A high starting bid is not the same as a reserve. If you're the high bidder on this coin, you win. Nothing wrong with this auction.
A reserve is the childish game that some sellers play when they decide that buyers can make pretend bids. The theory is that bidders will become excited with their fake bids and bid even more, eventually sending the price over the limit into real bid territory.
In practice, sellers who do this generally have no grasp on reality and think that THEY set the price instead of the market. Like many others, I tend to avoid reserve auctions as a complete waste of time.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
It does seem rather silly when a seller yells "NO RESERVE!" in the auction title and then proceeds to put the opening bid at retail. It's not an auction.
Auctions that start at retail are so pointless. The person would have more bidding and probably pass that figure if they started it at $0.01. I don't care if I have to eventually bid $800 or whatever, everyone just likes the idea of seeing that $0.01 start. Also some people bid $0.02 on those to put them in their my ebay when your watchlist is full.
Of course, an auction can have both a high opening price as well as a reserve price. Nevertheless, it's certainly accurate to say that a high opening bid is simply a non-secret reserve price. Anyone who adsvertises their auctions otherwise are either uninformed or are being deceptive.
>reserve: The minimum amount the coin will be sold for. >Starting bid: The minimum amount the coin will be sold for. >Hmmmm......do those to definitions sound alike?
Nice job Dave, you just made the following logical argument.
Ice: Made of water Steam: made of water Conclusion: Ice and steam are identical.
How silly can you get.
A seller who uses a reserve is saying "Hey man, you can buy my coins but I'm not gonna tell you how much. Just start offering me money and when you get high enough, I'll sell you the coin." It's arrogant and rude and has the effect of making all bids below the reserve meaningless and a waste of time. I avoid reserve auctions and I know plenty of people who do also.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
He has every right to advertise as No Reserve. A person bidding the minimum on this coin is making a real offer that must be honored. A person bidding the minimum on a reserve coin is making a pretend bid that means nothing and has no effect on anyone.
One person is telling the buyer what he'll take for the coin. One person is playing games and being childish.
Clear difference, no?
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
Remember, a pound of feather weighs the same as a pound of lead. It just seems different.
Non-sequitur. You're continuing to make points that aren't even being discussed. I'm not sure why.
Please explain why a seller needs to force potential buyers to make pretend meaningless bids. In my opinion, forcing a buyer to make pretending meaningless bids is arrogant and childish. Arrogant because the seller is saying that the MARKET cannot be trusted to determine value, and childish because forcing buyers to make pretend bids is.........well.........childish.
Now address the above paragraph and stop answering "dey is da same bro!!!!!! Really dey is!!!"
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
Someone selling an item with a high opening bid is offering an object for sale at a given price. He's testing the market.
A person offering an item with a reserve isn't testing anything since no one knows what price he's asking. He's arrogant since he's taking actual bids and each time a bid doesn't meet the reserve, he's telling that person "Your offer is WRONG!!!! Bad bidder, you cannot play!"
There's such a clear difference here I can't believe you're even arguing the point. Anyway, since you didn't object to the second part of my argument, I assume you now agree that people who use reserves on ebay are at least childish.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
No, there isn't. And nothing you've posted constitutes compelling reasoning demonstrating otherwise. Just a jumbled tangle of words masquerading as "argument", when in reality they are nothing more than circular gibberish.
<< <i>A reserve and starting price have the same net effect (ya ain't getting it for a dime less!). If you can, tell me how! >>
On a reserve auction the seller has an amount he wants to get and even if he doesn't get it he gets a list of potentially interested people plus an idea of how much they may be willing to pay for it. If he feels that they may be reasonably close he may contact the high bidder and offer it for less to make the sale. After all, no fees so might do as well even at the lower price. (Not legal under eBay rules but it does happen.)
With a high starting bid you have the absolute minnimum he will take and if no one bites at that level he has none of the interest information or possible buyers list that the reserve seller has. So he has to do another auction but he has no idea how unreasonable his starting bid is so all he can do is make another stab in the dark as to value
Exactly the same from a bidder's perspective, in terms of what matters, the minimum money it will take to win the coin. I really don't care about the other nuances.
In one case the amount is hidden, in one case it's not. I don't have a problem with either format --- I just pass on most if these "auctions". Of course, I use the term "auction" very loosely.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
dont think so...the seller is just saying that you have the chance to actually get the item...I like it better then they have reserve and you bid and end of auction it just says sorry but reserve not met and you dont win it even if you were high bidder
eBay has defined what a reserve is and what an minumum bid is and the difference between the two. It's their site and the seller is utilizing ebay's definitions. If you don't like eBay's definitions, don't blame the sellers.
I recently attended a "no Reserve, No minimum" auction on a piece of commercial property.
The auctioneer asked for bids of 1 million, then $750k, then $500K, then $400k, then $300k..... no bidders yet so he said "Well - the auction is closed since we have no bids."
I called them later and said I thought it was no reserve, no minimum. He told me "it was, but we had no bids".
1) Those with a reserve...seller gets info on bidders & what they were willing to pay. Whether or not they sell the item at or above the reserve, they can contact other bidders & sell outside of eBay, whether it be the item on eBay (if reserve was not met) or they have similar items to sell.
2) Those without a reserve, but start with the minimum they will accept for the item. They have an amount that they want for the item &, at the time they placed the item on eBay, thought someone might bid that amount
2a) Those without a reserve, but start at an unusually low amount, i.e. 0.01. They trust the 'market' to determine what the worth of the item is & will sell at whatever the market bears.
2b) Those without a reserve, but start at an unusually low amount, i.e. 0.01. They will see what the 'market' determines what the worth of the item is & will end the auction early if they think it is too low.
Personally I like auctions #2 & 2a, will I bid on #1......yes, but I don't perticularly like them. One point that has not been discussed, up to this point this the BIG difference between a RESERVE auction & one wuth a high start, if I bid OVER the RESERVE but my 'high bid' at the time does not meet the RESERVE isn't there a chance I will not win the auction. I've bidded on some auctions where my bid goes automatically to the RESERVE while others just go to the 'high bid'. Have I bid on #2b....yes
Really, it's just personal preference, are both auctions the same at the start of the auction, I think not. Once the reserve is met, then, yes, I think they are both similar.
Ha! I scoff at all you arrogant ebay sellers who start your auctions at high minimum bids or reserve prices! Me, I trust the MARKET to determine the true value of my item, because the widsom of the open market will always dictate a coin's true worth! So i start all MY auctions at $1.00 with NO reserve! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to check some of my auctions which are ending right now..........Oops! Another one of my Proof Morgans just went for $1.25!! @#&$&%&%**#&!!!
Comments
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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A reserve is the childish game that some sellers play when they decide that buyers can make pretend bids. The theory is that bidders will become excited with their fake bids and bid even more, eventually sending the price over the limit into real bid territory.
In practice, sellers who do this generally have no grasp on reality and think that THEY set the price instead of the market. Like many others, I tend to avoid reserve auctions as a complete waste of time.
IWOG, please.......
Reserve: The minimum amount the coin will be sold for.
Starting bid: The minimum amount the coin will be sold for.
Hmmmm......do those to definitions sound alike?
Dave
Russ, NCNE
>Starting bid: The minimum amount the coin will be sold for.
>Hmmmm......do those to definitions sound alike?
Nice job Dave, you just made the following logical argument.
Ice: Made of water
Steam: made of water
Conclusion: Ice and steam are identical.
How silly can you get.
A seller who uses a reserve is saying "Hey man, you can buy my coins but I'm not gonna tell you how much. Just start offering me money and when you get high enough, I'll sell you the coin." It's arrogant and rude and has the effect of making all bids below the reserve meaningless and a waste of time. I avoid reserve auctions and I know plenty of people who do also.
One person is telling the buyer what he'll take for the coin.
One person is playing games and being childish.
Clear difference, no?
Remember, a pound of feather weighs the same as a pound of lead. It just seems different.
Don't bite on the seems part! A reserve and starting price have the same net effect (ya ain't getting it for a dime less!). If you can, tell me how!
Dave
Non-sequitur. You're continuing to make points that aren't even being discussed. I'm not sure why.
Please explain why a seller needs to force potential buyers to make pretend meaningless bids. In my opinion, forcing a buyer to make pretending meaningless bids is arrogant and childish. Arrogant because the seller is saying that the MARKET cannot be trusted to determine value, and childish because forcing buyers to make pretend bids is.........well.........childish.
Now address the above paragraph and stop answering "dey is da same bro!!!!!! Really dey is!!!"
<< <i>Arrogant because the seller is saying that the MARKET cannot be trusted to determine value >>
Which is, of course, precisely what the seller is doing with a high opening bid rather than a reserve. Duh.
Russ, NCNE
A person offering an item with a reserve isn't testing anything since no one knows what price he's asking. He's arrogant since he's taking actual bids and each time a bid doesn't meet the reserve, he's telling that person "Your offer is WRONG!!!! Bad bidder, you cannot play!"
There's such a clear difference here I can't believe you're even arguing the point. Anyway, since you didn't object to the second part of my argument, I assume you now agree that people who use reserves on ebay are at least childish.
But please, just answer the one question which I have asked, and impress me a little. So far you're not making much sense.
A reserve and starting price have the same net effect (ya ain't getting it for a dime less!). If you can, tell me how!
(it's a tough one, I know)
Dave
PS Please don't dodge it again. You're losing credibility with me.
<< <i>There's such a clear difference here >>
No, there isn't. And nothing you've posted constitutes compelling reasoning demonstrating otherwise. Just a jumbled tangle of words masquerading as "argument", when in reality they are nothing more than circular gibberish.
Russ, NCNE
Dave
<< <i>A reserve and starting price have the same net effect (ya ain't getting it for a dime less!). If you can, tell me how! >>
On a reserve auction the seller has an amount he wants to get and even if he doesn't get it he gets a list of potentially interested people plus an idea of how much they may be willing to pay for it. If he feels that they may be reasonably close he may contact the high bidder and offer it for less to make the sale. After all, no fees so might do as well even at the lower price. (Not legal under eBay rules but it does happen.)
With a high starting bid you have the absolute minnimum he will take and if no one bites at that level he has none of the interest information or possible buyers list that the reserve seller has. So he has to do another auction but he has no idea how unreasonable his starting bid is so all he can do is make another stab in the dark as to value
Seems to me the reserve makes more sense.
In one case the amount is hidden, in one case it's not. I don't have a problem with either format --- I just pass on most if these "auctions". Of course, I use the term "auction" very loosely.
Dave
The auctioneer asked for bids of 1 million, then $750k, then $500K, then $400k, then $300k..... no bidders yet so he said "Well - the auction is closed since we have no bids."
I called them later and said I thought it was no reserve, no minimum. He told me "it was, but we had no bids".
and that was that.
My Auctions
1) Those with a reserve...seller gets info on bidders & what they were willing to pay. Whether or not they sell the item at or above the reserve, they can contact other bidders & sell outside of eBay, whether it be the item on eBay (if reserve was not met) or they have similar items to sell.
2) Those without a reserve, but start with the minimum they will accept for the item. They have an amount that they want for the item &, at the time they placed the item on eBay, thought someone might bid that amount
2a) Those without a reserve, but start at an unusually low amount, i.e. 0.01. They trust the 'market' to determine what the worth of the item is & will sell at whatever the market bears.
2b) Those without a reserve, but start at an unusually low amount, i.e. 0.01. They will see what the 'market' determines what the worth of the item is & will end the auction early if they think it is too low.
Personally I like auctions #2 & 2a, will I bid on #1......yes, but I don't perticularly like them. One point that has not been discussed, up to this point this the BIG difference between a RESERVE auction & one wuth a high start, if I bid OVER the RESERVE but my 'high bid' at the time does not meet the RESERVE isn't there a chance I will not win the auction.
I've bidded on some auctions where my bid goes automatically to the RESERVE while others just go to the 'high bid'.
Have I bid on #2b....yes
Really, it's just personal preference, are both auctions the same at the start of the auction, I think not. Once the reserve is met, then, yes, I think they are both similar.