As with anything, you choose who to spend your money on and why...If I was a loyal customer of dell and they began treating me less than what I was accustomed to then I would switch to anoth computer maker, it is my perrogative to do so. I support whatever stance dave must take. It is his collection, his money, and his experiences, not mine or anyone elses. It is my decision to purchase graded cards for the comfort of knowing that my cards were not doctored in any way. I felt that psa gave me the best opportunity to do that. I have learned from many people on this site that BVG, PRO, GEM-MiNT all have flaws in their grading process, while PSA stands by as the one service you can rely on. I am not saying that a card doesnt slide by, or isnt misgraded, I just feel for me it has the most consistancy. Now as far as customer service, treating the collectors properly, I cant elaborate, I havent been around long enough to make that judgement call. I can only put my experiences in this hobby and what I learn form other collectors here on the boards to make my decisions, and to dave, I would say.... I would be losing out on one more experienced person that I could learn a whole lot from about this hobby...and wherever your footsteps may take you, may you find peace and tranquility...
My sources have been dry for the past few months, but I still have a few months to locate one. When I do, I'll break it at the luncheon, instead of at the submission table with little fanfare (except Shane and Alan). I'm looking for a pack or two...
"...life is but a dream."
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Ok after recieving many emails mostly from members asking me to stay in and encouraging me to stay positive I am going to try and explain this so that there are no grey areas. Bob is right. PSA is not the deciding factor. There are many reasons why. I have always been a backer of PSA on their product and their ability to grade. There has never been a doubt in my mind they are the best at what they do. Does this mean they will meet everyones expectations because they are the best. No. being the best at what they do may mean 50%. I am not saying that is the number they are at so don't quote me. From a scale from 1-10 I would put them somewhere at 8.5. Others will grade them differant from me. Some won't grade them on the half point system some will. We have differant people on this board and will look at it in manys differant ways. What I do have a problem with at PSA is the customer service. The way they treat the layman is a tradgedy at best. We are constantly being swept under the rug. This is unacceptable to me. Their needs to be better treatment for those who actually drive the hobby. Without end users there are no dealers and without dealer submissions there is no PSA. Now I know not all the collectors are here but a good portion on the top sets reside with people here which brings me to the next reason. I have watched these boards go downhill for about six months now. Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. I have tried not say anything negative about PSA and dont beleive I have targeted them on issues accept giving a short opinion when policies are enforced. I now will say their customer service stinks. With that I will do what I preached if you are not happy with PSA you know were the door is. I know were that door is so I am walking. I tried to steer some friends away from the real reasons this week by telling them I was using the money for a development. This is somewhat true. I will use the money on the deveolpment but do not need to do so. Look guys you all have to make your own mind up on how you approach the issues that face graded cards. At this time because of the bickering between PSA and the members and the fact that neither side wants to give I choose to take some major steps back. It was not a suicide note as one or more would have you believe, it was not the fact that Jim Crandell(yes My friend as many of you are) was booted or that Vargha got S&%T on its every thing combined not ones fault but the fault of everything. I cannot keep my heart in this hobby when all the factions are fighting. Too much accusing for this collector. I will go back to were I was before I started buying PSA 5 years ago. Raw. I still have alot of raw sets and that is what I will collect. I will sell my graded cards and this is not a spam but a fact. I will keep some of the cards I enjoy the most but will most likely email the people I have done biz with in the past and try to help them. I will not address this on the board again but will take any email sent and try to respond quickly. Once again thanks to all who have helped me and I hope the constant negativity soon subsides before more fade away. I apoligize to those who will take this the wrong way and to those who truely try to promote the hobby and PSA . Sooner or later one side or another something will give and this will get better. When it does I will be back until then good luck to all and I will continue to help each and everyone of you if I have the ability to do so.
I don't know you, but I do know the issues you are addressing.
This may sound corny, but think of PSA, SGC, and GAI as Republican, Democrat, and Independent parties.
The great thing about America is that we have the freedom to voice our opinions. If this was Iraq, you know what Saddam Hussein would have done to the dissenters on this board.
I hope we all can appreciate being American card collectors. We love our hobby, and have the FREEDOM to express or NOT express our feelings about it.
What you see on these boards is what has made our country the greatest since its beginning.
DAVE - Thanks for explaining your stance. And I agree if your not happy with the situation, find a path that makes you happy. Hopefully we will still be in contact and I look foward to seeing you at the National, as I promised you I'd buy you a drink, and I hate to drink alone All the best...jay
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think that I pretty much feel the same way as you do. There isn't as much joy in collecting as there used to be. Good luck with your endeavors and I wish you the best.
Dave: Thanks for clarifying. No doubt that each one of us has been disappointed by any one of the multiple issues over the past 1-2 years, probablyback to WIWAG for me. You know I've got the first few rounds in Cleveland--hope you can be there.
Nothing wrong with a sabbattical, even if it goes more than a semester!
"...life is but a dream."
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
<< <i>Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
I must've missed all the threads about members being screwed, and the PSA bashing has been going on in one form or another for years on these forums. There's obviously a lot of other reasons why you're stepping away from graded cards, Dave, and I appreciate the fact that you came back to explain your position. I wish you'd reconsider, because I've always liked reading your posts, but I respect your decision.
Dave, Thanks for the explanation. I have never met you, but your posts have always been straightforward, and inciteful. I hope that in the future, PSA will improve the way they deal with customers, and you will return. Good Luck to you.
Everybody needs to find the best path for themselves.
I have been very busy the last 6-7 weeks with work issues. Not to busy to check ebay every night and pick up a few cards, but I have certainly been to busy to check out the board. Not sure what has gone on, but I for one have enjoyed collecting a lot more without the boards. A break was needed.
Stump- If it is the negativity on the board that is a problem, then stop reading. If it is PSA's customer service, I would contact Joe personally.
Good luck with your raw sets. I still have a few vintage sets I collect in raw form-- nothing wrong with that and it is a lit cheaper!
<< <i>I have watched these boards go downhill for about six months now. Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
These two sentences speak volumes and I couldn't agree more. Dave, I'll have to take your word for it that it was better six months ago. I guess I didn't see the "Membership Only" sign on my way in (oh wait, I HAVE a membership!) but I'll check it for on the way out, and maybe I'll be back at some future time.
<< <i>I have watched these boards go downhill for about six months now. Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
These two sentences speak volumes and I couldn't agree more. Dave, I'll have to take your word for it that it was better six months ago. I guess I didn't see the "Membership Only" sign on my way in (oh wait, I HAVE a membership!) but I'll check it for on the way out, and maybe I'll be back at some future time.
Scott >>
OK, where are all the threads about members getting accused of screwing people over? If anything, this board is a great place for exposing bad sellers, but I have yet to hear about bad trading among members of these forums. Plus, like I said, PSA bashing is nothing new around here.
Scott-- personally, I think that you've written some great posts, and you've made some great contributions in the short time you've been here. I like it when new people come into these forums and try to start threads about the hobby & PSA. It's better than just lurking in the shadows. You might check past threads by using the search tool so you don't bring up topics that have been discussed to death, but I hope you decide to keep on posting!
Stump- Thanks for jumping back on and giving your explanation. Reading between the lines of your post I get the impression that there are other issues, but I respect your decision. I haven't been very happy with some of PSA's "loose threads" either, but I'm hanging around to see how things shake out. Good luck in your collecting endeavors.
Does this mean they will meet everyones expectations because they are the best. No. being the best at what they do may mean 50%. I am not saying that is the number they are at so don't quote me.
I'm not quoting you but it's a fair quote and great point.
I apoligize to those who will take this the wrong way and to those who truely try to promote the hobby and PSA . Sooner or later one side or another something will give and this will get better. When it does I will be back until then good luck to all and I will continue to help each and everyone of you if I have the ability to do so.
Whatever is best for you.Hopefully you'll be back and by then hopefully everything will resituate eventually when you're ready to enjoy the hobby like you always have.Thanks for sharing a lot of your collection with us and some straight shooting thoughts about your trip till the end of the road for now.
We have differant people on this board and will look at it in manys differant ways.
1)From a hobby perspective it reminds me of the Top 200 Sports card list.200 dealers = 200 different lists.
2) Life - there are a few people who many of us befriended that died around here.AND thank God it's not the case with you.
2a) Sometimes your life is more important than the hobby itself.Some things to look forward to about that,however. Youl'll enjoy the hobby and the fruits of your labor and hard work is that you learn to appreciate much more than you ever thought you did until it's gone.You will learn more than you ever gave thought to.(it happened to me with ONE, I can imagine what a guy like you with all that you've done)
A great thing is you'll be back someday but you never really left.
Dave, I don't know you (or anyone else for that matter) but I applaud your courage.
To all: Ironically, it was exactly 6 months ago that I joined because I wanted to learn about the graded card phenomenon (I started collecting in 1970 and was in the business in the 1980s). Imo, this is the best place to learn, bar none. But....what I did learn turned me off from graded cards. It's not only the fractured nature of those in the hobby but also the inconsistencies of PSA and the mess that is eBay. With PSA, I understand that mistakes will be made but I attributed it to the massive volumns they have to grade quickly.
However, it is more than that. I understand the pursuit of building graded sets because after all of these years, it is something new to do. But I have come to the opinion that it is a fool's errand (to build graded sets). I understand (and have bought) graded star cards but not anything else in the set. First, I don't believe the insane pursuit of 'low pops' (as artificial that might be) and second, I just don't believe in paying $14.50 for a plastic slab when the same raw card can be bought for $2.50. People talk about 'buy the card not the slab' but in most all commons/minors, you are buying the slab not the card. Because since it has a sticker on it and is encased in plastic, you want to register it and think it is now worth more than $2.50.
I just don't see paying that kind of money when I can build my raw 1960s set that is just as nice for me without paying exaggerated prices. Along with this, I see no reason why to send cards (specifically, commons and minors) to PSA. These are the conclusions I have come to and in the past 6 months, I had not been convinced that non-star graded cards are worth it. But this is what I personally feel and not to be condencending on anyone (esp. since most here knows more than I do). Good luck.
Buccaneer - that's fine. Graded cards aren't for everyone.
If it's not worth it to you to pay a premium for a graded card, to be more assured that it hasn't been trimmed, altered, or overgraded, then you have made the correct choice to collect cards in raw form.
Some people get to the point where their collections represent a sizeable investment, so the additional assurance and protection of a buying a graded card becomes more important to them.
I enjoy my ungraded cards that aren't slab-worthy. I just don't tell them, so they never really know ...
I can just see Wolfbear talking to his cards like that chick in the MGD commercial talking to the Bud bottle. Here's Wolfie talking to his 89 Donruss set:
"I'm sorry, it's not you guys...it's me. Really. I do believe you're good enough for slabbing, so don't feel depressed. You're still one of my favorite sets and hold an important spot in my collection. Okay? We're still friends, right?"
Not to hijack the thread. I didn't realize Stump was selling; I thought he was just leaving the boards. Whatever you choose, Stump, you're a standup guy and I hope that you don't have any regrets.
The scary thing is that Stump could sell 20,000+ PSA slabs and still be left with more PSA cards in his collection than many of the people on this board (myself included).
Sorry you've decided to throw in the towel. You've been one of the premier PSA collectors and a great message board community member. Although there are problems now (aren't there always?), things change. Message boards always tend to gravitate toward hostility for some reason. Perhaps Freud would have a theory on the reasons for this if he were still around. I read this forum, the SGC forum, the Network54 forum and some news related forums and they all tend to be hostile at least some of the time. Regarding the customer service issues, they too go in cycles. In 1998-9 when PSA was booming, I remember sitting on the phone for tens of minutes waiting to talk to a live person. They did get those problems resolved. I hope they will take notice of the issues being highlighted by serious collectors such as yourself and take necessary actions to resolve them. I personally have not had any issues recently but it appears customer service is becoming a problem based on complaints from esteemed collectors such as yourself and Vargha.
Comments
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Count me in again this year. I wouldn't want to miss that! I'll even break a 86 topps wax pack just so you aren't opening packs alone.
Wayne
I'm not sure what you mean?
Dave
I don't know you, but I do know the issues you are addressing.
This may sound corny, but think of PSA, SGC, and GAI as
Republican, Democrat, and Independent parties.
The great thing about America is that we have the freedom to voice our opinions.
If this was Iraq, you know what Saddam Hussein would have done to the dissenters on this board.
I hope we all can appreciate being American card collectors.
We love our hobby, and have the FREEDOM to express or NOT express our feelings about it.
What you see on these boards is what has made our country the greatest since its beginning.
marc
Hopefully we will still be in contact and I look foward to seeing you at the National, as I promised you I'd buy you a drink, and I hate to drink alone
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think that I pretty much feel the same way as you do. There isn't as much joy in collecting as there used to be. Good luck with your endeavors and I wish you the best.
Wayne
Nothing wrong with a sabbattical, even if it goes more than a semester!
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
<< <i>Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them
and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
I must've missed all the threads about members being screwed, and
the PSA bashing has been going on in one form or another for years
on these forums. There's obviously a lot of other reasons why you're
stepping away from graded cards, Dave, and I appreciate the fact that
you came back to explain your position. I wish you'd reconsider, because
I've always liked reading your posts, but I respect your decision.
Good luck in the future, Stump!
Thanks for the explanation. I have never met you, but your posts have always been straightforward, and inciteful. I hope that in the future, PSA will improve the way they deal with customers, and you will return. Good Luck to you.
I have been very busy the last 6-7 weeks with work issues. Not to busy to check ebay every night and pick up a few cards, but I have certainly been to busy to check out the board. Not sure what has gone on, but I for one have enjoyed collecting a lot more without the boards. A break was needed.
Stump- If it is the negativity on the board that is a problem, then stop reading. If it is PSA's customer service, I would contact Joe personally.
Good luck with your raw sets. I still have a few vintage sets I collect in raw form-- nothing wrong with that and it is a lit cheaper!
<< <i>I have watched these boards go downhill for about six months now. Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
These two sentences speak volumes and I couldn't agree more. Dave, I'll have to take your word for it that it was better six months ago. I guess I didn't see the "Membership Only" sign on my way in (oh wait, I HAVE a membership!) but I'll check it for on the way out, and maybe I'll be back at some future time.
Scott
Crazysc
MissGoodAdvice
FatCat
BOTN
Brucemo
Dante
BubbaBeerBreath
MrBadAdvice
Fatty
Davalillo
Josher316(R.I.P)
ChicoBandito
And the list goes on and on...
<< <i>
<< <i>I have watched these boards go downhill for about six months now. Members are whining and acusing other members of screwing them and alot of PSA bashing about going on. >>
These two sentences speak volumes and I couldn't agree more. Dave, I'll have to take your word for it that it was better six months ago. I guess I didn't see the "Membership Only" sign on my way in (oh wait, I HAVE a membership!) but I'll check it for on the way out, and maybe I'll be back at some future time.
Scott >>
OK, where are all the threads about members getting accused of screwing
people over? If anything, this board is a great place for exposing bad
sellers, but I have yet to hear about bad trading among members of these
forums. Plus, like I said, PSA bashing is nothing new around here.
Scott-- personally, I think that you've written some great posts, and
you've made some great contributions in the short time you've been here.
I like it when new people come into these forums and try to start threads
about the hobby & PSA. It's better than just lurking in the shadows.
You might check past threads by using the search tool so you don't bring
up topics that have been discussed to death, but I hope you decide to
keep on posting!
"HELP MR. WIZARD, I DON'T WANT TO BE A PSA CARD COLLETOR ANYMORE!!! HEEELLLPP!!"
Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome. Time for this one to come home.
Always be what you is; not what you is not. Those who do this is the happiest lot.
Sorry to see you go Stump ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
I'm not quoting you but it's a fair quote and great point.
I apoligize to those who will take this the wrong way and to those who truely try to promote the hobby and PSA . Sooner or later one side or another something will give and this will get better. When it does I will be back until then good luck to all and I will continue to help each and everyone of you if I have the ability to do so.
Whatever is best for you.Hopefully you'll be back and by then hopefully everything will resituate eventually when you're ready to enjoy the hobby like you always have.Thanks for sharing a lot of your collection with us and some straight shooting thoughts about your trip till the end of the road for now.
We have differant people on this board and will look at it in manys differant ways.
1)From a hobby perspective it reminds me of the Top 200 Sports card list.200 dealers = 200 different lists.
2) Life - there are a few people who many of us befriended that died around here.AND thank God it's not the case with you.
2a) Sometimes your life is more important than the hobby itself.Some things to look forward to about that,however. Youl'll enjoy the hobby and the fruits of your labor and hard work is that you learn to appreciate much more than you ever thought you did until it's gone.You will learn more than you ever gave thought to.(it happened to me with ONE, I can imagine what a guy like you with all that you've done)
A great thing is you'll be back someday but you never really left.
My Auctions
To all: Ironically, it was exactly 6 months ago that I joined because I wanted to learn about the graded card phenomenon (I started collecting in 1970 and was in the business in the 1980s). Imo, this is the best place to learn, bar none. But....what I did learn turned me off from graded cards. It's not only the fractured nature of those in the hobby but also the inconsistencies of PSA and the mess that is eBay. With PSA, I understand that mistakes will be made but I attributed it to the massive volumns they have to grade quickly.
However, it is more than that. I understand the pursuit of building graded sets because after all of these years, it is something new to do. But I have come to the opinion that it is a fool's errand (to build graded sets). I understand (and have bought) graded star cards but not anything else in the set. First, I don't believe the insane pursuit of 'low pops' (as artificial that might be) and second, I just don't believe in paying $14.50 for a plastic slab when the same raw card can be bought for $2.50. People talk about 'buy the card not the slab' but in most all commons/minors, you are buying the slab not the card. Because since it has a sticker on it and is encased in plastic, you want to register it and think it is now worth more than $2.50.
I just don't see paying that kind of money when I can build my raw 1960s set that is just as nice for me without paying exaggerated prices. Along with this, I see no reason why to send cards (specifically, commons and minors) to PSA. These are the conclusions I have come to and in the past 6 months, I had not been convinced that non-star graded cards are worth it. But this is what I personally feel and not to be condencending on anyone (esp. since most here knows more than I do). Good luck.
But if you can find any NM/MT or Mint raw cards from 1961 for $2.50, please buy all that you can, and I will give you twice that for each one.
Buccaneer - that's fine. Graded cards aren't for everyone.
If it's not worth it to you to pay a premium for a graded card,
to be more assured that it hasn't been trimmed, altered, or overgraded,
then you have made the correct choice to collect cards in raw form.
Some people get to the point where their collections represent a sizeable investment,
so the additional assurance and protection of a buying a graded card becomes more important to them.
I enjoy my ungraded cards that aren't slab-worthy. I just don't tell them, so they never really know ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
"I'm sorry, it's not you guys...it's me. Really. I do believe you're good enough for slabbing, so don't feel depressed. You're still one of my favorite sets and hold an important spot in my collection. Okay? We're still friends, right?"
Not to hijack the thread. I didn't realize Stump was selling; I thought he was just leaving the boards. Whatever you choose, Stump, you're a standup guy and I hope that you don't have any regrets.
The scary thing is that Stump could sell 20,000+ PSA slabs and still be left with more PSA cards in his collection than many of the people on this board (myself included).
I hope to see you back sooner rather than later.
You know my take on these message boards is this, the participants are the boards. Don't deny us your experience or wisdom if its needed Stump.
Take it easy,
Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
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Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)