I've been served - Some of the named defendants could use some help

K6AZ

OK, I was served with the ACG lawsuit summons a couple of hours ago. Until I was served, my hands were really tied about posting anything about it on my website.

I still can't discuss the particulars of the suit, but what I can release is what is currently on my site. This suit is going to be costly if it goes on for any length of time. I have created a defense fund for some of the people who may have trouble paying their share of the costs.

ACG Files suit against 46 collectors and dealers

ER

Eric,
Count me in for donation. I'll do it today after coming home from work.


Done via PayPal.

K6AZ

Thanks ER, I really appreciate it.

TWQG

<< <i>Count me in for donation. I'll do it today after coming home from work. >>

-ditto

Placid

Are you going to counter sue them?

K6AZ

<< <i>Are you going to counter sue them? >>



I can't really discuss that, but I will point out what happened to me on eBay last year.

Thanks Sean!

Kriek

Eric, donation sent

K6AZ

Thanks Jon! I really appreciate all the support here.

LAWMAN

Call Barry Stuppler

BigE

I would like to contribute, but when you countersue there is a certain asset of theirs I would like to have because I need a new mop-head for my garage------------------BigE

K6AZ

<< <i>Call Barry Stuppler >>



I spoke with Barry earlier this afternoon.

BigE -

Bellportman

Paypal donation on the way!

Bury the Bastages!

CapAnson

Well if all anyone did was criticize them, they have no more leg to stand on than a movie producer who gets a poor review from Roger Ebert.. I wish you luck.

Bubblehead

Eric,
I wish you well. Don't let 'um grind you down!

coinguy1

Bubblehead, NO one can grind Eric down!

Peaceman

This is what the world has come to.....

K6AZ

All I can say is WOW! Thanks to all those helping out. There are some defendants who were really going to be in a bind financially if they had to pay their total share of the legal costs. From what I'm seeing so far, there is a lot of support for us.

I understand most of you prefer to be anonymous, and I can assure you that I will not release the names of those who have contributed.

keets

hey Eric

you grabbed onto ACG et. al. like a bulldog with a full knowledge of the consequences. by your own admission you are extremely stubborn to the point of irrationality. as i've said in replies various times, that's viewed by some---perhaps you---as a character asset when in truth, it is often a negative character flaw. you quest to win some battle and reign victorious over the evil Alan Hagar has evidentallyplayed itself out to a court battle for you and others.

while i agree in principal with your beliefs about ACG, i also feel that there is some merit in the lawsuit they've brought. as such, you really have noone to blame for your upcoming struggle than yourself. plain and simple for me is the truth that there are often consequences for our actions.

i think it's disgusting that you should come here and ask forum members for donations to help dig you out of your hole. i hope this thread gets pulled as it desrves to be.

al h.

K6AZ

Thank you keets for showing where you stand here. Obviously I can't comment on the particulars, so at this point I have to pass on that.

I will tell you that this fund isn't going to help me, I already have my share of the retainer. There are a lot of people who are listed as denfendants that shouldn't be, and they don't have the resources to cover their share.

I hope everyone notes your post before you get wise and edit it.

stman

Keets says....

<< <i>hey Eric

you grabbed onto ACG et. al. like a bulldog with a full knowledge of the consequences. by your own admission you are extremely stubborn to the point of irrationality. as i've said in replies various times, that's viewed by some---perhaps you---as a character asset when in truth, it is often a negative character flaw. you quest to win some battle and reign victorious over the evil Alan Hagar has evidentallyplayed itself out to a court battle for you and others.

while i agree in principal with your beliefs about ACG, i also feel that there is some merit in the lawsuit they've brought. as such, you really have noone to blame for your upcoming struggle than yourself. plain and simple for me is the truth that there are often consequences for our actions.

i think it's disgusting that you should come here and ask forum members for donations to help dig you out of your hole. i hope this thread gets pulled as it desrves to be.


And they call me grumpy.

dpoole

Count me in.

islemangu

Paypal donation sent...good work in trying to educate new collectors before they are ripped off out of their hard earned money buying overgraded crap coins. Wonder how many collectors would still be active in the hobby if they weren't tricked/swindled in the beginning with cheat grading companies like plantiff. Appreciate your sacrafice for just trying to spread the truth...hope more people donate so can go on offensive and shut em down

BigE

Keets, maybe you should ask for the witches shoes so you can find your way home------------BigE

poorguy

Contribution Sent.

I'll give what I can.

I'm just a poor guy.

keets

hey Eric

perhaps i overreacted, but rest assured i won't edit my post. personal responsibility may be tough but i'll hold the line on that comment and take my punches as you are with regard to the suit. whoever the co-defendants are, they should have been aware of the consequences of there actions and i just feel it's wrong to ask someone else to pay my dues.

evidentally you are prepared to do that, at least in part. your post title is rather clear, I've been served - could use some help. there is something that i find repugnant about asking others for help in defending my actions.

best of luck.

al h.

mrearlygold

Eric,

Do you have a Florida lawyer? If not I can recommend someone who is real good.

He's in Boca Raton though which is I think about a 4 hour drive from where that lowlife ( in my opinion) is.

Take care
TP

K6AZ

<< <i>hey Eric

perhaps i overreacted, but rest assured i won't edit my post. personal responsibility may be tough but i'll hold the line on that comment and take my punches as you are with regard to the suit. whoever the co-defendants are, they should have been aware of the consequences of there actions and i just feel it's wrong to ask someone else to pay my dues.

evidentally you are prepared to do that, at least in part. your post title is rather clear, I've been served - could use some help. there is something that i find repugnant about asking others for help in defending my actions.

best of luck. >>



See, this is where you are having a problem. You are assuming all the statements made were in fact actually made.

I'll say it again, I have myself covered. There are people listed for no other reason than they post to a certain forum. It would be like if you were named for posting here, even though you have never had anything bad to say about ACG.

K6AZ

<< <i>Eric,

Do you have a Florida lawyer? If not I can recommend someone who is real good.

He's in Boca Raton though which is I think about a 4 hour drive from where that lowlife ( in my opinion) is.

Take care
TP >>



Counsel has been retained in Florida.

K6AZ

I would like to again thank everyone who has made contributions. One of the co-defendants is very relieved to know they will have help.

nOoBiEeE

Paypal Donation just sent, good luck with everything..

Numismanic

K6AZ,

Good luck and may the truth prevail!

Don

joeyuk

I'll support you in any way I can. I find you very helpful and a positive influence to these boards and coin collecting. Thou I have never had any personal dealings with you . Joe

pontiacinf

Eric

I will get a paypal to you early next week once I count my bday dough.

I hope all works out for you guys.

BigE youll have to pry that mop from my cold dead hands

MrEureka

I can assure you that I will not release the names of those who have contributed.

Eric - So if the court subpoenas this info, you won't provide it? What if PayPal is subpoenaed? Couldn't the contributors be deemed to be part of the alleged conspiracy? Doesn't anybody ever learn anything around here?

TWQG

<< <i>Couldn't the contributors be deemed to be part of the alleged conspiracy? >>

-for contributing to a legal defense fund?




Absurd!

coinguy1

<< <i> Couldn't the contributors be deemed to be part of the alleged conspiracy? >>

Andy, while it has been said (and, in some cases illustrated) that anyone can sue anyone for almost anything: 1) that doesn't mean they will win and 2) I think, on a realistic/practical basis, the answer to your question is NO.

More than that is likely required, in order to constitute a conspiracy. That said, I don't dispute the notion that caution is advised regarding potentially defamatory comments and/or actions.

K6AZ

Andy, you really should consult with an attorney sometime.

K6AZ

I think I understand why Andy made that comment.

I spoke with my local attorney this afternoon. A defendant can set up a legal defense fund, and the contributers can not be divulged. A subpoena can not be issued to find out who is financing a party's legal counsel.

TWQG

<< <i>A subpoena can not be issued to find out who is financing a party's legal counsel. >>

-didn't we learn anything from Slick Willy's legal problems?

MrEureka

didn't we learn anything from Slick Willy's legal problems?

Let's not go there.

But I'm glad to hear that my fears were unfounded.

ibzman350

Eric paypal send...

I'm considering my donation as a small investment...when you all win the counter suit, it'll be pay back time.


I'm only kidding , folks


Herb

GOLDSAINT

K6az, You know Keets has some good points, and if some of the other defendants are looking for pay-pal money they are going to need a great deal of it. Lawsuits like this generally go on for about 2 years and the legal bills just keep going every day. A defense in this type of suit could reach $50,000 to $75,000 easy, and probably much more by the time all the depositions are taken from so many people. As I said in my post on NGC last week, the ANA needs to set some rules regarding what is good or bad certified grading, and after so many violations any grading company needs to be suspended from their membership.
I ask this question last week, “Who is watching the certifiers”? Right now that answer is no one. As Keets pointed out there is no one to complain to, and therefore it does not seem like a good idea to point fingers, on other than specific coins you might own. It seems reasonable to me that NGC and even PCGS might do what ever they could to return competitors products as “ bad coins”. This only leaves more business for them and adds to the bad reputation of all other companies. It also seems there is some prejudice when NGC allows you to list their slabs, and those of PCGS in their registries, but not any of the other certifiers coins can be listed. This appears to be a blanket statement that all other certifiers are not good at their jobs.

IrishMike

GoldSaint the reason NGC only allows their slabs and PCGS in their registry is because they can only verify those two companies cert #'s. The other TPG numbers cannot be verified.

onlyroosies

Eric, Paypal donation sent... Hay, Can I write this off....

Russ

<< <i>the ANA needs to set some rules regarding what is good or bad certified grading, and after so many violations any grading company needs to be suspended from their membership. >>



I didn't think companies were allowed to join the ANA, only individuals. I don't think suspension would do any good, anyway. It's not like the third tier slabbers actually care about that sort of thing.

Russ, NCNE

RegistryCoin

K6AZ

Once again, I want to thank everyone who has helped out in this.

There are three people on that list that are not doing well in terms of money, and their share of the retainer is just impossible for them. I'm happy to say with the great help of everyone here, we are nearly at half the amount required for these three people. I am truly amazed at the genorosity of some of you, this has really made my day.

lava

<< <i>I think I understand why Andy made that comment.

I spoke with my local attorney this afternoon. A defendant can set up a legal defense fund, and the contributers can not be divulged. A subpoena can not be issued to find out who is financing a party's legal counsel. >>



As tempted as I am to comment on this and a number of other legal issues that may arise in the case, I will not do so here, because you can bet the plaintiffs are reading every word over here, and it is not my style to educate the adversary outside the courtroom. But when that day comes, watch out.

Kriek

Eric, is it viable to privately divulge the remaining amount needed?

GOLDSAINT

Thanks Mike, so what you are telling me is that if you have an ANACS slabbed coin you cannot verify that it is real? That does not sound right to me. At any rate my point is that SOMEONE needs to be watching all these companies on behalf of the collectors and investors. Someone needs to certify, and audit, these companies so that millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours are not wasted in sales, time, etc. These companies promote themselves EXPERTS and can make or break entire collections, and there values. Without anyone like the ANA making a call on who is doing their job correctly these people can do what they like as far as grading goes. We the public have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Does Heritage get better grades from PCGS because they do hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business there each year? All of us have looked at prestigious collections touted be certain certifiers and wondered how in the world did they ever get those grades. A few weeks back one of our members made the comment after getting a disappointing grade on his excellent Franklin half “ Who I am to get the prize?” This is terrible, why should any of us worry about getting the prize if we had the type of coin he submitted?
What we have here is the competitors of smaller companies telling the public, and their preferred dealers, to stay away from using new companies trying to get started in business. Perhaps they do not do this in words, they just return the small companies coins with bad remarks about their grading. All of this grading should be uniform within one grade, and determined to be so by an independent like the ANA.

DHeath

I was a vocal critic of the ANA when they sat on their hands and refused to help police the industry, and now that they have, I'll do what I can to assist the folks caught in the crossfire. In addition to their decision regarding ACG, they recently expelled Ken Pines (Coast to Coast), and appear to be headed in what I consider a positive direction.

Don Heath
ANA 205892