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Any reports welcomed re: the half disme at Long Beach & Dunsmore's Painting of Washington &quot

northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Long Beach show will feature the best known specimen of the 1792 half disme. Apparently the U.S. Mint in Philidalphia has on display a painting by John Ward Dunsmore showing George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and others viewing these first coins of which only 1500 to 2000 were made. Can anyone here link to an internet site that would show the subject painting?

Hey, it is Easter Morning. Anyone out there looking for a challenge in helping to locate a link to a copy of the above painting?

...... edited to add: Thanks to all who posted regarding the painting and the half disme - these the first coins authorized by congress and made available for circulation in the United States

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    No painting yet but HERE is a write up on the event.
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    They may have something here:

    Opened on a limited basis. U. S. Mint Coin Sets, commemorative coins, numismatic collectables, books, games and U. S. Mint souvenirs are available. Please call the store directly at 215-408-0230 for sales information.
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone having any luck in finding a link to the painting itself?
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can anyone confirm that this painting is actually at the Philadelphia Mint by having seen it there?
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    NapNap Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is the closest I can find. It's a medal with the image from the painting on the obverse

    Medal link
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks. That medal rendition is appreciated. I assume anyone else who has gone Googling trying to find a link to the painting has had the same lack of luck that I had. Perhaps a copy of the painting is in a numismatic book that someone here has access to and they can take a photo of it and post same?

    As an added thought it would be neat if the U.S.Mint or whoever has the original painting could loan it to the Long Beach show so that it could be displayed along with the best known half disme that will be appearing there.
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the John Reich Journal:

    The last article was by Stephen A. Crain, a half dime specialist and frequent contributor. Stephen's article was "Inspection of the First Coins of the First United States Mint." Stephen stated that "As photography would not become a reality until 1840, no photographs of the original mint are available today. Certainly, no photographs are available of such a historically significant event as the presentation of the very first United States coins." He shares with the readers the story behind and a 10" X 7" print (from a 1916 calendar) that he acquired of the John Ward Dunsmore painting "Inspection of the First Coins of the First United States Mint." Stephen is an avid collector of half dimes, and of course, the first coins produced by the Mint were the 1792 half dismes (dimes).

    So all you have to do is find the calendar or Stephen A. Crain.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Andy, thanks for that lead. It appears from the John Reich Journal website that back issues of Volume 13, issue 1, July 2000 containing the article by Stephen Crain and the reproduction of the painting from the 1916 Calendar may no longer be available. Anyone here have a collection of the John Reich Journal that would include that article and reproduction? If so would welcome seeing a scan linked or posted here. Separately I'd be interested in securing a copy of the July 2000 journal if anyone has one for sale - please PM me if so.
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    Mint souvenir store had nothing.
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone still searching?
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    Smoebody got to have something on this.

    I'll bet if Andrian shows up he would know.
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CosmicDebris -

    That should make it easy. Frank Stewart donated the painting, so he probably pictured it in his book “History of the First United States Mint”. Anyone out there have a copy?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    Amazon has 1 copy of the book listed for $268.23image
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
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    krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    If anyone has a copy, it would be Rittenhouse.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a common book and should NOT be expensive. I'll bet there are at least a dozen copies owned by Forum members.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a "picture of the picture." A picture of this painting is on page 20 of Frank H. Stewart's History of the First United States Mint, but it's a B&W photo. It's also on the original dust jacket of the Quarterman reprint of that book.

    image

    This picture is neat, but it is historically inaccurate. The 1792 half dimes were all minted during one day in July, I think it was the 17th. That same month the government purchased the land where the first U.S. mint was built. Therefore there was no mint building and the coins could not have been made there. The best guess was that they were produced in the workshop of John Harper under the supervision of Thomas Jefferson, who was the secretary of state. Although Alexander Hamilton was the secretary of the treasury, Jefferson was responsible for the mint.

    Note that there is a sketch on the wall of the Ms. Liberty that appeared on the obverse of the half disme.

    I believe that I saw this painting at the Philadelphia, in the early 1980s behind the display of "the 1792 coin press" (which the Gallery Mint folks say is a planchet cutter). There is or was a reproduction of it on an outside wall of the Philadelphia Mint that faces toward Independence Hall.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    RGLRGL Posts: 3,784
    I don't know what the artist was basing his rendition on. He was not born until 1856... therefore, I guess it is a fanciful "guess" of the actual scene rather than historically accurate.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It was claimed for a long time that the 1792 half disme was the first U.S. coin to be made at the mint. Then people put the dates together for the purchase of the mint property and the appearance of the coin, and they saw that it could not have been the first coin.

    As for artist's conceptions, that's true for many famous paintings of the places and events. The more famous painting of the First U.S. mint buildings by Lamazure was an impossible view of the facility. There were other structures around the mint buildings that made that view impossible. Still, that's how collectors see them in their minds because no known pictures were painted of the first mint while it was in operation.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A special thanks to Bill Jones for locating and posting a copy of the painting! Thanks for adding the (hard to see) information about a picture of Ms. Liberty hanging on the wall that matches the Ms. Liberty on the obverse of the 1792 half disme. It would be interesting to have a detailed enough view to see if the artist's rendition of Mrs. George Washington appears to intentionally resemble the Ms. Liberty on the wall. (One of the additional "colonial legends" that has been suggested at least in recent years is that Mrs.George Washington was the model for Ms. Liberty on the half disme.)
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    RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 565 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This picture is neat, but it is historically inaccurate. The 1792 half dimes were all minted during one day in July, I think it was the 17th. That same month the government purchased the land where the first U.S. mint was built. Therefore there was no mint building and the coins could not have been made there. The best guess was that they were produced in the workshop of John Harper under the supervision of Thomas Jefferson, who was the secretary of state. Although Alexander Hamilton was the secretary of the treasury, Jefferson was responsible for the mint.

    Note that there is a sketch on the wall of the Ms. Liberty that appeared on the obverse of the half disme.

    I believe that I saw this painting at the Philadelphia, in the early 1980s behind the display of "the 1792 coin press" (which the Gallery Mint folks say is a planchet cutter). There is or was a reproduction of it on an outside wall of the Philadelphia Mint that faces toward Independence Hall. >>



    The picture isn't just inaccurate, it's made up hogwash painted 120 years after the fact! Julian found records showing Washington was away the day they were delivered (July 13). Also by this time Voigt is Chief Coiner (he started June 1) and Eckfeldt is out of the picture. The coinge was stuck in Harper's workshop. Jefferson supervised and received the coinage - this is recorded in his personal papers.

    The screw press the Mint claims is the "first press, and made by Eckfeldt" is, in fact, a common cutting or stamping press circa 1850 - the machine-made screws and casting gives it away. I told the Mint this 20 years ago. They weren't very happy with me.



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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obviously a little artistic license there, but seems to have all the players together in the same way we would photoshop the missing family members into a family portrait today. Who is to say Jefferson didn't hold a big party so that everyone could get together to see the coins after he had already picked up the coins in Washington's absence?
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone interested in the discussion of the half disme has to take a look at the separate thread started by Cladiator titled Mrs. Washington's Silver in order to see the nice specimen owned and posted there by Bill Jones!
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone have any details on the half disme that is scheduled to be on display at the Long Beach show?
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    Another place this painting appears is in the Heritage Legacy (a defunct periodical), Summer 1990 issue.

    The feature article is entitled "The Mint and Pattern Coinage of 1792" by R.W. Julian.

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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the additional reference.
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone have any details on the half disme that is scheduled to be on display at the Long Beach show?

    From the LB Expo site:

    We are happy have as our main exhibit, the Finest Known 1792 Half Disme graded MS 68 by NGC, which is valued at over $1,500,000.00. It will be displayed courtesy of Bob Higgins and Don Ketterling of Certified Assets Management, Inc. managing the Rare Coin Alliance. Ltd. Trading Fund.


    I don't know which coin they have. The best ones I've seen are as follows:

    Jimmy Hayes (Superb and very colorful)
    James A. Stack (Superb and Specimen PL, very light toning)
    Pittman (Superb, pretty, but just a bit on the darkish side)

    I'm probably missing a couple...

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the details. Inputing "half disme" and "long beach" on Google brings up a detailed article and at the end of the article is a nice photo of the half disme adjacent to a NGC MS68 label. Perhaps someone who know how can provide us a link in their reply post.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Link?
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭




    Below is hopefully the link to the news release regarding the best known half disme to appear at the Long Beach show along with an historical description of the 1792 half disme.

    http://www.longbeachshow.com/attractions.htm Long Beach Show Half Disme
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Link should be working now. See post above.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking forward to any first hand reports if you get to see the half disme at the Long Beach show.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone have a viewing of the world's finest half disme on their agenda for the Long Beach show?
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But of course! image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great. Looking forward to any and all reportings.
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ditto
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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    the date of this first hand information is 1916 and is correct as of its 1916 date as per the below


    thruogh the kindness of mr frank h. stewart we have received a print of the beautiful painting to lour first coinage

    special credit is due to mr stewart of the stewart electric company of philadelphia owners of the site of the first us mint for his interest in the history of our first mint

    thruogh the efforts of mr stewart he has had produced another beautiful painting entitled inspection of the first coins of the first united states mint it is the work of the artist mr john ward dumsmore of ny and is owned by mr frank h stewart

    washington referred to these half dimes in his 1792 address to congress as follows

    "there has been a small beginning in coinage of half dimes the want of small coins in circulation calling the first attention to them"
    =======================================================================
    i am not going to type the really wordy description of the painting it will take me too long lol if someone wants me to type out this description on here just pm me and i will
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    but to end i will tell you this


    frank h stewart the president and founder of the stewart electric company has for several years spent much time in uncovering the lost history of early philadelphia. and the inspiration for this painting was furnished by him and executed by dunsmore who is also historically inclined


    the original painting will be placed
    on exhibition january 1 1916 in the offices of the frank h stewart electric company 37 and 39 north seventh street philadelphia in the new building located on the site of the first united states mint



    michael
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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any impressions of how the display was at Long Beach?
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    MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,054 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Any impressions of how the display was at Long Beach? >>

    I would love to see the coin under a stereo-scope just to illuminate it for a detailed inspection. The 'blow-up' poster which gives a decent indication of the colour was still a tad blurry. As to the coin itself; it could have benefited from better lighting. It was next to impossible to tell much about it.

    These types of coins should be featured with some kind a macro-mode AV presentation, not a high school style poster board exhibit......that's my 2 reals. image
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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I saw it yesterday and today, and I just grabbed the goosneck lamp and lit it up and had a good look.

    fantastic coin with a great history, obviously a very special piece, the high security box was just ok but the accompanying display was very nice.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reports. Anyone else?

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