Do you really think eBay, TeleTrade, etc. are dumping grounds for garbage??
keets
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This is something that's mentioned frequently by posters here. While I agree it is used to market some coins with problems and others which have languished in inventories for a while too long, it doesn't seem to be reasonable to make a blanket statement like that.
Recently at a show I attended, I overheard two dealers discussing a coin during set-up on Sunday. Dealer "A" was asking Dealer "B" his opinion of a certain coin with regard to it's problems and his inability to sell it and recoup his investment. At conversations end it was evident that he would be listing it with eBay and hoping to sell problems and all to a buyer who couldn't see it in hand, so no doubt that sort of thing happens. What I found disturbing about the whole thing was that rather than admit he had made a mistake in his initial assessment/purchase and just sell and get on with things, he assumes he needs to profit at all times. Poor thought and even poorer ethical decision in my book, but that's how some dealers operate.
With all that said, let's turn our attention to the Legend Bust Dollar being talked about in another thread. While I quite obviously can't afford to own a coin like that, I found it quite stunning in all the different images offered. Further, it doesn't seem like Legend is trying to dupe anybody here, that just isn't their style in any degree, yet mention was made that they should have described the quite obvious "fingerprint" in the description!! Without knowing how long this seller has had the coin or their reasons for listing it at eBay, which is IMHO the wrong place to try to sell a coin of that staure, do you still think eBay is just a dumping ground that sellers use?? Or do you consider it a legitimate venue for legitimate sellers?? And what of that Bust Dollar, is it being listed there for sale or for exposure??
I always assume that there are varying reasons why these auction sites are used and that not all have crooked motives behind them. Don't you think that quality coins are marketed at them by smart sellers who know what they're doing??
Al H.
Recently at a show I attended, I overheard two dealers discussing a coin during set-up on Sunday. Dealer "A" was asking Dealer "B" his opinion of a certain coin with regard to it's problems and his inability to sell it and recoup his investment. At conversations end it was evident that he would be listing it with eBay and hoping to sell problems and all to a buyer who couldn't see it in hand, so no doubt that sort of thing happens. What I found disturbing about the whole thing was that rather than admit he had made a mistake in his initial assessment/purchase and just sell and get on with things, he assumes he needs to profit at all times. Poor thought and even poorer ethical decision in my book, but that's how some dealers operate.
With all that said, let's turn our attention to the Legend Bust Dollar being talked about in another thread. While I quite obviously can't afford to own a coin like that, I found it quite stunning in all the different images offered. Further, it doesn't seem like Legend is trying to dupe anybody here, that just isn't their style in any degree, yet mention was made that they should have described the quite obvious "fingerprint" in the description!! Without knowing how long this seller has had the coin or their reasons for listing it at eBay, which is IMHO the wrong place to try to sell a coin of that staure, do you still think eBay is just a dumping ground that sellers use?? Or do you consider it a legitimate venue for legitimate sellers?? And what of that Bust Dollar, is it being listed there for sale or for exposure??
I always assume that there are varying reasons why these auction sites are used and that not all have crooked motives behind them. Don't you think that quality coins are marketed at them by smart sellers who know what they're doing??
Al H.
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I think there's a little of both going on in these venues. On the one hand, you have to consider that there's a helluva lot of garbage coins on Ebay and Teletrade. These come from dealers, collectors, and the uninitiated. I think there are gems to be found if you look hard enough, but these are usually the exception rather than the rule. The coins that I would consider the cream of the crop, hardly if ever, show up on Ebay or Teletrade, unless they are there for a reason. My thinking is that it's mainly for exposure. So you take the whole thing in with a grain of salt and keep the old addage in mind, "if it's a great coin, a savvy dealer will already know who to market it to".
People use Ebay for amny reasons. The main reason is to sell a coin. Ebay as we know can be used for selling other things for whatever reason they have to sell the item (Mike Caspers socks for example).
there are alot of people who are happy to collect stuff like this. Not all of us
can afford an AU+ set of large cents, but if you settle for corroded, holed or
worn, you can put together a full set on a budget.
I think what you are getting at though is the practice of deception I see over
and over again (and have been a victim of): a problem coin is listed with no
mention of the problem, a poor blurry picture and an iffy return policy. Buyers
have the following options in these cases:
1. if in doubt don't bid - the price reflects the amount of information you are
given
2. if no mention of a return/refund policy, avoid - the refund should include
all fees and costs (otherwise its not a refund but an obstacle). Buyers
should ALWAYS return bad coins: it's the only way to keep sellers honest
in their information
3. Use the feedback. Note: the feedback mechanism is flawed. There is no
way to scan feedbacks for just the negatives or neutrals (something ebay
should provide). Sellers have the option of retaliating, which makes buyers
gun shy. The 3 feedback grades don't really convey the details of a
transaction, they are too course.
The other major problem with ebay that I see is the whole notion of a time-limited
auction. Buyers are sometimes forced to make poor decisions as the clock runs
down. A system more like an open market (with bid/ask) would probably work
better for coins.
Just my thoughts.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
what i find startling about references of "dumping ground" and "garbage" with regards to the various online auction sites is this------have proponents of that thinking ever truly walked the floor of any show, from the F.U.N. or ANA size shows down to the local 30-50 table shows, and not seen exactly the same thing?? my experience with shows and the online auction sites is that they are essentially mirror images of each other with coins running the gamut from exceptional to trash at each. at the show where the first paragraph conversation took place, i purchased one medal and two Ike dollars from the 40 table assemblage because the pickings were that slim. there are times when i search eBay and the quality is so good that my "Watching File" is overloaded and i need to save in favorites. and vice versa.
al h.
I list coins on ebay because I have few other options. I'm not a dealer, can't get to all the shows and it's cheap/convenient. I'll try it a time or two before consigning a coin to a dealer. I've had some success doing so.
A dealer that DOESN"T use ebay to their advantage is missing the boat, IMHO. It gives the dealer world-wide exposure for 3-4 bucks and directs traffic to their web site - - try doing that through any other medium.
here, since I'm still trying to learn how to photograph coins with no luck so far.
I'f this was just some dealers junk I'd like to see a better one! The coin looks even better than the image!
Don
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
Another thing about Ebay - I believe the traditional, old-time dealer is likely to be bitter about the Ebay phenomenom, somewhat like what is still occasionally heard about slabs. No longer is he the only outlet for collectors buying and selling their coins. He has competition. So rather than try to take advantage of the computer age, he badmouths the whole thing.
I see tons of crap on eBay, and I have also gotten many great coins. They are in the minority of coins listed there.
for "garbage". I think the pictures of the coins are quite good and
representative of the coins that they sell. "ebay" excepted. Many
people use these sites for marketing reasons, as well as, the
sale of a coin. Laura has even mentioned a coin or two that she
had on ebay resulted in "no sale" and they sell at coin show
auctions for even more than she listed them for. Ebay is subjected
to the "slease" factor in a seller. "Shilling" which is legal in some
states NY for one, is always a problem. Teletrade has reserves
so? You don't like that coin and you don't buy it.
A real dumping ground? Some of the low life dealers that you
meet at the coin shows selling raw coins with that abrasive,
domineering attitude of "I know what's right". I have seen many
threads here complaining about those kind of dealers.
Laura's coin? Do any of you know what it is like trying to sell
a $10,000 coin? Let alone a coin valued at $350,000???
I know I do, when it comes to $10,000 coins. It is not easy to get
the price. No matter what the coin is in seems dealers want to
chissel. e.g. Grant star has die polish is in MS65 holder PCGS
beautiful tone at perimeters. What do we hear about? The die
polish. THEY COME THAT WAY! But we gotta hear it. Hawaiian in
65 has green toning ewwe "puky green toning" Which is?
Indicitive of the hoard of them from "the bank of Hawaii".
The way I see it someone with a coin worth $350k has the
balls to buy it in the first place and will use all avenues to
Market it.
Teletrade, Heritiage, which I got major league burned by, and
Ebay all have return policies to one degree or another. If you
don't like that coin then don't buy it, don't bid. Dumping grounds
are everywhere. Including Robert Swan's collection sale by B&M
at Baltimore and American Rarities Sale on the 10th of March
just before Baltimores show. They both had huge dump lots in
the sessions ends of the catalogs. If I am wrong about this try
not to flame. Just think; "oh well, nevermind" LOL Regards, Mike
So far as the $350,000 dollar with the fingerprint goes...I have no idea why a coin like that would be listed on eBay.
I have been burned and I have had good luck on ebay. In fact, the only negative feedback I have received was from a guy who over-graded a couple coins and did not provide very good pictures. I asked to return them and he refused. Basically he said I could not grade but his over-grading was very obvious (this was a circulated coin, not Unc.)
Anyway, I now will bid only on coins that have very clear pictures and are offered by sellers who offer return privileges. I believe these are the honest dealers on there and wish to expand their clientele. I also review the feedback but this can burn you as a lot of buyers are not experienced enough to tell what grade they actually bought.
To answer your question, yes, there are a lot of sellers "dumping" garbage on there. On the other hand, some of this garbage may fit the need and if it is obtained for a fair price, it is fine. It is the sleaze bags that over-grade their coins, don't send the one pictured and will not allow returns that should be band from ebay and should be shunned by the collecting community.
I couldn't agree with you more. At the last couple of shows that I've been to, I've been thoroughly dissapointed to see basically the same common stuff that you see every day. I can only recall one coin that I was really taken aback by, and when I inquired it about it, it had already been sold. A lot of times you find the same thing happening on Ebay. Lots of stuff - but very few if any coins that you're genuinely interested in. Certainly your tastes and pocketbook play a role in the equation, but for me, as I'm sure for a lot of people on here, if there is a particular coin that I'm just dying to get, there are a few dealers that I'll make inquiries with to get it. I won't count on Ebay to happen to have what I happen to be looking for at any particular time.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The crap to gem ratio >>
Boy that is a good one!
I've sold numerous coins on Ebay that I purchased at major auctions and they certainly weren't overgraded crap. I've also purchased some nice gems from Ebay and Teletrade and likewise ended up with some dogs from the major auction company. This issue is not as simple as some would like us to believe.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It is the same as the C/G ratio on Ebay. 99% crap >1% gem
Glen
good objective replies and some food for thought in how others look at things. most enjoyable.
oh yeah, i almost forgot, we have another Russ-ism------the crap to gem ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!
al h.
<< <i>Teletrade also images every coin and gives an unbiased opinion of it >>
Russ, NCNE
i saw that also, and resisted comment. the part of TeleTrade that i think is better than eBay, though, is the consistency of the pictures, but that's fodder for another thread.
al h.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
I think E-Bay is fine for casting a wide net for selling just about anything. However, if you are not buying a generic item, it is best to find someone, or some people you can work with and do business that way.
When I needed a printer for the office, I decided what make and model to get, and went on the
internet & shopped price. If you want nice coins, you cannot buy them like that. Unless you're looking for something like an 81 S Morgan in PC 5, coins are not generic.
Sure, there is plenty of nasty material on the bourse floors and to some degree, at major auctions, but I think you'll find more nice material at these venues than on E-Bay and Teletrade. You don't have to pay top $ at auctions. You set your price limit, and if someone else wants the coin more than you do, oh well.
Plus, one must consider the time factor perusing E-Bay and Teletrade. For me, time is very scarce.
I can go through an entire auction catalogue in 10 minutes & decide whether anything interests me.
Can't say the same re E-Bay offerings.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Keeping in mind that I'm only talking about pre 1964 not the modern coins...... I would also say that I have yet to find or buy a quality Walker in the upper grades that I collect, and there is a 1945 PCGS ms67, (Ebay #3903729238), that's been listed for the 3rd time by a well known Ebay seller/dealer at a "buy it now" price of $3500.00..... If this were a quality coin are even solid for the grade it would have sold with the first listing by me if no one else! Frankly I don't see how the coin got the ms67 grade! So yes there is alot of dumping on Ebay to say the least of "crap" coins.
What I have seen offered that has more "quality than crap" is usually a collector selling a coin, or coins, from their collection for one reason or another........ The quality coins offered by most of the larger dealers inparticular usually have a fixed price on the coin, so this is actually not an auction but just the dealers venue of advertising their coins, which is pretty smart business to me in my opinion.
Elcontador,
That's a good point. I watch very little TV, so I spend many evenings looking at auction listings on Heritage, Teletrade, and Ebay. For me it's recreation. A good return policy, good feedback, and acceptance of credit cards or escrow make Ebay a credible venue for relatively inexpensive coins, but it takes lots of time and energy to find a pearl.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>... there is only one coin shop in town and it never seems to be open....
>>
do you live in oswego , IL ?
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Once one realizes that the "quality" of any population is largely about bell curves, the implications can be profound. >>
.riGht..
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
MYSTERY LOT OLD MASON JAR OF COINS!+ 1DIAMOND
<< <i>We have found many old jars in a barn... the jars contain old coins and other unusual items. >>
Now, look at the contents. Everything from Large Cents to Kennedy Half Dollars to Bicentennial coins to Ancient Roman Coins. Hum, what a find. It is funny they won't ship you the jar though.
All the coins I sell are PCGS graded and carry a returns rule.
Without eBay I would not be able to buy or sell a wide selection of coins.
Web: www.tonyharmer.org
A site dedicated to the sale of rare and high MS grade Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. All coins are graded by ICG, PCGS, NGC, or Anacs, and are priced well below PCGS values.
<< <i>So inform yourself beforehand, or be sorry afterwards. >>
I decided to give up on putting together a fairly high quality PCGS PR Jeff set after acquiring many of them from both eBay and Heritage. As I thought I was familiar with Heritage, I sent them all off for their Bullet Sale #337 held early January. Thought I would make a little profit or at least get my money back, but lost over 25% of my interest. Did I overpay for them in the first place? Not according to PCGS Price Index (as flawed as it may or may not be).
I think most of the disparity came from two issues I had to deal with. The first is that if you put a reserve on your coins and you end up being "high bidder" on them, then you have to pay a 10% premium to get them back. The other issue (which I admit I should have checked into beforehand) is their scans/pics of consignors coins. It isn't enough anymore just to have a good description. People now-a-days want to see a coin as close to in-hand as possible. Heritage attempts at this are dismal, and toward that end, I hold them somewhat responsible for the hammer prices on my Jeffs. And, of course, you must accept that hammer price if you do not put a reserve up.
If you think I am wrong about their pics, see for yourself. Go thru their archives for this auction and ck out lots 30645, 30651, 30658, 30661, 30667, 30670, 30677, 30679, 30683, 30684, 30687. This is only 12 of the 30 I had there.
Some of you may argue the hammer on a few (or all---doesn't matter). My point is the pics. Gems, Cam and DCams looking more like MS. It would have been very easy for me to have sent them a SanDisk with my shots of them for Heritage to use, but that isn't allowed.
"Sorry afterwards" is an understatement. And sorry for the rant, Al. certifiedsilverdollar's last sentence really hit home for me.