What is the deal with SGS coin grading (slabbing)?

Zakgold

I want to share this with the forum so the same thing DOES NOT happend to you.

In a nut shell, stay away from SGS grading. Here's why...first, there is no phone number listed for this "grading" service. Second, there is no business listed anywhere in the local business directory for that area. Third, their website is nothing more than a single page of pretty much nothing. Fourth and probably my biggest reason never to buy their graded coins again is that they seem to work exclusively with an ebay seller, "Aboncom" that sells only SGS graded coins! This seller is listed in the SAME geographic area as SGS coins! Makes you wanna go, "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm".

Also, 99% of their coins have a PR70 grading. Now how in the world is that possible for this Ohio based company that started out in 2003 to acquire only MS70 or PR70 coins? Still, I was tempted to bid and and I bought two of these graded coins. I haven't bought coins in years and I'll admit it, I didn't do my homework at the time. Now I do!

I will also admit that I left postive feedback for them immediately upon receipt (as per proper ebay protocal). However, the more I looked at them after I got a better magnifying glass, I became disappointed. The slab was made of cheap fishing-tackle plastic and the grade didn't look PR70. Their "seal" was nothing more than a gold foil tape on the top and bottom of the slab. Their certificate was something that came out of a word.doc. I took this to my local dealer and he laughed at me. Not totally convinced, I sent them to PCGS (for a crossover) and they wouldn't grade them since I put PR68DCAM as the minimum grade. Both of these coins didn't make a PR68DCAM grade and they were both "SGS certified" as PR70DCAM!

Here's what I think is goinig on...Aboncom (ebay seller) set up their own grading service so that novice's (coin rookie suckers) like myself would gladly bid on a 70 grade. Why not? All looks good and this will surely drive up the bids as the ultimate "70 grade" gets wiggled in front of your face. I contacted them (email) and I was quickly "blocked" from doing any future business with Aboncom (the ebay seller). All this happened because I asked, "who is SGS grading?".

Now it makes sense...both Aboncom and SGS reside in the same state and I bet they are very close to one another...if not one in the same! Aboncom and SGS slabs must by ONE in the SAME!! All the pieces fit!

I only lost around $40 plus the cost of the cross over, but now it is the principle of the matter.

Pass the word...like everything else, "If it is too good to be true, then don't buy it!"

tsacch

Live and learn. I own one acg coin.............one pci coin..............two numistrust coins.............. We all learn..........and from your experience, hopefully others will learn.

Russ

<< <i>Aboncom and SGS slabs must by ONE in the SAME!! >>



You have correctly assessed the situation.

And, welcome to the funny farm!

Russ, NCNE

JrGMan2004

Welcome to the forums, and hopefully you'll stick around for a while...

tjkillian

Welcome to the forums I tend to collect 19th century coins so I have not had any experience with them, but thanks for the heads up. I tend to be bias toward PCGS as I, too, have been burned by overgrading.

I hope you will stick around, anyone who contributes is more than welcome!

Tom

MassFullStepper

It's funny that this thread came up. On a whim, a WHIM mind you, I did pick up a set of their 'MS70' 2004 P & D Jeff's, thinking that even if they were overgraded by 3 pts, I would still have MS67 examples. Well, they were no better than the ones I got from the mint in rolls. Almost identical marks all the way around. Sent them back to Abon for a refund, and as you could guess, havent gotten it yet. Now, I emailed Star Grading Services asking what grading standards they used. Got a reply, but nothing to do with grading standards, and this is what I got in reply...

We currently are takig no new dealers as we are swamped with coins. We do have a 3 month waiting list if you want on it.

Lawrence

Then, after lambasting them for crappy holders (not even sonically sealed...much like the CoinWorld slabs), and wondering, as Zakgold noticed they are both in Ohio, though in different cities, what they MAY have to do with one another... this is what I got in reply:

Hi,

I can tell you that Abon certainly does have a financial interest in SGS,
and that is no secret Hmmmmm!

Have a nice day.

Lawrence


And they are consistently selling 'MS70' and 'PR70' like there is no tomorrow. ANYONE could do this, as NWCG and a few others are doing. It makes me nauseous and puts a serious black mark on this fine hobby. I must add this to this post....if you call Abon's number, you get a message that you can either talk with Abon or their 'collectibles' branch which is named 'Star Collectibles'.....the truth will come out and I think its just starting...by the way...its funny that Zak said 'HMMMMMM"...the Hmmmmm in the reply to me from Lawrence was put there by HIM and not by me...the replies I posted from him are exactly from his email and I can forward them to anyone that wishes to see them.

ksteelheader

XpipedreamR

Welcome, and don't be too POed about it. Learning experience...you know, that whole thing.

And you've certainly earned the right to b*tch and laugh at the cheesiness of some of these bottom feeders!

Hadleydog

Wecome aboard, Zakgold.
I would say you have rather inexpensively learned a very valuable lesson, thankfully your purchase was not on a rarity.
Stick with the big 3 ( PCGS, NGC and ANACS) untill you are familiar with your series, but if you like moderns I would only buy PCGS...........just look at the price differences between the slabs!

FatMan

Here's a Big Fat Welcome to ya!

I believe you entire assessment regarding Abon and SGS is correct. Sorry about your final grade from the school of hard knocks. The good news is that finding this forum has allowed you to graduate and attend a school of higher learning.

Zakgold

MassFullStepper...

There was a song years back titled, "Things That Make You Go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm". After trying to figure out how Ashland, Ohio is the home of PR70 and MS70 "certified" coins sold primarily by ONE ebay seller, how could you NOT go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!?! I should have added a "verrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting" comment after the Hmmmmmm too!

It is pretty ironic that your reply from them included the "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" because somebody must be taking notice. This is a black eye on the hobby and I for sure hate being suckered. Hopefuly, the word will get out and people will do some researching before they buy.

I learned a lesson, so hopefully others will as I did. I am glad I found this forum because I saw a post in another forum asking about SGS grading in which I HAD to reply. See hat happens when you stir the pot?

SGS Grading from Ashland, Ohio....the home of PR70 and MS70 certified slabbed coins.....Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh well...another lesson learned in the life of collecting coins!

koynekwest

Abon/SGS are one and the same-mainly into sports cards. I've been in their shop-NOT the friendliest people around. Their shop is located in Mansfield OH. Ashland is right down the road.

MassFullStepper

Zak...I am not a young 'un...lol...I remember that song...but its funny you put 'Hmmmmmmmm' here on the 18th, when Lawerence, from SGS used 'Hmmmmmmm' on the 15th....makes you REALLY go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...and yes, Koynekwest is right about the Mansfield/Ashland thing and proximity...well Zak...Hadleydog is right..use only the big three...I NORMALLY do...but, as I said, I KNEW it would be a crapshoot hoping for even 3 point difference in grade, but HOLY LIGHTNING, these things were MS64/65 at VERY best, on a day the graders wife was out cheating on him the night before AND the dog getting run over that day, by the guy that stole his car, just after the doctor called and said he wanted to see him regarding that...I guess you get my drift. I will never even look at another auction with their stuff on it...and those non-sonically sealed, using-just-gold-tape to seal it, well, mine had marks consistent with someone trying to peel it off and re-stick it....there are poor services, but hell, even ACG came up with a marketable slab. Star Grading Service is a joke at the very best.

Zakgold

There you have it...the first MS70 2004 nickels are available from SGS coin grading through the ebay seller, Aboncom.

They did it again, this Ohio based "company" was able to secure MS70 grades and got them listed on ebay. That is super fast and they should be commended!

Matter of fact, I am excited at the bank rolls of uncirculated coins (quarters and dollars) I just got for my kid's allowance (they like coins, especially the SAC dollars)...maybe I should hold off since they are probably MS70 grade if I send them to SGS coin grading. Sorry kids, Daddy is going to get your allowance graded at SGS to MS70. Hey, that looks shinny with full luster...maybe it isn't a MS70, it may be a PR70!!

Like I said, I bit and as a novice, I got screwed...now, I'll make sure others don't get taken like I did!




TextMS70 2004

Russellp23

Welcome and I too made the mistake of buying one coin from them, but if you look at any of the coins, especially the ones that say cameo, they are not even close to a cameo. Cheap lesson, there's other's out there too, but as was said before stick with the big 3 and there shouldn't be a problem.

Brianruns10

Although I think a lot of these slabbing companies are less than respectable (ACG I'm looking your way-so sue me, I'm a college student), we coin collectors aren't entirely innocent. Too often, collectors buy the slab, and not the coin. I see so many numismatists who are all about population and the grade. Save for frequently faked coins like the 09-S VDB and the 16-D, I buy coins raw, because I don't care if its a 64 or 65, but rather how nice it looks to me. And when I do buy slabbed, I don't have qualms about who slabbed it, because I dont' care about the slab. Once I bought a 1911-D weak D quarter eagle that was in an SEGS holder. Do I wish it was in a PCGS slab. Sure. Do I regret I got the coin? No. I didn't buy the slab, I bought the coin. I spent considerable time studying the diagnostics of this coin, and I knew what traits I was looking for. I didn't just take the company's word for it. The coin was graded EF-45, and was cleaned. I could tell it was cleaned. However, I still liked the coin, and for the price I got it for I was perfectly happy. To sum it up, I'm not endorsing SEGS, but I'm not endorsing PCGS either. Collectors need to take a step back, stop buying slabs, and start buying coins.
Best,
BR

cdwegner

they have an amazing 99.2% rating, too.

jtwax

Sad isn't it. I had a buddy who was bidding on a, you guessed it, MS70, Jefferson nickel and did not recieve the coin pictured. When he inquired he was immediately blocked fom any future purchases. I emailed him and asked why all his coins were graded MS70 and PR70 and got no response, but blocked from his ebay dealings... he ranks right up there with "them other people". For most dates and mints don't waste your time or money on MS70 coins - they are few and far between.

Welcome!

melikecoins

(as per proper ebay protocal).

I didn't there was a ebay protocal

Glen

astrorat

Welcome to the Board and welcome to collecting. Your experience is not novel and will continue to be repeated as long as coins are collected. Remember one simple rule when buying coins in an open market and you will not be "victimized" by overgrading, "rarity", etc. That rule is:

There ain't no Santa Clause in numismatics.

That is another way of stating "you get what you pay for".

This is often a difficult thing for those new to the hobby to understand unless they have been involved with other collectible, such as stamps, BB cards, etc. New collectors are used to the idea that descriptions of items (grades) are transportable across retailers, like with TV's and VCR's, but that is not the case. When you add the subjectivity of grading and no overriding "authority" to monitor accuracy, you have different descriptions that mean the "same". Such is the legacy of market grading in open commerce.

Of course, this is ultimately controlled by the open market. As you witnessed, you can purchase PF-70 certified coins at many different prices based on the company that certified them. Coins from "lower tier" TPG's (third party grading companies) bring significantly less money that the "big four" and a lot less than the "top two".

What is horrid is when "dealers" sell their non-mainstream TGP slabbed coins, but quote the PCGS pricing for the coin, knowing full well that they are comparing apples and oranges.

Lane

EvilMCT

Welcome to the boards.

Ken