I said I was tired of my own post, but I do feel I could try and help you out and explain this. this is at least the way I see it.
I am usually the person that will ask the seller to end the auction early because I may have missed out on the card at one time before, or I even offer the seller a price that may be a little less than WHAT I THINK IT WILL END AT. That doesn't mean it is going to end at that price, it's just a hunch. I am happy with what I offered and it is then up to the seller to decide if he would be happy with the offer also.
Now, I just gave you my reasoning. It's usually to try and avoid last minute battles between 2 other bidders that could possibly drive up the card's price. Eliminate that possibility.
Now, from the seller's perspective, he may get an offer of $200 for a card that is currently at $50 with 3 days to go. He isn't sure that the card will get that much if the auction goes the duration, so he accepts. In this case he is guaranteed the $200. If he tells me to just put the bid down for $200, that doesn't guarantee him the whole $200. Maybe it would end at $110. I would still win, but he would be upset that he didn't get the original $200 I offered.
In my way of doing it, I am comfortable with my initial offer, and he is also if he accepts. In your scenario, I could be even more happier if the card sells fro less than my $200 bid, but now the seller is unhappy that he missed out on an additional $90. Isn't this pretty clear??? It is to me. Did you ever hear the song "Go on take the money and run"? That's what is happening here. Possession is 7/10 the law. Or something close to that. Ebay has rules, but as the saying goes, rules are meant to be bent ( broke sounds a bit worse ).
Now AKnot, why don't you help me out and get me some answers. You tell me why so many people are worried that a seller may dodge a Ebat fee here or there when they allow thousands of scammers, cheats, ripoffs, and con artists to deal on their site. These people are a direct reflection of Ebay. I have seen sellers with 90% feedback and over 3,000 deals. All of their negatives are regarding some kind of rip off. "mailed $$$, never sent the card", or "rip off! stay away from this dealer". I know that some buyers could lie, but when a seller has 20-30 of these negative remarks, why does Ebay allow them to continue to sell and rip off their customers?? This is the company that several people on this thread are defending!! Personally, it makes me sick. These are people that have obviously never been taken for their $$$ from a seller on Ebay that they get to watch continue to sell each day because Ebay does nothing about it.
Their rules are way too easy to circumvent. If a rip off seller gets kicked off for taking tons of people's money, he can have another account set up within minutes. Nobody can tell me otherwise.
It comes down to this. The only reason that Ebay allows these bad sellers to keep selling and ripping people off out of product and money is because these very same sellers are pumping money into Ebay's pockets each month. Some of these jerkoff sellers ripoff 1 out of every 20 people they deal with, but they also sell 100 things a week. Do you know how much $$$ that is for Ebay? They are ignorant and terrible at investigating theft or fraud. They are only concerned about the almighty buck. The proof is all over on their site.
So if you think that a seller "screws" Ebay out of $$$ when they end an auction early, just think about the millions ( literally ) of dollars that their customers get screwed out of by $hitty sellers that Ebay represents. And if you are bothered by the fact that you don't have a shot at a card because I agreed to a deal with the seller off line? Hey, life goes on. Haven't you ever had someone step in front of a cab just when you thought you had it? Almost the same thing. If it bothers you, contact Ebay and have them work on this. It will more than likely sit on a file right next to the one I filed over a year ago for reimbursement on a '87 Fleer Barry Bonds that I paid $100 for and was ripped off. When people wake up and realize that Ebay uses us all for our money and could care less about us individually, things may get smoother. As for now, I will use Ebay as means of $$$ also. 95% of the time my auctions run sound, but if I see something i want, I make an offer. Like I said before, the seller could say "NO", right?
TheRoach
Beer Stein
7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
Im talking about an "Auction" in general. If you were at an Auction in person and people were bidding on an object and in the middle of bidding you walked up and whispered an amount in the persons ear, and he took that offer dont you think some people would be upset?
While you cant TELL why a person ended the auction early it still leaves a bad taste in the other bidders mouths when they are thinking they have a "fair shake" and they dont. As for the Taxi comment its people like that, that are "screwing" the world as we know it. You know the people that think they need to have what they want when they want and to hell with everyone else.
What is wrong with driving up the cards price? You either want it or not. If you want it bad enough you would/should put the most amount you are willing to pay for it.
The seller knows (or should know) that he may "loose" out if he does not "sell" accordingly. Meaning if he doesnt put a reserve or expects a card to do better then it should.
Other people that may be interested in that cards "market" value also loose out.
I can honestly say that it has never happened to me (auction being "pulled" while Im activly bidding) but Im going to be selling soon (hopefully) and would/will not cater to outside offers. (Well maybe a BILLLLION dollars)
Again im not saying this because "Ebay" gets skirted. Im saying this because of the people that loose out in getting a card they THOUGHT they had a fair chance at. You know like you stated earlier where you "missed" out on a card. Why did you miss out? Outbidded? Should of bidded higher. Auction "pulled"? Well you got "screwed" on a pulled auction so you figure you will screw others?
As for your other "Ebay" faults. It has to start somewhere, you and others "skirting" Ebay and "sticking" it to the "man" only hurts the hobby and other collectors in general.
What is wrong with driving up the cards price? You either want it or not. If you want it bad enough you would/should put the most amount you are willing to pay for it.
The seller knows (or should know) that he may "loose" out if he does not "sell" accordingly. Meaning if he doesnt put a reserve or expects a card to do better then it should.
Other people that may be interested in that cards "market" value also loose out.
I can honestly say that it has never happened to me (auction being "pulled" while Im activly bidding) but Im going to be selling soon (hopefully) and would/will not cater to outside offers. (Well maybe a BILLLLION dollars)
Again im not saying this because "Ebay" gets skirted. Im saying this because of the people that loose out in getting a card they THOUGHT they had a fair chance at. You know like you stated earlier where you "missed" out on a card. Why did you miss out? Outbidded? Should of bidded higher. Auction "pulled"? Well you got "screwed" on a pulled auction so you figure you will screw others?
As for your other "Ebay" faults. It has to start somewhere, you and others "skirting" Ebay and "sticking" it to the "man" only hurts the hobby and other collectors in general.
So how is this helping anyone but you? >>
It's helping the seller also. When I buy a card from the seller, he is the only person I am thinking or care about. Do you think that I have you in mind? When you buy a pair of gym shoes do you really stop and think that maybe they were put together in a sweat shop?
It's a dog eat dog world and it sounds like you are going to make a very tasty lunch one day. I could care less about anyone else bidding on the auctions I bid on. In fact, I despise them as potential people who can outbid me.
You guys take this way too far. As far as I know, you are the biggest scammer in the world and a great big liar. At least I am honest and have made deals with others on these boards at one time or another. If you are this gung ho hobby savior, have fun. I don't trim cards, counterfeit, or even pack search. Those to me seem to be a much bigger concern. Why don't you focus your moral and ethic speeches in that direction. Let me guess, sooner or later, I will be doing that to, right?
Priests have great ethics from the way I was brought up, and every other day I am hearing about another one that molested a little kid. What do have to say about that? I don't even know you, but I am supposed to look out for you and let you outbid me? If this was sooo illegal, Ebay would have stopped it by now. They have records of every auction that is ended on a daily basis and the Paypal records showing that someone paid offline. So, you go your way, I'll go mine. I will guarantee you that I get to the finish line first.
Give me one reason to consider everyone else when I am trying to make money? I buy cards from a seller who agrees with my offer. Plain and simple. For as many people as there are bashing this technique, there is just as many ( if not more ) that are on my side.
Good luck in the future Aknot. Your feelings are considered, but at the same time dismissed. There is millions of cards on Ebay on any given day. I don't have the money to buy them all. You act like I owe any members on Ebay something? What have they ever done for me? It's not personal because I don't know any of them personally. Am I part of some secrer collector's society that I need to look out for? Give me a break. I collect cards. I chat on these boards. It's not too complex. If you think you owe everyone on these boards something for some reason, so be it. I like most of the people on these boards, but that doesn't mean that they will stand in the way of me making money for me and my family.
Remember - It's a dog eat dog world. And it is very possible that the same person that taught you a majority of your ethics ( a priest ), also molested some children at one time. I know that is very unfortunate and disturbing, but that is the sick world we live in. I have 2 kids myself and I have learned not to trust too many people these days. Especially people I never met!!
TheRoach
7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
Rules are rules and you admit to "skirting" those rules. Why should I think you dont "skirt" other ones? Just because you are honest about it?
Only time will tell about me. Ive done a little here with others. As for my ethics I learned them from my mother and growing up. I just look at it differently then you. Where as you are "out to get them before they get you" Im a play by the rules and hope that everyone else does also.
Its different if there was a "gray" area but there is not. The "rules" are being broken.
On you being honest THAT I can respect. Or can I? Thats the beauty about being online. People can almost get away with anything, breaking rules, lying, cheating etc. But just because you can does not mean you should.
Hopefully this conversation does not ever deter you from bidding on my auctions nor rejecting an offer I have on one of yours.
Its been stimulating but appears you are set as am I. I hope the people on the "outside" looking in got some information.
<< <i>Hopefully this conversation does not ever deter you from bidding on my auctions nor rejecting an offer I have on one of yours.
Its been stimulating but appears you are set as am I. I hope the people on the "outside" looking in got some information. >>
Trust me, I NEVER take anything on these boards personal. I have 2 kids at home, both boys. One is 2 years, 9 months and the other is 9 months. They give me more headaches than I need. If I let anything said on these boards bother me, I would hang myself.
We just don't see eye to eye. If skipping out on Ebay fees and "depriving" someone else of a card on Ebay here or there makes me a villian on these boards, I will have to live with that. Just believe me when I say that I am not alone on these boards. I am just choosing to admit it because I don't see it as big of a deal as some of you are making it.
I "break" Ebay rules and others on these boards break other rules I'm sure. Some that probably make mine seem like a good deed in comparison. I am an avid collector and would never shy away from anyone's auctions on these boards just because we don't see eye to eye. I really enjoy the debates sometimes.
I respect your interest in the hobby and I wish I could say that everyone agreed with each other and the world was a perfect place to live, but I can't. Breaking an ebay rule is as far as I go unless you count the numerous impure thoughts I have each day. That's just me. I'm a family man, I enjoy the hobby, and I love talking sports.
Let us all know when you start listing. But do me a favor and let me know first so I can make you some side offers. Just kidding. No harm done, none intended. I hope we can all enjoy each other's company and leave our DEEP PERSONAL BELIEFS out of these forums from now on. Half the beauty of these boards and America is the freedom of speech. You can try, but you'll never make eveyone happy. That's something my mother always told me...
Take care Aknot. BTW, good deal on that lot. Looks like you'll make some $$$ on that puppy. I'd be like a pig in $hit rolling around in all of those cards!
TheRoach
7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
<< <i>Take care Aknot. BTW, good deal on that lot. Looks like you'll make some $$$ on that puppy. I'd be like a pig in $hit rolling around in all of those cards!
TheRoach
>>
Well I was......all nekkid like but my wife caught me.....
<< <i>I'm a family man, I enjoy the hobby, and I love talking sports. >>
Roach I believe that - this has gone way further than anyone would want - reading between the lines - you are a good guy or you wouldn't have spent that much time discussing it - sociopaths never think they have done anything wrong - I personally have had private contact with Aknot (Jim) and he is genuinely a good guy like yourself. Mike
<< <i> I believe that - this has gone way further than anyone would want - reading between the lines - you are a good guy or you wouldn't have spent that much time discussing it - sociopaths never think they have done anything wrong - I personally have had private contact with Aknot (Jim) and he is genuinely a good guy like yourself. Mike >>
Thanks Stone. You came onto the boards after me and I remember chatting with you about lots of questions you had. I'll continue to help when I can. You have twice as many posts now! You're all grown up now! Keep it cool and quit with your book length posts, they are driving us nuts! LOL.
TheRoach
7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
Comments
I said I was tired of my own post, but I do feel I could try and help you out and explain this. this is at least the way I see it.
I am usually the person that will ask the seller to end the auction early because I may have missed out on the card at one time before, or I even offer the seller a price that may be a little less than WHAT I THINK IT WILL END AT. That doesn't mean it is going to end at that price, it's just a hunch. I am happy with what I offered and it is then up to the seller to decide if he would be happy with the offer also.
Now, I just gave you my reasoning. It's usually to try and avoid last minute battles between 2 other bidders that could possibly drive up the card's price. Eliminate that possibility.
Now, from the seller's perspective, he may get an offer of $200 for a card that is currently at $50 with 3 days to go. He isn't sure that the card will get that much if the auction goes the duration, so he accepts. In this case he is guaranteed the $200. If he tells me to just put the bid down for $200, that doesn't guarantee him the whole $200. Maybe it would end at $110. I would still win, but he would be upset that he didn't get the original $200 I offered.
In my way of doing it, I am comfortable with my initial offer, and he is also if he accepts. In your scenario, I could be even more happier if the card sells fro less than my $200 bid, but now the seller is unhappy that he missed out on an additional $90. Isn't this pretty clear??? It is to me. Did you ever hear the song "Go on take the money and run"? That's what is happening here. Possession is 7/10 the law. Or something close to that. Ebay has rules, but as the saying goes, rules are meant to be bent ( broke sounds a bit worse ).
Now AKnot, why don't you help me out and get me some answers. You tell me why so many people are worried that a seller may dodge a Ebat fee here or there when they allow thousands of scammers, cheats, ripoffs, and con artists to deal on their site. These people are a direct reflection of Ebay. I have seen sellers with 90% feedback and over 3,000 deals. All of their negatives are regarding some kind of rip off. "mailed $$$, never sent the card", or "rip off! stay away from this dealer". I know that some buyers could lie, but when a seller has 20-30 of these negative remarks, why does Ebay allow them to continue to sell and rip off their customers?? This is the company that several people on this thread are defending!! Personally, it makes me sick. These are people that have obviously never been taken for their $$$ from a seller on Ebay that they get to watch continue to sell each day because Ebay does nothing about it.
Their rules are way too easy to circumvent. If a rip off seller gets kicked off for taking tons of people's money, he can have another account set up within minutes. Nobody can tell me otherwise.
It comes down to this. The only reason that Ebay allows these bad sellers to keep selling and ripping people off out of product and money is because these very same sellers are pumping money into Ebay's pockets each month. Some of these jerkoff sellers ripoff 1 out of every 20 people they deal with, but they also sell 100 things a week. Do you know how much $$$ that is for Ebay? They are ignorant and terrible at investigating theft or fraud. They are only concerned about the almighty buck. The proof is all over on their site.
So if you think that a seller "screws" Ebay out of $$$ when they end an auction early, just think about the millions ( literally ) of dollars that their customers get screwed out of by $hitty sellers that Ebay represents. And if you are bothered by the fact that you don't have a shot at a card because I agreed to a deal with the seller off line? Hey, life goes on. Haven't you ever had someone step in front of a cab just when you thought you had it? Almost the same thing. If it bothers you, contact Ebay and have them work on this. It will more than likely sit on a file right next to the one I filed over a year ago for reimbursement on a '87 Fleer Barry Bonds that I paid $100 for and was ripped off. When people wake up and realize that Ebay uses us all for our money and could care less about us individually, things may get smoother. As for now, I will use Ebay as means of $$$ also. 95% of the time my auctions run sound, but if I see something i want, I make an offer. Like I said before, the seller could say "NO", right?
TheRoach
Beer Stein
Im talking about an "Auction" in general. If you were at an Auction in person and people were bidding on an object and in the middle of bidding you walked up and whispered an amount in the persons ear, and he took that offer dont you think some people would be upset?
While you cant TELL why a person ended the auction early it still leaves a bad taste in the other bidders mouths when they are thinking they have a "fair shake" and they dont. As for the Taxi comment its people like that, that are "screwing" the world as we know it. You know the people that think they need to have what they want when they want and to hell with everyone else.
What is wrong with driving up the cards price? You either want it or not. If you want it bad enough you would/should put the most amount you are willing to pay for it.
The seller knows (or should know) that he may "loose" out if he does not "sell" accordingly. Meaning if he doesnt put a reserve or expects a card to do better then it should.
Other people that may be interested in that cards "market" value also loose out.
I can honestly say that it has never happened to me (auction being "pulled" while Im activly bidding) but Im going to be selling soon (hopefully) and would/will not cater to outside offers. (Well maybe a BILLLLION dollars)
Again im not saying this because "Ebay" gets skirted. Im saying this because of the people that loose out in getting a card they THOUGHT they had a fair chance at. You know like you stated earlier where you "missed" out on a card. Why did you miss out? Outbidded? Should of bidded higher. Auction "pulled"? Well you got "screwed" on a pulled auction so you figure you will screw others?
As for your other "Ebay" faults. It has to start somewhere, you and others "skirting" Ebay and "sticking" it to the "man" only hurts the hobby and other collectors in general.
So how is this helping anyone but you?
<< <i>
What is wrong with driving up the cards price? You either want it or not. If you want it bad enough you would/should put the most amount you are willing to pay for it.
The seller knows (or should know) that he may "loose" out if he does not "sell" accordingly. Meaning if he doesnt put a reserve or expects a card to do better then it should.
Other people that may be interested in that cards "market" value also loose out.
I can honestly say that it has never happened to me (auction being "pulled" while Im activly bidding) but Im going to be selling soon (hopefully) and would/will not cater to outside offers. (Well maybe a BILLLLION dollars)
Again im not saying this because "Ebay" gets skirted. Im saying this because of the people that loose out in getting a card they THOUGHT they had a fair chance at. You know like you stated earlier where you "missed" out on a card. Why did you miss out? Outbidded? Should of bidded higher. Auction "pulled"? Well you got "screwed" on a pulled auction so you figure you will screw others?
As for your other "Ebay" faults. It has to start somewhere, you and others "skirting" Ebay and "sticking" it to the "man" only hurts the hobby and other collectors in general.
So how is this helping anyone but you? >>
It's helping the seller also. When I buy a card from the seller, he is the only person I am thinking or care about. Do you think that I have you in mind? When you buy a pair of gym shoes do you really stop and think that maybe they were put together in a sweat shop?
It's a dog eat dog world and it sounds like you are going to make a very tasty lunch one day. I could care less about anyone else bidding on the auctions I bid on. In fact, I despise them as potential people who can outbid me.
You guys take this way too far. As far as I know, you are the biggest scammer in the world and a great big liar. At least I am honest and have made deals with others on these boards at one time or another. If you are this gung ho hobby savior, have fun. I don't trim cards, counterfeit, or even pack search. Those to me seem to be a much bigger concern. Why don't you focus your moral and ethic speeches in that direction. Let me guess, sooner or later, I will be doing that to, right?
Priests have great ethics from the way I was brought up, and every other day I am hearing about another one that molested a little kid. What do have to say about that? I don't even know you, but I am supposed to look out for you and let you outbid me? If this was sooo illegal, Ebay would have stopped it by now. They have records of every auction that is ended on a daily basis and the Paypal records showing that someone paid offline. So, you go your way, I'll go mine. I will guarantee you that I get to the finish line first.
Give me one reason to consider everyone else when I am trying to make money? I buy cards from a seller who agrees with my offer. Plain and simple. For as many people as there are bashing this technique, there is just as many ( if not more ) that are on my side.
Good luck in the future Aknot. Your feelings are considered, but at the same time dismissed. There is millions of cards on Ebay on any given day. I don't have the money to buy them all. You act like I owe any members on Ebay something? What have they ever done for me? It's not personal because I don't know any of them personally. Am I part of some secrer collector's society that I need to look out for? Give me a break. I collect cards. I chat on these boards. It's not too complex. If you think you owe everyone on these boards something for some reason, so be it. I like most of the people on these boards, but that doesn't mean that they will stand in the way of me making money for me and my family.
Remember - It's a dog eat dog world. And it is very possible that the same person that taught you a majority of your ethics ( a priest ), also molested some children at one time. I know that is very unfortunate and disturbing, but that is the sick world we live in. I have 2 kids myself and I have learned not to trust too many people these days. Especially people I never met!!
TheRoach
Rules are rules and you admit to "skirting" those rules. Why should I think you dont "skirt" other ones? Just because you are honest about it?
Only time will tell about me. Ive done a little here with others. As for my ethics I learned them from my mother and growing up. I just look at it differently then you. Where as you are "out to get them before they get you" Im a play by the rules and hope that everyone else does also.
Its different if there was a "gray" area but there is not. The "rules" are being broken.
On you being honest THAT I can respect. Or can I? Thats the beauty about being online. People can almost get away with anything, breaking rules, lying, cheating etc. But just because you can does not mean you should.
Hopefully this conversation does not ever deter you from bidding on my auctions nor rejecting an offer I have on one of yours.
Its been stimulating but appears you are set as am I. I hope the people on the "outside" looking in got some information.
<< <i>Hopefully this conversation does not ever deter you from bidding on my auctions nor rejecting an offer I have on one of yours.
Its been stimulating but appears you are set as am I. I hope the people on the "outside" looking in got some information. >>
Trust me, I NEVER take anything on these boards personal. I have 2 kids at home, both boys. One is 2 years, 9 months and the other is 9 months. They give me more headaches than I need. If I let anything said on these boards bother me, I would hang myself.
We just don't see eye to eye. If skipping out on Ebay fees and "depriving" someone else of a card on Ebay here or there makes me a villian on these boards, I will have to live with that. Just believe me when I say that I am not alone on these boards. I am just choosing to admit it because I don't see it as big of a deal as some of you are making it.
I "break" Ebay rules and others on these boards break other rules I'm sure. Some that probably make mine seem like a good deed in comparison. I am an avid collector and would never shy away from anyone's auctions on these boards just because we don't see eye to eye. I really enjoy the debates sometimes.
I respect your interest in the hobby and I wish I could say that everyone agreed with each other and the world was a perfect place to live, but I can't. Breaking an ebay rule is as far as I go unless you count the numerous impure thoughts I have each day. That's just me. I'm a family man, I enjoy the hobby, and I love talking sports.
Let us all know when you start listing. But do me a favor and let me know first so I can make you some side offers. Just kidding. No harm done, none intended. I hope we can all enjoy each other's company and leave our DEEP PERSONAL BELIEFS out of these forums from now on. Half the beauty of these boards and America is the freedom of speech. You can try, but you'll never make eveyone happy. That's something my mother always told me...
Take care Aknot. BTW, good deal on that lot. Looks like you'll make some $$$ on that puppy. I'd be like a pig in $hit rolling around in all of those cards!
TheRoach
<< <i>
<< <i>Take care Aknot. BTW, good deal on that lot. Looks like you'll make some $$$ on that puppy. I'd be like a pig in $hit rolling around in all of those cards!
TheRoach
Well I was......all nekkid like but my wife caught me.....
Cool beans Roach.
<< <i>I'm a family man, I enjoy the hobby, and I love talking sports. >>
Roach
I believe that - this has gone way further than anyone would want - reading between the lines - you are a good guy or you wouldn't have spent that much time discussing it - sociopaths never think they have done anything wrong - I personally have had private contact with Aknot (Jim) and he is genuinely a good guy like yourself.
Mike
<< <i>
I believe that - this has gone way further than anyone would want - reading between the lines - you are a good guy or you wouldn't have spent that much time discussing it - sociopaths never think they have done anything wrong - I personally have had private contact with Aknot (Jim) and he is genuinely a good guy like yourself.
Mike
Thanks Stone. You came onto the boards after me and I remember chatting with you about lots of questions you had. I'll continue to help when I can. You have twice as many posts now! You're all grown up now! Keep it cool and quit with your book length posts, they are driving us nuts! LOL.
TheRoach
<< <i>Keep it cool and quit with your book length posts, they are driving us nuts! LOL. >>
Roach
You must be mixing me up with my evil alterego Stone !93.
Mike