We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
<< <i>What we have here is the competitors of smaller companies telling the public, and their preferred dealers, to stay away from using new companies trying to get started in business. >>
Fascinating assertion. Without foundation, but fascinating nonetheless.
BTW, ACG is not a new company. They were founded before those "competitors" that are allegedly telling the public to stay away from them.
I've edited the title of this thread. Some thought I was asking for my legal funds. I'm not, I am covered in regards to my share. There are several people on the list who simply can't afford their share of the retainer, and that is who the fund is going to help.
Again, I must thank the overwhelming majority of board members here, you have all been very generous.
I am not an expert collector so I can only reflect upon what I have seen as a collector of 5 years.
I have personally seen slabbed ACG coins at a show in Beaumont TX. On at least 3/4 of the ones I saw they were 2 to 3 points over what PCGS would grade a coin of similar wear. Some I saw were right on the money though. Just not a high percentage. I know PCGS is a little conservative but SOMEBODY has to grow balls and tell people their coins aren't as good as grandpa said they were. It seemed to me "IN MY OWN FREEDOM OF SPEECH OPINION" from the coins I have seen. I think ACG graded coins "in general" have less quality grade for grade than either PCGS or NGC graded coins. Quality speaks for itself in coin collecting. And when there are Quality grading services available, people will notice that and say good things about it and judge other grading services according to the most consistent and excellent grading service in the market. If ACG has their own grading system so be it. You don't see NTC or TruGrade whining!
Yeah, I will agree that what people have said may have made ACG coins less desirable by collectors but people have their own opinions and if I remember right we have this "Freedom of Speech" deal.
I don't know but I know that if a grading service isn't consistent, I just don't want them to grade my coins. Nuff said. But also, I don't take time out of my day to badmouth it.
I know someone from ACG is reading this. I am a poor guy from Louisiana. I never slandered ACG only stated what I experience I have seen with ACG graded coins. The most you'll get out of me is a beat-up car and a box of jello anyways.
I hope this works out well. ACG could be a little more consistent in their grading and get a little more conservative to compete with NGC or PCGS. Also, people need to state objective facts when asked about a grading service and not slander them. And I have learned from experience that if you CAN'T BACK NEGATIVE STATEMENTS WITH PROOF, SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET YOU.
I'll be making a donation by way of Paypal a little later tonight! I hope to see us all band together on this and support those who are fighting this battle!
If you are in the Western North Carolina area, please consider visiting our coin shop:
Russ, you are right, like everyone here I cannot see the whole picture of how the politics of all this works, but I do know two things for certain, one is that in the thread of today titled "To Crack or Not To Crack? NCG to PCGS" you posted a picture of lots of empty cracked slabs of coins you were not unhappy with the grades, why should all this time and money have gone to waste? The other thing I know is that in my NGC submissions I have been returned the slabs of many companies picked on here, for no apparent reason other than they just did not want to grade them. These were submitted without requesting a particular grade.
<< <i>To Crack or Not To Crack? NCG to PCGS" you posted a picture of lots of empty cracked slabs of coins you were not unhappy with the grades, why should all this time and money have gone to waste? >>
Thanks for sharing the information and posting the complaint. Truth is always a defense in a lawsuit such as this but it is evident from some of the allegations in the complaint that some of the personal derogatory comments about the Hagars should have gone unsaid and I could see them getting a moral victory on some of those points. As far as to the meat of the complaint itself about the conspiracy theory I think the Hagars are going to have a hard time proving their attackers personally materially benefited from the public airing of views about ACG or that there was any concerted action of a conspiratorial nature.
It will be of interest to see how far this goes and what implications it might have on all grading services and our hobby as a whole.
<< <i>Truth is always a defense in a lawsuit such as this but it is evident from some of the allegations in the complaint that some of the personal dergogatroy comments about the Hagars should have gone unsaid and I could see them getting a moral victory on some of those points. >>
Again, I must point out that just because someone alleges in a complaint that bad words were said about them doesn't make it true. Anyone can allege anything, proving it is an entirely different matter.
Everyone knows where I stand at this point. ACG has not lost business due to being badmouthed. They lost business because of their own practices. They overgrade coins (compared to the top 4) in my opinion, or rather, grade to "their" own standards, but with labels with MS designations that can easily be attributed to the standards the top four 3rd parties. To me, that is deceptive. When I see MS65, I am thinking of PCGS, NGC, ICG, and Anacs.........who are comparable (in sticking to ANA standards). These other companies labeling in those grade levels, should stick to those type of standards, morally, if not made to do so legally. While grading is subjective to the grader, come on...............there should not be 2 grade differences ever. Not with the type of money in question of those two grades. Regardless of the outcome, in my opinion, ACG will never be regarded as a legitamite grader because of their own standards and the reputation that has created, AND NOT BECAUSE OF PEOPLE BADMOUTHING THEM.
certifiedsilverdollar.com A site dedicated to the sale of rare and high MS grade Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. All coins are graded by ICG, PCGS, NGC, or Anacs, and are priced well below PCGS values.
Getting sued is always a drag, regardless of it's merit. Sorry this has happened to you. We go to trial Monday - the defendants who we have sued have probably spent at least one hundred thousand dollars defending themselves. I have spent at least 50K in attacking them.
Adrian is right. Being sued is never fun and always expensive. Believe me, it can be dragged out for a long, expensive time even when the accusations are groundless. Been there, paid for that lesson.
I think it is what you are doing to help others on this. And, I think some people are spouting our the wrong end on their public derision. I guess that people sometimes feel they have to say something about most everything...or at least, when certain people post, they feel it is their need to publicly attack (anyone got a shark icon up yet? ).
From my point of view, I believe that certain parties in this situation have been given more than enough time and examples for them to do a self-evaluation on their business. If I were to run a business and countless people sent me information stating something was wrong with my business I would do a self-evaluation and figure out if there really is a problem. In this case, I do see a problem, so I do not disagree with the argument of certain parties. Not saying I agree with the way certain things have been said/done in this situation but can understand certain frustrations.
I believe that this situation puts a certain group of people in a situation where they are being taken advantage of due to their ignorance. I know ignorance is not upheld in the court of law, however in the "Newbie" group and the "Mom buying her son a coin" group. I think that certain parties practices are putting these groups in situations where they can be taken advantage of. With certain parties given information about their practices that might take advantage of these certain groups and for said parties to not take action to correct these situations. I am forced to contribute to this fund.
I hope that didn't confuse anyone more than it confused me while I was writing it I tried to stay neutral with stating my position. Fingers were not pointed but opinion was crossed.
Thanks everyone! Right now we are at about 50%. I also will be running some auctions to raise some more funds, a lot of our friends on other forums have donated coins to put up. I'll probably get to those next week as they start to come in.
One thing I need to mention, that is that somehow I had preferences set to add a shipping charge, for some reason this also was in effect for donations. I think I have resolved this problem. If not, be sure to select "services" under payment. No address is required, so use that option when sending payment. If any amount shows up under "shipping" zero it out.
Though there are a few die hard ACG supporters here, the response to this request has been overwhelming. I can not thank you all enough. You will see the results shortly when I post our response to the suit.
<< <i>Though there are a few die hard ACG supporters here, the response to this request has been overwhelming. >>
K6AZ, You have called me an ACG apologist in the past so I guess you would also consider me to be a "die hard ACG supporter" as well. Well I don't know how I could be either of those things considering I am strongly against ALL grading services. But anyway, I've sent a donation to the defense fund because I don't support the actions that ACG has taken in filing this suit.
Where is the FCC when you need them? Didn't the FCC already take action against Alan Hager in the 1980's on this very same issue? If so, why is it back again if the FCC already settled the issue?
Seems that out of those 46 defendants that it fairly represents about the ENTIRE coin hobby, professional and collector alike.
I don't think I've ever seen the term "fishwife" in a legal serving notice before.
You shout in your sleep. Perhaps the price is just too steep. Is your conscience at rest if once put to the test? You awake with a start to just the beating of your heart. Just one man beneath the sky, Just two ears, just two eyes.
A question, though, regarding this statement made on this thread:
<< <i>In addition to their decision regarding ACG, they recently expelled Ken Pines (Coast to Coast) >>
Unless CTC paid for their ads in advance, which is most likely the case, why does Coin World still allow their advertisements? I thought if an advertiser had enough complaints, they wouldn't allow them any further ads? Being expelled from the ANA would seem at least as serious, if not more, for Coin World to drop them?
This was in the December 03 issue of the Numismatist, page 953.
"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees."
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees." >>
That was sure long overdue. Sounds like the ACG hearing that the Hagars asked for is bearing fruit in that the ANA is finally becoming serious about enforcing its ethics requirements.
As for Coin World, they're not the ANA, so they don't need to pull CTC's ads. CTC would be obliged to drop the ANA logo from their ads, but there's still some lead time in putting an issue to bed. That's also likely why there was no commentary in the latest edition.
After looking at Coin World's Policy and Standard for advertisers, I sent the following email to the Advertising Department:
************************************************************************************ It is my understanding that Ken Pines, owner of Coast to Coast coins, has been expelled from the ANA for the following reasons as stated in the December 3rd issue of the Numismatist:
"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees."
As a current subscriber to Coin World, it disturbs me to see his 2 page ads are still running in the newspaper.
Every one of the charges brought against him by the ANA seem to violate your own advertising Policy and Standards described on your web site, and are cause for rejection of further advertising.
This adversely affects your credibility, honesty, and integrity in the eyes of coin collectors. It will certainly affect whether I renew my subscription. I sincerely hope that you discontinue his advertisements, as I enjoy your publication and look forward to each issue.
Coast to Coast Coins is one of America's largest and most respected rare coin companies. We maintain one of the largest rare coin and obsolete paper money inventories in the world. We offer a diverse selection of U.S., world, and ancient coins, as well as U.S. and Confederate paper money - all at very competitive prices. We've been major advertisers in Coin World, Numismatic News, Coins Magazine, and Coinage since 1984 and first started in the coin business in 1972.
Condor: I did not think of you as far as a "diehard" supporter of ACG. There are only a couple, you are not one of them as far as I am concerned. Thanks for the help!
I would like to thank everyone who helped out today, this is really going well, and will go a long way to cover those named that need the help.
<< <i>my next thought would be that anyone who posts on this thread could be named as an additional party to the suit????? >>
We covered this earlier. Donators to legal funds can not be held responsible. Of course, they could add Santa Claus if they wished. Their suit is already ridiculous enough, adding more people who haven't even had a bad word to say about them simply because they show their support of the defendants would not be a wise move.
I've admired your Morgan registry set as a fellow Morgan registry set owner for a while before I joined the boards. I've even noticed that other owners have purchased from you. It's good to match names with actual people. I would have to say that I support you and your effort. IMO, the only reason ACG exists is because there is a market for it. Some dealers, IMO, try to pawn off overgraded coins to unsuspecting collectors as "certified". Okay, I hope these comments don't get me in trouble. I wish you the best in the lawsuit.
Thanks Dan. I have been collecting Morgans since 1977. Over the last several years I have worked on upgrading a lot of the circulated coins in my set. I've just added a 96-S in MS63 to my set, and it will be the last one for quite a while. I made arrangements for this coin before all this came down. Fortunately, I have been doing well financially lately, but not well enough to buy any more until I see how much this is going to cost me. I am also chipping in some of my own money into this fund in addition to my own personal defense. So you will have some time to catch up to my set.
<< <i>Thanks Dave. A little later I will be sending emails to everyone who pitched in explaining exactly what is happening. >>
Careful with putting anything in writing to anyone. Attorney-client privilege can't be waived in that case. Make sure you run any communications past your attorney before you send them as well as any posts to this forum or any others. Just be very careful.
I wish you luck in defending this matter.
I just have a feeling that it will simply wimper away eventually and only after tens of thousands have been spent on the litigation process and attorneys. I just don't think ACG or Hager has much in the way of a claim for conspiracy or tortious interference with business relations. Damages are going to be very difficult to prove. He's going to need someone to come to court to testify as follows --
Attorney -- "Mr. X did you use the services of ACG in 2002?" Mr. X ------- "Yes I did." Attorney -- "How much business did you do with ACG?" Mr. X ------- "Two million dollars." Attorney--- "Did you use ACG services in 2003?" Mr. X ------- "No, not at all." Attorney -- "Why not, if you did $2 million in 2002 Mr. X ------- "Because all the defendants told me not to and threatened me if I did."
Good luck to the Hagers trying to find someone to testify in that manner. Though I do think that the slander/libel might have some merit as well as a intentional infliction of emotional distress claim.
Good luck to everyone, but I bet after the Motion for Summary Judgment is decided, many of the name defendants will be released and many of the claims from ACG and the Hagers will be thrown out.
<< <i>Careful with putting anything in writing to anyone. Attorney-client privilege can't be waived in that case. Make sure you run any communications past your attorney before you send them as well as any posts to this forum or any others. Just be very careful. >>
Sometimes I am not clear in what I say, I really have to watch that. The emails I will be sending to the donors will simply be a thank you note, along with how the fund is going. On the advice of my attorney, I can not discuss any specifics in relation to the lawsuits allegations.
Comments
First POTD 9/19/05!!
<< <i>What we have here is the competitors of smaller companies telling the public, and their preferred dealers, to stay away from using new companies trying to get started in business. >>
Fascinating assertion. Without foundation, but fascinating nonetheless.
BTW, ACG is not a new company. They were founded before those "competitors" that are allegedly telling the public to stay away from them.
Russ, NCNE
Again, I must thank the overwhelming majority of board members here, you have all been very generous.
I have personally seen slabbed ACG coins at a show in Beaumont TX. On at least 3/4 of the ones I saw they were 2 to 3 points over what PCGS would grade a coin of similar wear. Some I saw were right on the money though. Just not a high percentage. I know PCGS is a little conservative but SOMEBODY has to grow balls and tell people their coins aren't as good as grandpa said they were. It seemed to me "IN MY OWN FREEDOM OF SPEECH OPINION" from the coins I have seen. I think ACG graded coins "in general" have less quality grade for grade than either PCGS or NGC graded coins. Quality speaks for itself in coin collecting. And when there are Quality grading services available, people will notice that and say good things about it and judge other grading services according to the most consistent and excellent grading service in the market. If ACG has their own grading system so be it. You don't see NTC or TruGrade whining!
Yeah, I will agree that what people have said may have made ACG coins less desirable by collectors but people have their own opinions and if I remember right we have this "Freedom of Speech" deal.
The Proof is in the slab:
ACG typical MS65
PCGS typical MS65
I don't know but I know that if a grading service isn't consistent, I just don't want them to grade my coins. Nuff said. But also, I don't take time out of my day to badmouth it.
I know someone from ACG is reading this. I am a poor guy from Louisiana. I never slandered ACG only stated what I experience I have seen with ACG graded coins. The most you'll get out of me is a beat-up car and a box of jello anyways.
I hope this works out well. ACG could be a little more consistent in their grading and get a little more conservative to compete with NGC or PCGS. Also, people need to state objective facts when asked about a grading service and not slander them. And I have learned from experience that if you CAN'T BACK NEGATIVE STATEMENTS WITH PROOF, SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET YOU.
I assume that this is principle that you are standing on and are fighting for here? They are only filing for 15K correct?
Isnt counsel going to be considerably more than that?
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>They are only filing for 15K correct? >>
John,
That's just the statutory minimum in the jurisdiction. The complaint reads "in excess" of $15K. They will seek millions.
Russ, NCNE
You can see how naive I am in terms of the law...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
<< <i>To Crack or Not To Crack? NCG to PCGS" you posted a picture of lots of empty cracked slabs of coins you were not unhappy with the grades, why should all this time and money have gone to waste? >>
I just like cracking out slabs.
Russ, NCNE
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
<< <i>I guess you are just feed up and going back to Raw collecting. I might point out to you that you are paying a premium for these slabs !! >>
Nah, I collect graded coins. Like I said, I just like cracking slabs. It's worth the premium for the fun of smashing them.
Russ, NCNE
Dave
It will be of interest to see how far this goes and what implications it might have on all grading services and our hobby as a whole.
<< <i>Truth is always a defense in a lawsuit such as this but it is evident from some of the allegations in the complaint that some of the personal dergogatroy comments about the Hagars should have gone unsaid and I could see them getting a moral victory on some of those points. >>
Again, I must point out that just because someone alleges in a complaint that bad words were said about them doesn't make it true. Anyone can allege anything, proving it is an entirely different matter.
A site dedicated to the sale of rare and high MS grade Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. All coins are graded by ICG, PCGS, NGC, or Anacs, and are priced well below PCGS values.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
I think it is
And, I think some people are spouting our the wrong end on their public derision.
I guess that people sometimes feel they have to say something about most everything...or at least, when certain people post, they feel it is their need to publicly attack (anyone got a shark icon up yet?
Best of luck to you and the others!
Ron
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
How much farther do you have to go? I know my donation must have pushed you over the top.
Edited to add: I am also in the postage stamp category...
I believe that this situation puts a certain group of people in a situation where they are being taken advantage of due to their ignorance. I know ignorance is not upheld in the court of law, however in the "Newbie" group and the "Mom buying her son a coin" group. I think that certain parties practices are putting these groups in situations where they can be taken advantage of. With certain parties given information about their practices that might take advantage of these certain groups and for said parties to not take action to correct these situations. I am forced to contribute to this fund.
I hope that didn't confuse anyone more than it confused me while I was writing it
One thing I need to mention, that is that somehow I had preferences set to add a shipping charge, for some reason this also was in effect for donations. I think I have resolved this problem. If not, be sure to select "services" under payment. No address is required, so use that option when sending payment. If any amount shows up under "shipping" zero it out.
Though there are a few die hard ACG supporters here, the response to this request has been overwhelming. I can not thank you all enough. You will see the results shortly when I post our response to the suit.
<< <i>Though there are a few die hard ACG supporters here, the response to this request has been overwhelming. >>
K6AZ, You have called me an ACG apologist in the past so I guess you would also consider me to be a "die hard ACG supporter" as well. Well I don't know how I could be either of those things considering I am strongly against ALL grading services. But anyway, I've sent a donation to the defense fund because I don't support the actions that ACG has taken in filing this suit.
Seems that out of those 46 defendants that it fairly represents about the ENTIRE coin hobby, professional and collector alike.
roadrunner
roadrunner
Perhaps the price is just too steep.
Is your conscience at rest if once put to the test?
You awake with a start to just the beating of your heart.
Just one man beneath the sky,
Just two ears, just two eyes.
A question, though, regarding this statement made on this thread:
<< <i>In addition to their decision regarding ACG, they recently expelled Ken Pines (Coast to Coast) >>
Unless CTC paid for their ads in advance, which is most likely the case, why does Coin World still allow their advertisements? I thought if an advertiser had enough complaints, they wouldn't allow them any further ads? Being expelled from the ANA would seem at least as serious, if not more, for Coin World to drop them?
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
This was in the December 03 issue of the Numismatist, page 953.
"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees."
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees." >>
That was sure long overdue. Sounds like the ACG hearing that the Hagars asked for is bearing fruit in that the ANA is finally becoming serious about enforcing its ethics requirements.
As for Coin World, they're not the ANA, so they don't need to pull CTC's ads. CTC would be obliged to drop the ANA logo from their ads, but there's still some lead time in putting an issue to bed. That's also likely why there was no commentary in the latest edition.
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
************************************************************************************
It is my understanding that Ken Pines, owner of Coast to Coast coins, has been expelled from the ANA for the following reasons as stated in the December 3rd issue of the Numismatist:
"Kenneth Pines, Columbia MD expelled at the direction of the ANA Board of Governors for his failure to respond to multiple complaints: sale of cleaned, whizzed, tooled and other altered coins, questionable grading practices and excessive fees."
As a current subscriber to Coin World, it disturbs me to see his 2 page ads are still running in the newspaper.
Every one of the charges brought against him by the ANA seem to violate your own advertising Policy and Standards described on your web site, and are cause for rejection of further advertising.
This adversely affects your credibility, honesty, and integrity in the eyes of coin collectors. It will certainly affect whether I renew my subscription. I sincerely hope that you discontinue his advertisements, as I enjoy your publication and look forward to each issue.
***********************************************************************************
So, will Coin World act in an ethical manner and drop their large, weekly advertising account or allow him to continue?
I'll post any reply I get from them in a separate thread.
Bob
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
Coast to Coast Coins is one of America's largest and most respected rare coin companies. We maintain one of the largest rare coin and obsolete paper money inventories in the world. We offer a diverse selection of U.S., world, and ancient coins, as well as U.S. and Confederate paper money - all at very competitive prices. We've been major advertisers in Coin World, Numismatic News, Coins Magazine, and Coinage since 1984 and first started in the coin business in 1972.
I would like to thank everyone who helped out today, this is really going well, and will go a long way to cover those named that need the help.
<< <i>my next thought would be that anyone who posts on this thread could be named as an additional party to the suit????? >>
We covered this earlier. Donators to legal funds can not be held responsible. Of course, they could add Santa Claus if they wished. Their suit is already ridiculous enough, adding more people who haven't even had a bad word to say about them simply because they show their support of the defendants would not be a wise move.
Bob
In Memory Of BigIndie(BigMike) 1974-2004
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
k6az@k6az.com
If you do it this way, be sure to note it is for the defense fund. You do not need to include your address.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
<< <i>Thanks Dave. A little later I will be sending emails to everyone who pitched in explaining exactly what is happening. >>
Careful with putting anything in writing to anyone. Attorney-client privilege can't be waived in that case. Make sure you run any communications past your attorney before you send them as well as any posts to this forum or any others. Just be very careful.
I wish you luck in defending this matter.
I just have a feeling that it will simply wimper away eventually and only after tens of thousands have been spent on the litigation process and attorneys. I just don't think ACG or Hager has much in the way of a claim for conspiracy or tortious interference with business relations. Damages are going to be very difficult to prove. He's going to need someone to come to court to testify as follows --
Attorney -- "Mr. X did you use the services of ACG in 2002?"
Mr. X ------- "Yes I did."
Attorney -- "How much business did you do with ACG?"
Mr. X ------- "Two million dollars."
Attorney--- "Did you use ACG services in 2003?"
Mr. X ------- "No, not at all."
Attorney -- "Why not, if you did $2 million in 2002
Mr. X ------- "Because all the defendants told me not to and threatened me if I did."
Good luck to the Hagers trying to find someone to testify in that manner. Though I do think that the slander/libel might have some merit as well as a intentional infliction of emotional distress claim.
Good luck to everyone, but I bet after the Motion for Summary Judgment is decided, many of the name defendants will be released and many of the claims from ACG and the Hagers will be thrown out.
Michael
<< <i>Careful with putting anything in writing to anyone. Attorney-client privilege can't be waived in that case. Make sure you run any communications past your attorney before you send them as well as any posts to this forum or any others. Just be very careful. >>
Sometimes I am not clear in what I say, I really have to watch that. The emails I will be sending to the donors will simply be a thank you note, along with how the fund is going. On the advice of my attorney, I can not discuss any specifics in relation to the lawsuits allegations.