A Post every Darksider should read as well !!!

Askari

Sunnywood on "profiting" from rare coins

cosmicdebris

Profiting?????????? Who's selling?

Askari

<< <i>Profiting?????????? Who's selling? >>

Why, those trying to lose money, of course!

ccrdragon

Regardless - it is a very well written post and very well thought out.

It also adds some very good reasons that I usually 'break-even' on the coins that I sell....

Clankeye

There is certainly much of interest there. His perspective toward the end of the whole "racket" aspect of the coin business--the crackouts, the insider grades, the flipping of coins from dealer to dealer... and I think he was/is in a unique position to know.

But, I think the best advice comes down to this:



<< <i>Buy coins to enjoy them, and try to be smart enough not to LOSE too much money. You can't outsmart the coin market any more than the stock market. But you can educate yourself to the point where you don't do stupid things. >>



Yes, buy coins to enjoy them.


Clankeye

laurentyvan

My advice: don't buy coins to make money. You can't, unless you get lucky, or you work with a truly top seasoned professional. Buy coins to enjoy them, and try to be smart enough not to LOSE too much money. You can't outsmart the coin market any more than the stock market. But you can educate yourself to the point where you don't do stupid things.

I have to echo Clankeye in quoting Sunnywood here.

I never buy coins with the intention of reselling them for a profit. However, that doesn't mean I don't look hard at what I'm paying vs (however inaccurate) printed market value, with an eye towards "gee, what If I ever had to dump it all for what I could get." The exception would be a rarity of sufficient cost that I might buy it with an intention of reselling it at some point in the future if I felt it was out of favor or ignored but of potential worth.

Sound advice, well rendered by Sunnywood.

Let me ask you all a question- who among us is adverse to working angles, profiting when we can to expand our collections?

I guess we all take chances; after all, money is money. If I'm browsing a flea market or at an auction, I'm always figuring value vs asking price on the items I see. If I see a bargain, I'll grab it with an eye for resale-who wouldn't? Well, coins is an area where I rarely do. If the price is fair, I usually buy it for the collection; to keep, not resell. That's just me...

wybrit

Good post and in the long run, good advice.

SYRACUSIAN

Granted that (15%) is still better than most collectibles hobbies (even including art & antiques) where you'd be lucky to get 50% of what you paid, unless you are collecting at the most expensive high-end levels.


Excellent point. Collectors should get used to the idea that this is an expensive hobby , wether they keep all their holdings,
or sell them in a relatively short period. I think of it as a rent one has to pay to be able to keep something that is of value .



But mainly I sold for the usual reason: I had been so obsessed, and had put so much money into it, that I couldn't justify it any more !!

Another very important point: control your obsessions as good as possible (all collectors are obsessed) , and do not hesitate to let go if needed.
Let go, it's less painful than you thought !

ClausUrch

Dammit, Clankeye, now we have to kill you for again letting out "The Secret"!

MacCrimmon

<< <i>His perspective toward the end of the whole "racket" aspect of the coin business--the crackouts, the insider grades, the flipping of coins from dealer to dealer... >>


Crackouts are fine. The TPGs are not gods and they do make mistakes. If I find a superb gem unc. coin in a PCGS MS65 slab; buy it; crack it out because I feel there's an 80% chance it would grade "66", and then 8 out of 10 dealers/collecters at an auction clamor for the right of ownership of this 'wonder gem' (now in a PCGS MS66 slab), who was right? PCGS the first time or PCGS and the bidders the second time? To me, the saddest part is that the "market" will not bid "moon money" (Legend/Lightside term ) on a truly great coin unless the gods decree it so.

Flipping is fine from dealer to dealer (just don't be on the tail end of the "flip" as a collector unless that particular coin is truly rare). Is it a coin which is a must for your collection? Is it likely you will not see it on the market again for 15-25 years? This is why it is paramount to develop close relationships with a select few dealers who are forthright, and who now their area of specialization better than the vast majority of 'hucksters' simply looking to make a quick buck. The close relationships will ensure you are getting the first shot at great coins instead of being subjected to a feeding frenzy at some point during the flipping process.

The most damning issue, however, is the question of insider grades. Do a select few receive selected "favors"? Stick around long enough in the business or hobby side of coins (or anything else for that matter), and you can then form your own opinions.

Mac

Clankeye

Mac--
I wrote that line as a quick overview, kind of pointing to certain things Sunnywood discusses in more detail and better than I did.

Yes, crackouts aren't all bad, and nothing wrong with dealers flipping coins. It's all to degrees. Pretty much anything can do be taken to a shady place depending on how the angle is worked.

I would guess, most of all, Sunnywood's post is about educating yourself to certain realities of the coin experience.

Posts like his--and yours, as an addition to this thread--are important for people to read.

Clankeye

pruebas

OLD THREAD ALERT!

Since this place has been kind of dull lately, I’ll resurrect an occasional “oldie but goodie” for your reading pleasure.

Enjoy this 21 year old thread, which points to an even older thread. Timeless advice contained therein.

threefifty

Very interesting read. Thank you for sharing!

NorthStar

If I only knew...Thanks for a fun read. I just wonder if there's a lot of people rushing towards the numismatic exits?

coinkat

I don't see that there is any rush to leave numismatics... either in 2003/04 or in 2025.

bidask

Long term long term long term

cladking

Numismatic is is so seductive because you quickly learn how to buy cheap. But getting your money back is the hard part. You can buy rare Gems on the cheap and even after two decades ofttimes still no one wants them.

For the main part your best bet in the hobby is to collect and finance as much of it as you can flipping coins that are just too cheap. If you have a good eye your heirs will do alright.

PhilArnold

Some great people in this old thread that we’ve lost along the way.

davewesen

@pruebas said:
OLD THREAD ALERT!

Since this place has been kind of dull lately, I’ll resurrect an occasional “oldie but goodie” for your reading pleasure.

Enjoy this 21 year old thread, which points to an even older thread. Timeless advice contained therein.

Thanks for linking

I wonder if Heritage is still coin auction dollar volume leader or if GreatCollections, StacksBowers, ??? have caught them

MasonG

MasonG on profiting from not-so-rare coins...

Based on the coins he described, I'm not even in the same pool as Sunnywood, more like the pond out back. My selling experience is with lower valued ($10 to $50, mostly) world coins and it's been very good. Selling coins in this slice of the market has allowed me to pay off my mortgage 10 years early and afford to retire before I anticipated I'd be able to. As well, I have put aside a selection of very nice $200 to $2500 coins for my personal collection and still have a good sized inventory to continue selling from. All of this, from an initial $200 (+/-) investment of extras, pretty much all sold on eBay. Of course, there was also a significant investment of time, but still- what's not to like? I can't speak for others, but I'm in no rush to hit the exit.