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Did you ever have the feeling the PCGS graders just XXXXXXed you???

MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Just got this one back! When I submitted it I felt that this coin was a PR69DCAM hands down. Checked it for hairlines, there were none. Even my lousy photo skills can't make this coin look bad! PCGS grade, PR68DCAM! Maybe I should have had Russ submit it!!! image

image
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

«1

Comments

  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭
    Looks AU-58 to me. imageimage
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Marty, that one looks so nice it does not even look real! mike image
  • byergobyergo Posts: 586 ✭
    No KY this time!
    Buy/Sell/Trade Rainbow Morgans
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭
    Marty, it's just you the graders have this fun with. We all get PR69DACMs, but just try not to tell you so you won't feel badimage Isn't is nice to have friends like us?

    edited to add: BTW, that sure is a nice coin!
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • BubbleheadBubblehead Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭
    I totally agree with you, Marty!
    Seems like someone had a bad day.
    That sucker is one helluva nice coin, IMHO..
    Try it again... Ouch..sorry.
    .image
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Nope I refuse to give PCGS another grading fee on this one! It hits E-Bay tonight!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • quattrocoinsquattrocoins Posts: 1,881
    In reply to your question: about 50% 0f the time.
    I guees I'm just a whore, as I consider the other 50% as payment! image
    FULL Heads RULE!
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Is there a little abrasion on the lower part of the shield and tail feathers?
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • ksteelheaderksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭
    Sometimes.....
  • jonesyjonesy Posts: 5,031
    I can't believe that's not a 69. image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It hits E-Bay tonight! >>



    Run a 1 day auction starting at $1 no reserve, closing about 3 AM with no images.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • barberloverbarberlover Posts: 2,228 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It hits E-Bay tonight! >>



    Run a 1 day auction starting at $1 no reserve, closing about 3 AM with no images.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    English translation of the above comment; sell it to me at 68 bid without giving anyone else pic's or time to think about it so I can buy it cheap and play "the crack out game".

    Did I guess wrong Russ ? image

    Les
    The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
  • JadeRareCoinJadeRareCoin Posts: 2,768 ✭
    No KY this time!

    They used KY, but they threw in a handful of sand with it. image
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • jonesyjonesy Posts: 5,031


    << <i>Did you ever have the feeling the PCGS graders just SCREWED you??? >>


    MadMarty!!! DAMMIT BOY!!! image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Man, I can't believe Marty. I offered him moon money and he turned it down.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's no way I can give an informed comment off a scan, but I can give a guess. I'd say that they thought the DCAM was weak so they knocked it down a grade and gave you the benefit of the doubt on the designation....
    Early Dollar Set
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    TDN,

    For somebody who collects those old coins, you have a pretty damned good handle on how PCGS approaches grading these modern cameos. I think you are right on the money, and would note that it also frequently goes the other direction.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am drawn to that coin based on the image. But, I have to ask... How'd you get an EF coin to look so nice? image

    Seriously, Marty, what about those two obv flecks? On the plastic, I assume?

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Russ,

    Comments like that will go straight to his already over-sized head.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    It's a roll of the dice on a lot of the modern high grade stuff IMO......submit that coin 10 more times and you're likely to get a couple 69DCAM's, a couple 69 CAM's, a couple 68 CAM's, a few more 68 DCAM's, etc.

    I also think PCGS plays with the CAM/DCAM designation just like NGC plays with their '*' designation, sometimes you get the grade and no designation, sometimes the other way. PCGS also uses the PL designation on Morgans that are just BARELY semi PL at best if the coin is PQ for the grade as a reward of a premium grade coin of sorts........so like I said, it's all a roll of the dice and how many times you're willing to ante up another grading fee IMO.

    dragon
  • JrGMan2004JrGMan2004 Posts: 7,557 ✭


    << <i>Did you ever have the feeling the PCGS graders just SCREWED you??? >>



    I don't know Marty... does your Bottom Hurt? image
    -George
    42/92
  • RGLRGL Posts: 3,784 ✭
    I just received back my last submission...I was not wrong. I had a PR-68 CAM 1960 Jeff that went PR-67 (brilliant) and a 1964 PR-68 DCAM Jeff that went PR-67 CAM ... and don't get me started on my last economy and a 1966 SMS Jeff that went MS-66 CAM ... image
    The Ludlow Collection (DCAM/CAM)
    The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)

    image
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    RGL,

    .............yet further evidence of the accuracy of my above post
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165 ✭
    I refuse to comment on the grounds that I DEFINITELY will impose harsher punishment on my self!image
    Boom's Retired Registry Set & Boom's Retired Variety Set
    image
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    And I'll add one more observation........

    Now that the crackout game with many classic coins has been played to death over the past 10-15 years and nearly every coin has now been maxed out via numerous resubmissions, I can see PCGS's major revenue base coming from the modern coin crackout game over the next 3-5 years, especially with the huge price differentials in some grades and designations.


    dragon
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    I'd say that they thought the DCAM was weak so they knocked it down a grade and gave you the benefit of the doubt on the designation....

    Pretty smart post.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, but I see numerous specks in your pic. 68 is fair in my opinion......M below chin, etc....
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    Can you say XXXXXX here?
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    What does Kentucky have to do with it, they didn't even make the playoffsimage-------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭✭
    Here's a thought Marty. Why don't you try submitting to NGC. Probably get that 69 D/C. image

    Joe
    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Joe,

    He doesn't need to go through that hassle. All he has to do is take my stupid money, giant wad of cash offer for the coin.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • RodiusRodius Posts: 857 ✭
    First of all image this coin is spectacular. I will say that I got a couple of coins back from PCGS and I did not agree with the grade. Last year I submitted a 1966 SMS Roosevelt and was sure it was coming back 67CAM. The cameo was so very nice that I felt it boardered DCAM. It came back 67 or 66 with no cam. I was so dissapointed, that was the last coin I submitted for about 18 months. On the other hand I think at times they tend to overgrade a bit at times. I have purchased some 69DCAM Jeff's that I would not grade CAM. It is all subjective anyway. Just get the right grader that has integrity and catch them on a good day and you may be surprised. I just sent off 4 coins as I wanted to try submission again. I will be satisfied with the results this time as these were the free for re-joining the club.
    imagePCUSAimage
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭
    Looks like a 68DCAM to me also madmartyimage

    Cameron Kiefer
  • RodiusRodius Posts: 857 ✭
    I forgot to ask, did you list that gorgeous Kennedy or did you sell to the thread? image
    imagePCUSAimage
  • RodiusRodius Posts: 857 ✭
    Cameron

    Bidding on your 2003-S 69DCAM Jeff. Looks better than the one I submitted. Hope I win.
    imagePCUSAimage
  • aem4162aem4162 Posts: 421 ✭
    at the risk of being banned from this forum for being too much of a noob, wtf is the difference between a 68 and 69? why all the whining? it's a beautiful coin and it's YOURS. grading proof state coins (and mint states for that matter) gets to be a matter of opinion. having a pr69dcam isn't gonna make your penis any bigger.
    anita...ana #r-217183...coin collecting noob
    image
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    aem, I think you hit a soft spot---------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭


    << <i>having a pr69dcam isn't gonna make your penis any bigger. >>



    No, but it will make my wallet fatter!!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    The difference between 68 and 69 is substantial financially, so it's pretty important to the submitter that PCGS gets it right. Marty's coin is a STUD, and I can understand why he feels it should get the designation. Having looked at the pic, I see nothing that would keep it out of a 69 holder, so I assume TDN is right, and they didn't want to give the coin the money grade because it was Dcam but not the whitest one they've ever seen. Either that, or Marty had it right in his original post. I never can tell how much contrast a coin has in his reverse pics. It's a damned fine looking 64.image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • Wolfy00002Wolfy00002 Posts: 471
    Marty, what is your eBay name?
  • JadeRareCoinJadeRareCoin Posts: 2,768 ✭
    I think that Marty is using stock photography. image The coin image that he posted is magnificent and every bit of a PF-69. This is one of those coins that you have to send in 8, 9 or 10 times to get the deserved (desired) grade. It's still a beauty regardless of the slab grade.
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • JadeRareCoinJadeRareCoin Posts: 2,768 ✭
    Marty, what is your eBay name?

    I think it's either "ah-collectibles" or "compu-cheap". Something like that. image
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • aem4162aem4162 Posts: 421 ✭


    << <i>The difference between 68 and 69 is substantial financially, so it's pretty important to the submitter that PCGS gets it right. Marty's coin is a STUD, and I can understand why he feels it should get the designation. Having looked at the pic, I see nothing that would keep it out of a 69 holder, so I assume TDN is right, and they didn't want to give the coin the money grade because it was Dcam but not the whitest one they've ever seen. Either that, or Marty had it right in his original post. I never can tell how much contrast a coin has in his reverse pics. It's a damned fine looking 64.image >>



    it is a truly beautiful coin. i'm just into collecting for the fun and not the money.
    anita...ana #r-217183...coin collecting noob
    image
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    I pretty sure MadMarty"s E-Bay handle is aswimmer, lokk at the sunset toning on his icon-------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭
    Consistently inconsistent!



    image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    Yeah bumperone, and PCI and NTC are really consistent, that's why you sell them, right?
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    He probably always gets his problem coins high graded with PCI, and has great turnaround times with NTC....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    Looky here, he won't even use PCI in the title!

    PCI 54 Lincoln
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    His descriptions are very much like Doops.........

    This is were I first read the stillwater mirrors comments......

    Except Doops is making this claim with NGC/PCGs coins.....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146 ✭
    hmmmm DCAM on that one seems generous. yes the obv is a lovely DCAM but the reverse.......
    doesnt look CAM even.

    I guess it was either a 68 DCAM or a 69 CAM or even 69 no-CAM.
    Based on what the pic says to me anyway.

    Cant really grade coins accurately from computer images, especially Proof coins..IMO

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