Holy Cow!!!! Everybody should stop wearing their feelings on their sleeve.
The way this is going, I will pay to fly all the contestants into one location for a steel cage death match. We could get CU to promote it. I want to know what everyone's ring "handle" will be, and what their particular ring attire will be.
Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
My point is not about proving that vintage is superior over modern cards. Again, everyone please stay away from the vintage stuff I collect! The reply is about what I consider a myth regarding the rarity (thus value) of modern cards. I've got some modern cards and like 'em.
In regard to getting in a physical fight over this issue, I would like to be there when the combatants explain to the police, wives, significant other, the reason they got into a fight.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
My point is not about proving that vintage is superior over modern cards. Again, everyone please stay away from the vintage stuff I collect! The reply is about what I consider a myth regarding the rarity (thus value) of modern cards. I've got some modern cards and like 'em.
In regard to getting in a physical fight over this issue, I would like to be there when the combatants explain to the police, wives, significant other, the reason they got into a fight. >>
Former MP here and getting onto the local force in my area. Beleive me they/we have heard worse!!!
<< <i>However, maybe it’s my bad eyesight, but whenever I see any newsworthy auctions or record breaking prices, I could swear it’s coming from the vintage market. >>
I don't think this is true. Have you opened a Beckett recently? Each month, Beckett documents key RCs from the 80s and 90s selling for thousands of dollars. Also, Beckett reports on recently pulled inserts and autograph cards selling for tens of thousands of dollars. Did you see the Topps product with the Presidential autograph cuts? Those things are also selling for tens of thousands of dollars each.
I am leaning more and more towards colleceting more vintage cards but high prices can be found in both modern and vintage.
Aknot....OK, I like your posts. But from here on in, your steel cage death match handle is "M.P." You will need to show up in green tights, camaflouge cap and your MP band on your bicep!! Root canals are no fun.
Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
Where did this idea come from that vintage cards are what all the 'savvy investors' are stockpiling? Has anyone seen what has happened to average price of the high-grade vintage card over the past four years?
If someone prefers card minted before 1975, great. If not, that's fine too. But let's get rid of this concept that vintage cards somehow rival Microsoft stock in terms of 'investment potential', while modern cards aren't worth the paper their printed on. If you're talking about 1952 PSA 9's, then sure-- there will always be a strong market for blue chip collectibles. But if you're patting yourself on the back because you've got a '67 set in PSA 8, then it's time to re-assess. The market for most post '60 stuff has trended downward over the past few years, and while it may rebound, remember the words of Confucious-- 'wise man doesn't try to catch falling knife'.
Again, everyone should collect what makes them happy. That's the point of the hobby. But nobody needs to hear this condescending crap from vintage collectors, particularly when it's not grounded in fact.
We'll I guess I was one of the posters who apparently conveyed "condescending crap." Nevertheless, I agree with you regarding the decline of post 1960 cards. I'm not a poster boy for vintage, but a realist who advocates that the future potential of modern cards and graded post '60s (maybe as early as '54) cards isn't what it seems.
However, I still adhere to the concept that modern cards have been over touted regarding rarity and future value potential. The 15 year old braced-faced kid behind the local card store counter and his friends seem to be investment specialists as they keep plunking down cash for mass produced hyped cards all the while referring to their Beckett guide and thinking about retirement.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
Well, I also followed up to that thread and sent MikeSchmidt a PM apology. If you can't get the crux of my message and want to keep it a vintage vs. modern debate so be it. Okay, how about this:
* You are right and I am wrong * You can expect a high rate of return on your modern card investment * When sellers tout their graded modern cards as something rare, I should check my account balance because I wouldn't want to miss out * The scores of sets produced since 1981 are about quality and not quantity * I should listen to card shop owners because they know about rare collectibles based on the large percentage of cards they carry that are produced after 2001 * I'll look for that modern card section in the next Mastro auction * T206 PSA 2 Magie for $2500, no way baby...I want that ARod super glossy thing because scores of people are bidding on it. * Kids, stock up and pay that price because the guide and honorable Ebay sellers know what's good for you.
There you go sir, I officially surrender all my theories.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
<< <i>Well, I also followed up to that thread and sent MikeSchmidt a PM apology. If you can't get the crux of my message and want to keep it a vintage vs. modern debate so be it. Okay, how about this:
* You are right and I am wrong * You can expect a high rate of return on your modern card investment * When sellers tout their graded modern cards as something rare, I should check my account balance because I wouldn't want to miss out * The scores of sets produced since 1981 are about quality and not quantity * I should listen to card shop owners because they know about rare collectibles based on the large percentage of cards they carry that are produced after 2001 * I'll look for that modern card section in the next Mastro auction * T206 PSA 2 Magie for $2500, no way baby...I want that ARod super glossy thing because scores of people are bidding on it. * Kids, stock up and pay that price because the guide and honorable Ebay sellers know what's good for you.
There you go sir, I officially surrender all my theories. >>
I would just like to say that I agree that modern stuff in graded form will not be as valuable as what vintage stuff is currently in graded form 20 years from now because everyone is having their cards slabbed right out of packs. There will be millions of GEM MINT cards of today;s stuff even 30 years from now. We were taught how to preserve them ever since PSA and Beckett started doing this.
They didn't have this technology or idea back in the 50's-60's, and the idea of making $$$ on the cards kids pulled back then wasn't there. Kids collected cards back then. Now 80% of the "collectors" are adults because of the strong possibility of profit, and the ever increasing cost of a std every day pack. This is so obvious.
However, cards produced back in the 60's and 70's may have not have had the luxury of grading services, but they also didn't have serial numbered rookies, or certified autographs either.
Most of the high priced modern stuff is usually one or the other. I love the possibility of owning a Mark Prior Auto'd RC that only 249 other people have the chance of owning ( Ultimate Collection )!! Even the greatest players back when couldn't boast this! How about the GOLD REFRACTORS in Bowman Chrome that have only 50 produced. If you really want to, you could own a good portion of that 50 if you have the $$$ and the time to snatch them all up on Ebay. That to me is pretty cool.
Old Mays, Banks, and Mantles ( to name a few ) are cool, but not my cup of tea. I can appreciate the allure of these cards though. But me personally, I enjoy watching the profits AND the player earn that profit at the same time. With the vintage stuff, you just buy it and hope that your card goes up for some odd particular reason each month.
Just remeber one thing vintage collectors - Those cards are cool, but no one knows the exact number of cards for sure of any set that Topps produced during any given year. I'm sure they are lower, but just like modern cards, as long as more and more cards keep surfacing and get slabbed with decent grades, the more chances of these cards losing value just because of the increase in the population.
But one advantage of the modern cards is that I can be sure that their will not be more than 250 of the '01 Ultimate Collection Mark Prior Auto RC ever graded at one time. Never!!! Even 50 years from now. Now that to me is something us modern collectors could brag about!
Hugs not drugs.
TheRoach
7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
<< <i>But one advantage of the modern cards is that I can be sure that their will not be more than 250 of the '01 Ultimate Collection Mark Prior Auto RC ever graded at one time. Never!!! Even 50 years from now. >>
Roach I totally concur. That's the heart of the excitement of modern - if I own just ONE of those cards - especially if I pulled it and had it graded out to what I wanted - that is Satisfaction - in the same light - I just picked up a PSA 8 61T Musial from Legacy below SMR that is extremely well centered - that is also Satisfaction.
I was disappointed in X and go Duke - the final four awaits! Mike
I follow your line of logic Roach and it's quite good. My only additive to your reply is that the number of limited edition sets produced is so high, that it undermines the allure of anything that is considered limited edition. For example, if some asks me to identify a card from a "limited edition" set that was produced after 1981, I wouldn't know where to start since there seems to be hundreds. Starting in 1982, many artists created limited edition artworks that sold for $1000s, but those “investments” today are worth pennies to the original dollar.
Again, it's not about vintage vs. modern, but true scarcity versus commonality. And I don't consider Topps Regular issues - even back to the '50s - anything special. If you wanted a Mantle rookie, just click on Ebay and you'll find one, that's not rare. So it’s not that I don’t consider modern cards attractive – and in your Mark Prior example even scarce – but I just can’t justify the hype and prices. A previous post indicated that owning a PSA 8 1967 Topps set wasn’t such a big deal, I agree in terms of the scarcity that is hyped (although I think it’s quite an accomplishment to complete such a set.)
We always end such posts with something to the likes of, “collect what you want.” That’s probably the best advice. But following the herd usually ends in disappointment.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
Don't be a smart ass. I made a point re: your earlier remarks, on an earlier thread, which I think all here would agree were out of line. If you're contrite, then great-- it's nice to see people on these boards who are man enough to admit when they've breached the boundries of common courtesy. But to put up a curt little post like this one serves no purpose, and is, quite frankly, beneath you.
Comments
<< <i> Then again, I don’t know anything since I spend my money on high priced Venezuelan cards that nobody wants. >>
Thats that young pitcher for the Devil Rays right?
Everybody should stop wearing their feelings on their sleeve.
The way this is going, I will pay to fly all the contestants into one location for a steel cage death match. We could get CU to promote it.
I want to know what everyone's ring "handle" will be, and what their particular ring attire will be.
My point is not about proving that vintage is superior over modern cards. Again, everyone please stay away from the vintage stuff I collect! The reply is about what I consider a myth regarding the rarity (thus value) of modern cards. I've got some modern cards and like 'em.
In regard to getting in a physical fight over this issue, I would like to be there when the combatants explain to the police, wives, significant other, the reason they got into a fight.
<< <i>Good reply Dirty Harry.
My point is not about proving that vintage is superior over modern cards. Again, everyone please stay away from the vintage stuff I collect! The reply is about what I consider a myth regarding the rarity (thus value) of modern cards. I've got some modern cards and like 'em.
In regard to getting in a physical fight over this issue, I would like to be there when the combatants explain to the police, wives, significant other, the reason they got into a fight. >>
Former MP here and getting onto the local force in my area. Beleive me they/we have heard worse!!!
<< <i>However, maybe it’s my bad eyesight, but whenever I see any newsworthy auctions or record breaking prices, I could swear it’s coming from the vintage market. >>
I don't think this is true. Have you opened a Beckett recently? Each month, Beckett documents key RCs from the 80s and 90s selling for thousands of dollars. Also, Beckett reports on recently pulled inserts and autograph cards selling for tens of thousands of dollars. Did you see the Topps product with the Presidential autograph cuts? Those things are also selling for tens of thousands of dollars each.
I am leaning more and more towards colleceting more vintage cards but high prices can be found in both modern and vintage.
But from here on in, your steel cage death match handle is "M.P."
You will need to show up in green tights, camaflouge cap and your MP band on your bicep!!
Root canals are no fun.
If someone prefers card minted before 1975, great. If not, that's fine too. But let's get rid of this concept that vintage cards somehow rival Microsoft stock in terms of 'investment potential', while modern cards aren't worth the paper their printed on. If you're talking about 1952 PSA 9's, then sure-- there will always be a strong market for blue chip collectibles. But if you're patting yourself on the back because you've got a '67 set in PSA 8, then it's time to re-assess. The market for most post '60 stuff has trended downward over the past few years, and while it may rebound, remember the words of Confucious-- 'wise man doesn't try to catch falling knife'.
Again, everyone should collect what makes them happy. That's the point of the hobby. But nobody needs to hear this condescending crap from vintage collectors, particularly when it's not grounded in fact.
However, I still adhere to the concept that modern cards have been over touted regarding rarity and future value potential. The 15 year old braced-faced kid behind the local card store counter and his friends seem to be investment specialists as they keep plunking down cash for mass produced hyped cards all the while referring to their Beckett guide and thinking about retirement.
* You are right and I am wrong
* You can expect a high rate of return on your modern card investment
* When sellers tout their graded modern cards as something rare, I should check my account balance because I wouldn't want to miss out
* The scores of sets produced since 1981 are about quality and not quantity
* I should listen to card shop owners because they know about rare collectibles based on the large percentage of cards they carry that are produced after 2001
* I'll look for that modern card section in the next Mastro auction
* T206 PSA 2 Magie for $2500, no way baby...I want that ARod super glossy thing because scores of people are bidding on it.
* Kids, stock up and pay that price because the guide and honorable Ebay sellers know what's good for you.
There you go sir, I officially surrender all my theories.
<< <i>Well, I also followed up to that thread and sent MikeSchmidt a PM apology. If you can't get the crux of my message and want to keep it a vintage vs. modern debate so be it. Okay, how about this:
* You are right and I am wrong
* You can expect a high rate of return on your modern card investment
* When sellers tout their graded modern cards as something rare, I should check my account balance because I wouldn't want to miss out
* The scores of sets produced since 1981 are about quality and not quantity
* I should listen to card shop owners because they know about rare collectibles based on the large percentage of cards they carry that are produced after 2001
* I'll look for that modern card section in the next Mastro auction
* T206 PSA 2 Magie for $2500, no way baby...I want that ARod super glossy thing because scores of people are bidding on it.
* Kids, stock up and pay that price because the guide and honorable Ebay sellers know what's good for you.
There you go sir, I officially surrender all my theories. >>
I would just like to say that I agree that modern stuff in graded form will not be as valuable as what vintage stuff is currently in graded form 20 years from now because everyone is having their cards slabbed right out of packs. There will be millions of GEM MINT cards of today;s stuff even 30 years from now. We were taught how to preserve them ever since PSA and Beckett started doing this.
They didn't have this technology or idea back in the 50's-60's, and the idea of making $$$ on the cards kids pulled back then wasn't there. Kids collected cards back then. Now 80% of the "collectors" are adults because of the strong possibility of profit, and the ever increasing cost of a std every day pack. This is so obvious.
However, cards produced back in the 60's and 70's may have not have had the luxury of grading services, but they also didn't have serial numbered rookies, or certified autographs either.
Most of the high priced modern stuff is usually one or the other. I love the possibility of owning a Mark Prior Auto'd RC that only 249 other people have the chance of owning ( Ultimate Collection )!! Even the greatest players back when couldn't boast this! How about the GOLD REFRACTORS in Bowman Chrome that have only 50 produced. If you really want to, you could own a good portion of that 50 if you have the $$$ and the time to snatch them all up on Ebay. That to me is pretty cool.
Old Mays, Banks, and Mantles ( to name a few ) are cool, but not my cup of tea. I can appreciate the allure of these cards though. But me personally, I enjoy watching the profits AND the player earn that profit at the same time. With the vintage stuff, you just buy it and hope that your card goes up for some odd particular reason each month.
Just remeber one thing vintage collectors - Those cards are cool, but no one knows the exact number of cards for sure of any set that Topps produced during any given year. I'm sure they are lower, but just like modern cards, as long as more and more cards keep surfacing and get slabbed with decent grades, the more chances of these cards losing value just because of the increase in the population.
But one advantage of the modern cards is that I can be sure that their will not be more than 250 of the '01 Ultimate Collection Mark Prior Auto RC ever graded at one time. Never!!! Even 50 years from now. Now that to me is something us modern collectors could brag about!
Hugs not drugs.
TheRoach
<< <i>But one advantage of the modern cards is that I can be sure that their will not be more than 250 of the '01 Ultimate Collection Mark Prior Auto RC ever graded at one time. Never!!! Even 50 years from now. >>
Roach
I totally concur. That's the heart of the excitement of modern - if I own just ONE of those cards - especially if I pulled it and had it graded out to what I wanted - that is Satisfaction - in the same light - I just picked up a PSA 8 61T Musial from Legacy below SMR that is extremely well centered - that is also Satisfaction.
I was disappointed in X and go Duke - the final four awaits!
Mike
Again, it's not about vintage vs. modern, but true scarcity versus commonality. And I don't consider Topps Regular issues - even back to the '50s - anything special. If you wanted a Mantle rookie, just click on Ebay and you'll find one, that's not rare. So it’s not that I don’t consider modern cards attractive – and in your Mark Prior example even scarce – but I just can’t justify the hype and prices. A previous post indicated that owning a PSA 8 1967 Topps set wasn’t such a big deal, I agree in terms of the scarcity that is hyped (although I think it’s quite an accomplishment to complete such a set.)
We always end such posts with something to the likes of, “collect what you want.” That’s probably the best advice. But following the herd usually ends in disappointment.
Good luck on your Venezualans.