makes a point. Nice things happen to nice people all the time. I'm sure no one is sitting around at Fairtrader$ and thinking "hey BigE's a nice guy, maybe we should go ahead and let the coin go at that price."
C'mon, this is their mistake and theirs alone. It doesn't matter if they were nice to you or to a hundred other people. They made a mistake, plain and simple. They should rectify their mistake and take the loss. Why should BigE shoulder the responsibility of their negligence? They have the monetary means to shoulder the loss to a much better degree.
That only allows them to be more negligent in the future. Maybe I'm different then the rest of you, but I pay for my mistakes. It's really the only way you learn.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Sorry for the rant,
Michael
Ten days later (three days after your return privilege has expired), you get around to the work you've been trying to avoid doing and you find the coin, look at it and frown because it's really ugly (like many of the ones you own, but you don't want to keep THIS particular ugly one
This was YOUR mistake and your return privilege has expired. If you wish to sell it to someone else, you can only get $850 for it at this time. I believe many dealers would allow you to return the coin because it's a nice/the right thing to do, even though it was YOUR mistake. Sometimes it's ok to be nice and not stick it to the "guilty" party.
Edited to add: Michael, while you don't want to let the dealer off the hook for his mistake, at least you didn't accuse him of being a liar, like a couple of uninformed posters did. I respect your approach even though I disagree with you in this case.
Frankly, if they are not taking the time to review their listing, that is their problem. If it was in their favor, I am sure they would try to make you pay.
By the way, my desk is extremely tidy, my coins aren't ugly and I am a nice guy!
But you are right, I wouldn't stick it to them either. I was just posting my dissenting opinion.
What would I do in this situation if I were BigE or Fairtrader$ -- split the difference between a MS65 and MS66. It probably is the most reasonable way to resolve this issue!
Michael
While your solution sounds just/fair, this particular situation is somewhat more complex, due to the fact that the listed item was on consignment to the seller.
Yes, you could try to get the seller to sell it for the split-the-difference-price and then pay the owner the full consigned price, thereby insuring that the seller takes a hit, but....
<< <i>..dealer first said he had x dollars into it and then admits it was on consignment >>
Northcoin - I don't think that is necessarily an inconsistency - having "X into it" could easily be construed to mean that was his consignment cost/basis.
And, I believe that he simply explained (rather than "admitted", as in having done something secretive) that the coin was on consignment. He didn't have to disclose that information but did so anyway.
sold a 30 dollar item for .99 and bought a 20 dollar item for 150.00 (seller shafted me with a phony lable and got narued,still lost my money).
just bought a 3 dollar lincoln cent for 40 bucks.
they put the item up for bid and you bought it,they have an obligation to supply it.
if you dont pay u get the nasty NPB warning,3 of those and you suspended indefininately AKA permanent.
they should watch theyre auctions more closely
if you walked into a show or the store and bought it,are they gonna call you and say they made a mistake ?
maybe,does it hold water in court ? no way !
if ya paid 680.00 and crack it out,comes back 64- or 5,are they gonna make it right ? not likely !
the deal just sucks for you !
JMHO
Proof
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.