Would anybody like a $20 coin for $560?

Russ · March 31, 2004 10:34AM

Yep, there are a lot of rips on eBay.

I don't know what is more pathetic; the scams this guy runs, or the fact that so many bidders fall for it.

Russ, NCNE

Goldfinger · March 31, 2004 10:36AM

What are you talking about? That's a great bargain for a $150,000 coin.

-Jay

Kriek · March 31, 2004 10:38AM

I was allmost one of them.

Prometheus183 · March 31, 2004 10:39AM

The only thing he ever has is PCI slabs. I avoid his auctions like a plague.

Craig

Trooper · March 31, 2004 10:39AM

Wow....
That's a big tag for that coin..
Tom

MadMarty · March 31, 2004 10:44AM

RCDB · March 31, 2004 10:45AM

I'm out of sympathy for people like this. Someone link in the RAW Trade Dollar he recently bought for $1300. !!!!! It looks nice in the picture, but would you buy a RAW Trade Dollar these days from Ebay and cough up 13 big ones? His ID shouldn't be slo238, it should be stupid238.

ddink · March 31, 2004 10:48AM

When bidding closes at $550 for a "$150,000" coin, people don't get a clue? I mean $130,000 for a $150,000 coin might be a bargain, but doesn't everyone in their right mind realize $550 for a supposedly $150,000 coin isn't a bargain, but a scam?

Wolf359 · March 31, 2004 10:49AM

No sure how much to blame the seller. He did start the auction bidding at $2.00....no obvious shilling happened.

Wolf359 · March 31, 2004 10:51AM

Ok, it closed at around a PR68 DCAM price. If it's indeed DCAM the winning bidder may be ok.

Russ · March 31, 2004 10:52AM

<< No sure how much to blame the seller. >>

You don't think fabricating a bogus value of $150,000 is a problem? I don't care what he started the auction at, he flat lied about the value of the coin. OTOH, I'm also having a hard time feeling a lot of sympathy for the bidders. It's pretty clear that greed was a big factor there also.

<< Ok, it closed at around a PR68 DCAM price. If it's indeed DCAM the winning bidder may be ok. >>

The coin is not even a cameo.

Russ, NCNE

Numismanic · March 31, 2004 10:56AM

But it says PR70DCam on the holder.

Don

keets · March 31, 2004 10:58AM

...............ahhhhhhhhhh, finally a good thing about dial-up!! the Coin Mover's page takes so long to load i don't ever let it fully open for my viewing pleasure. that seller seems to really be in vogue the last few months, at least that's when i first noticed them. i assume they will lay out enough rope for the hangman and burn all their bridges before summer arrives. that is, of course, unless the stockpen gets swung open for the next flock of sheep..........or are they goats??

sometimes i have to wander if the suckers deserve what they wishfully get, but then i need to head off to my confessor and clear my soul. bottom line is that it aggravates me to see these sellers profit.

al h.

RGL · March 31, 2004 10:59AM

The winning bidder is obviously slo ...

tgilliams · March 31, 2004 11:02AM

Come on Russ, Its at least a PR66CAM, a $23 coin. I'm surprised you were so far off.

Prometheus183 · March 31, 2004 11:02AM

Point, set, and match, Russ!

People are complete idiots if they can't see this for what it is. Come on, if you have something that you really think is 150K, why not cross it over and get at least 70% of the real trend? Matters not though, the guy's going to keep on doing what he does.

Excuse me while I go take a shower,... I think I picked up some slime somewhere.

Craig

ms70 · March 31, 2004 11:05AM

The guy might be out of line with claims to the value but he started off at $1 and there's a 7 day return privilege. The bidders are the
ones who determined the value in the end. It's the buyer's choice to be ignorant. If they have the capability to cruise eBay & purchase
stuff, then they sure have the ability to search the internet for more information prior to bidding.

Let the buyer beware.

RCDB · March 31, 2004 11:06AM

This buyer has spent 9 GRAND on Ebay in the last 30 days. Check it out. I like the $252 1926 S Merc Dime in AU? Can you imagine the treasures that any of us could have gotten with that 9 GRAND instead of a box full of mystery junk. This buyer does not, nor could they ever have worked too hard for their money.

Conder101 · March 31, 2004 11:29AM

<< You don't think fabricating a bogus value of $150,000 is a problem? I don't care what he started the auction at, he flat lied about the value of the coin. >>

Did he? He says he uses the Collectors Universe price guide for his pricing, but it doesn't show a value for a Proof 70 DC. What do you think the value of a 70 would be? What ever you think it is would be your opinion, not a "flat out lie". Yes the guide is only for PCGS graded coins and his implication that the prices from it would be valid on coins graded b other service is shady and somewhat unethical. And I will agree that his use of it is misleading but I won't say that he has "lied" about the value. So his use of the $2.00 opening makes the auction acceptable to me.

Russ · March 31, 2004 11:34AM

<< What do you think the value of a 70 would be? >>

It would be nowhere near his fabricated value of $150,000. Even at 10x the value of a PR69DCAM; even at 20X the value of a PR69DCAM; even at 30X the value of a PR69DCAM; even at 40X the value of a PR69DCAM; even at 50X the value of a PR69DCAM - even at 100X the value of a PR69DCAM, we still don't get to his bogus value.

The market value of a true PR69DCAM is about $1200.

And, this coin isn't even a cameo.

<< In the event that a coin in our auctions does not show a value in the price guide, CoinMovers does their best to assign a value that indicates the potential asset value of the coin measured within the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics. >>

He didn't even use his own gibberish policy. The "the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics" would put the value at $19,200 for a real PR70DCAM. None have ever been graded at PCGS, BTW.

Russ, NCNE

Tonelover · March 31, 2004 11:38AM

<< When bidding closes at $550 for a "$150,000" coin, people don't get a clue? I mean $130,000 for a $150,000 coin might be a bargain, but doesn't everyone in their right mind realize $550 for a supposedly $150,000 coin isn't a bargain, but a scam? >>

These people are very frustrating to me coming from a dealer's vantage point. They have money to spend and will get in line to buy junk at hyper-inflated prices, but try to sell them a real coin, meaning strictly graded and problem free at full retail and they won't even answer your email. Drives me crazy to no end.

DHeath · March 31, 2004 11:45AM

To lie is to make statements that are untrue, whether or not the falsity of such statements is known by the speaker. A lie can be a genuine falsehood or a selective truth, a lie by omission, or even the truth if the intention is to deceive or to cause an action not in the listener's interests.

CoinMovers does their best to assign a value that indicates the potential asset value of the coin measured within the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics. The price guide is only one of many indicators of the value of a coin.

Calling the asset value of that coin $150,000 is a lie, whether or not the falsity of the statement is known to the seller.

keets · March 31, 2004 12:13PM

In the event that a coin in our auctions does not show a value in the price guide, CoinMovers does their best to assign a value that indicates the potential asset value of the coin measured within the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics. The price guide is only one of many indicators of the value of a coin.

the above is pasted from the sellers auction page under the heading of Pricing. we shall examine the potential asset value of the coin measured within the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics. to do this we will assume for arguement that the coin is indeed a PR70DCAM. hey, hey. get ahold of yourself, this is serious!!

below are the values in grades PR65DCAM through PR69DCAM taken from the current PCGS online price guide and population in PCGS grade taken from the online pop report. we will assume for arguement that they refelect accurate sales prices and existing populations. hey, don't make me tell you guys to settle down again. this is serious and you're about to get on my last nerve.

22 coins graded PR65DCAM---$90
54 coins graded PR66DCAM---$170 approx. PR65DCAM X 2.
123 coins graded PR67DCAM---$350 approx. PR66DCAM X 2.
175 coins graded PR68DCAM---$550 approx. PR67DCAM X 1-1/2.
58 coins graded PR69DCAM---$3250 approx. PR68DCAM X 6.
0 coins graded PR70DCAM and no listed value, but we already knew that.

following this rise in price through the grades and assuming some day a PR69DCAM will be holdered by PCGS, lets assume that the proximal relationship of existing price guide dynamics

remain somewhat consistent. as a matter of fact, let's get wild and crazy and double them so that instead of having a PR70DCAM price 6 times that of the previous grade, it will be 12 times the $3250 price. that comes out to $39K.

at 24 times we're at $78K.

at 48 times we're at $156K which shouldn't be confused with anything regarding a PC!!

i think the coinmover has sadly over-estimated a proximal relationship. did i also mention that the coin isn't a DCAM?? details, details, details................

please do not strain my patience by defending that kind of price estimating. it is plain wrong.

al h.

Wolf359 · March 31, 2004 12:19PM

Russ, I missed the $150,000 plug. You're correct the seller is a pig. And you're the cameo expert here.

Russ · April 1, 2004 2:27AM

Keets,

Russ, NCNE

lathmach · April 1, 2004 3:02AM

But it's certified so it MUST be a Proof 70 Deep Cameo.
You think the Certifying Authority is wrong? How can that be possible? They must have very highly skilled people doing the inspecting and grading of the coins.
Maybe you just don't know your Kennedy Half Dollars, Russ. Shame on you.

Ray

jeffnpcb · April 1, 2004 3:09AM

32 bids can't possibly be wrong!

bearcave · April 1, 2004 3:28AM

I've had it! I am going to send all my coins to PCI for grading!

BillJones · April 1, 2004 3:43AM

Gee, I can't even see a CAMEO on the obverse, let alone a DEEP CAMEO. Are you sure this thing is worth $20, Russ?

As for the $150,000 price, If this guy's name was Pinnocheo (sp) we would not need a space probe to Mars; we could use his nose!

BillJones · April 1, 2004 3:49AM

<< This buyer has spent 9 GRAND on Ebay in the last 30 days. Check it out. I like the $252 1926 S Merc Dime in AU? Can you imagine the treasures that any of us could have gotten with that 9 GRAND instead of a box full of mystery junk. This buyer does not, nor could they ever have worked too hard for their money.

>>

It's really amazing how STUPID some people can be when it comes to auctions. They think they are getting a bargain because someone else only bid a little less than they did. AND they believe the tripe that the seller writes. People sell $150,000 coins all day long for $560! How STUPID can you be?

I can put up a PQ NGC or PCGS coin up on Ebay and not get squat for it. This guy pays primo money for overgraded garbage in a PCI slab. What am I doing wrong?

Would anybody like a $20 coin for $560?

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