Whats this I read about the first dollar minted found?

Placid

On the news crawl it says the first dollar minted was found. No details about it though

Russ

You sure it didn't say something about RGL still having the first dollar he ever earned?

Russ, NCNE

jbsteven

isn't that the one Rare Coin Wholesellers own?

if so it was probably a press release of some kind to drum up interest in the coin.

Placid

DENVER (AP) — Currency experts say they have identified a 210-year-old silver dollar that could be the first one coined by the United States Mint.

The dollar will be on display at the American Numismatic Association Money Museum in Colorado Springs, Colo.
By David Zalubowski, AP

The American Numismatic Association, a currency organization based in Colorado Springs, told The Associated Press on Sunday it planned to put the coin on public display beginning in mid-April.

Experts said it's impossible to say for certain that the coin was the very first U.S. silver dollar struck, but its details are so crisp that it certainly was among the first.

"Until someone walks up to me with a coin in an earlier state that looks better, I'd consider it the first," said John Dannreuther, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service.

Unlike the other roughly 130 surviving U.S. dollars minted in 1794, the silver dollar is in mint condition, according to evaluations performed by Professional Coin Grading Service and Numismatic Guaranty Corp.

The coin, which has only a few scratches, features images of Lady Liberty ringed with stars on the front and an eagle on the back.

Steven Contursi, owner of Rare Coin Wholesalers, bought the coin last year from an unidentified owner and said he spent "multimillions." It is insured for $10 million.

The dealer who sold Contursi the dollar — not realizing it could be the first of its kind — has since offered him a $2 million profit on it.

But it's not for sale, Contursi said: "I think it's a national treasure," he said.

Contursi traveled to Denver on Sunday with security guards to show it to an Associated Press reporter.

The Mint struck 1,758 silver dollars on Oct. 15, 1794, at a time when foreign currencies circulated freely in the United States and the country wanted its own standard to use in world trade.

Russ

<< <i>Unlike the other roughly 130 surviving U.S. dollars minted in 1794, the silver dollar is in mint condition >>



Huh? PCGS has graded six in mint state, with two of those being MS66. I wonder how they can possibly claim this is the first minted? It would seem to me that the MS66 examples would have to be damned nice in every way.

I hope Cardinal drops by with some input.

Russ, NCNE

RGL

Hey!

itsnotjustme

From CNN

Russ

HMM... Graded as a Specimen. In that case, it is the one and only. It'd be nice to hear the technical details that prompted that designation.

Russ, NCNE

Blade

Russ,
I'm pretty sure these are the pics for that coin. I'm almost positive I lifted this from one of Cardinal's threads. It's not MS66... it's graded Special Proof 66 by PCGS. And there are none like it.

Russ

<< <i>it's graded Special Proof 66 by PCGS. >>



OOPS! I thought SP was Specimen.

Russ, NCNE

Sunnywood

The coin in question is the Amon Carter specimen of the 1794 flowing hair dollar. It was not "recently discovered." The coin has been well-known for many decades, and has resided in several famous collections. The only "news" here is that the marketing machine run by Steve Contursi under his "Rare Coin Wholesalers" (RCW) banner has decided to play up the coin and market it in a new way, by saying that the condition and die state are indicative of a first strike. That is not a particularly surprising or enlightening claim to those already familiar with this specimen. The coin was always fabulous, before anyone tried to put this additional spin on it.

There are high-grade "specimen" examples (prooflike in appearance and manufacture) known for other early issues as well, such as some of the early coppers. What is remarkable is how the little brochure put together by RCW tries to argue that the coin should be worth more than the 1933 double eagle. Well, hey, there's nothing new about hype and puffery, right? But this is not a new discovery.

Best,
Sunnywood

tjkillian

Now that's a coin I'd like to get in my change

Tom

Placid

I was wondering how they got pcgs to grade it so fast
I would think the ana would use ngc if they were to have such a coin slabbed.

Discovered is a term that can be mean that someone just found out about it. Like Columbus discovered America.

Blade

Russ,
You are right - brain slip on my part - SP is Specimen.

For early coins, the designation is generally meant to be an early Proof, since the US Mint did not officially use the Proof process until the 1830's. But there are numerous early issues that had proof-like techniques... polished dies, multiple strikes (cranks actually). These were generally thought to be presentation pieces.

kieferscoins

<< <i>The American Numismatic Association, a currency organization based in Colorado Springs >>



Currency organization? I don't think so.

Cameron Kiefer

goose3

Fox News also has something on their channel on the "ticker" about this.

They are fair and balanced you know.

kranky

SP = Specimen, last I knew.

I've not seen the coin, but I believe it has some significant adjustment marks. Also, there is nothing to support the claim that this is the "first" dollar coin except that (paraphrasing) "it looks like what we think the first dollar coin would look like". On one hand the coin supposedly shows that it was made with great care. So why the adjustment marks?

Here's a coin that was probably bought and sold a number of times in the last 200 years. All of a sudden, it becomes the first dollar coin? Just a little too much hype here for my tastes.

I have no doubt it's a very nice coin. It doesn't need the hype.

Sunnywood

kranky,

Agreed, the coin is nice & doesn't need any more hype. The die state is very early, as John Dannreuther commented. I have examined the coin myself, on two separate occasions, and it is quite stellar. The first time I saw the coin, RCW did not yet own it. I saw the coin again after they began hyping it as the first silver dollar ever minted. Guess what - it looked pretty much the same as the first time I saw it !! Oh, by the way, the first silver ever minted under federal authority would have been the exceedingly rare silver specimens of the Continental Dollar. (Cf. the recent Stack's auction of Part I of the John J. Ford collection).

The bit about the first dealer offering to buy it back for $2MM more, and the comment that "the coin is not for sale" because it is a "national treasure" ... well, that's all pretty entertaining. You mean RCW just bought it to admire it? They have no interest in selling it? I suppose that explains why they put together a brochure arguing that the coin should be worth more than $10 million !!!

Best,
Sunnywood

Russ

<< <i>All of a sudden, it becomes the first dollar coin? Just a little too much hype here for my tastes. >>



Exactly what I was thinking, Kranky.

Sunnywood,

Thanks for the additional info.

Russ, NCNE

LUCKOFTHEIRISH

If it doesn't leak I don't want it!!

Conder101

<< <i>On one hand the coin supposedly shows that it was made with great care. So why the adjustment marks? >>


And why make a specimen striking on a plugged planchet? I would think that if you were creating a specimen type striking to show off your very first dollar coin, that demonstrated your sovereigncy, that you would select the best planchet you had, not a plugged one with adjustment marks.

kranky

I'm with you, Conder.

If you or I owned that coin, do you think we could still get all those high-profile experts to support the claim that it was the "first silver dollar"?

I understand that puffery is the norm, but come on. There isn't a shred of evidence to back up the "first silver dollar" claim.

RCW's press release said "It was probably handled by President George Washington, Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson and Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton". Based on what? "This coin was most likely part of the Original Mint Cabinet Collection and was traded for Washingtonia merchandise in the mid 1800's." Again, based on what?

I think there needs to be some accountability for such far-reaching claims. I don't care if it is or isn't the first silver dollar, but the numismatic community should demand some proof for a claim like this. If it can't be supported, then some of the big-name scholars ought to say that it's only a theory, and not let such a story become "fact".

Nap

<< <i>"Until someone walks up to me with a coin in an earlier state that looks better, I'd consider it the first," said John Dannreuther, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service. >>



I take issue with this statement.

What does "looking better" have to do with being first in number? The first 1794 dollar may very well be in AG-3 and have a hole through the top. What makes it the first are the diagnostics that can determine such things. I am no expert on such things, but some people are. Perhaps once a coin is no longer uncirculated such observations cannot be made. But that's still no reason to say that condition has anything to do with priority.

Placid

What makes it identifiable as a specimen?

nankraut

Another GREAT thread, and informative. These are the types of threads that make me read and respond to this forum.